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3988 , Hino or cummins?-gctid353309

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    3988 , Hino or cummins?-gctid353309

    Hi All, we are activly looking for our next boat and the 3988 is near the top of the list ... there are a lot for sale right now in our price range {around 120k} I found a really nice older one with 310 Hinos and of course the newer ones with 270 and up Cummins. So.... manicoolers not withstanding, looking for advice.

    Thanks very much

    #2
    We just went through this very same dilemma with the purchase of our 4788

    My research and years of hearing about the Hino engines lead me to believe that they are a very good industrial engine.

    I could find nothing wrong with them.

    That said, we decided to limit our search to boats with the cummins engines mostly because we felt that long term parts and support would be easier with the cummins units.

    There is another factor to consider. The actual selling price of the same boat with the same options, in the same condition WILL be less for the boat with Hino engines than the Cummins engines. That savings might just represent a very good bargain.

    KEVIN SANDERS
    4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
    www.transferswitch4less.com

    where are we right now?

    https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Kevin, Yes the price could make the decision... so much to consider,electronics,canvas, etc. Also want one with the hardtop. Anyway it is fun to look with the knowlege that if the right one falls to hand we are ready to buy.

      PS has anyone added more fresh water tankage to the 3988? 100 gallons is not enough for our style of cruising {anchoring out}.

      Cheers, Gary

      Comment


        #4
        When considering boats here's the cost of some common "options" to consider. These are the costs to us on our 4788.

        Forced air diesel heat parts $7400 labor $7000

        Watermaker 160 GPD parts $4200 labor $2700

        Used Zodiac YL 340 tender with 30 hp honda $6500

        Furuno Navnet VX2 package with open array radar, and two 10" displays $9,000 labor $2300 (I already had the system but thats what one costs new)

        autopilot $6200 parts and labor.

        Thats real money I had to pay out of pocket to put these options on my boat.

        KEVIN SANDERS
        4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
        www.transferswitch4less.com

        where are we right now?

        https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

        Comment


          #5
          Hello Islandmech,

          "Hi All, we are activly looking for our next boat and the 3988 is near the top of the list ... there are a lot for sale right now in our price range {around 120k} I found a really nice older one with 310 Hinos and of course the newer ones with 270 and up Cummins. So.... manicoolers not withstanding, looking for advice."

          Fact is the either colored engine will serve you more than adequately if it is propped correctly and reasonably serviced. Once you see a both you are comparing please secure the exact engine that is in there since brokers often report inacurate engine applications (ie - 310 hino vs 210, 270 cummins vs 315).

          A few facts include:

          - Earlier models have Hinos as they changed over to Cummins at one point in time

          - Warranties on engines can have a great value if any are available on ones you look at

          - Newer boats tend to be more expensive so your more expensive boats will tend to have Cummins

          - Most folks think that the inline 6 cyl engines are a better 'fit' for that boat than the 4's(Cummins or Hinos)

          - The Hino engines in those models (WO6 series) are still very common on their road counterparts today

          - On Hino marine specific parts look out for Manicooler and exhaust as bigger ticket items (both are available now)

          - On Cummins marine specific parts look out for RWP's and Intercoolers (upgraded non stock replacements are available)

          On Hino's consider consulting the Hino Guru Earl on purchase questions/service (this board)

          On Cummins consider consulting Tony Athens at Sbmar.com or boatdiesel.com

          For those of us which have had both powerplants the Hino's tend to be a bit more robust but both would benifit from having turbo and boost gages installed to monitor their respective loads. Prop correctly and tend to them with reasonable maintenance and either will serve you well.

          Hope this helps
          Northport NY

          Comment


            #6
            I have had both. Hinos are great after maintaining manicoolers and risers. Parts are readily available and any competent diesel mechanic can work on them. Bayliner quit installing them in 1995/96 so any newer will make the engine decision for you. The 95's initially had the swim grid too low. It dragged in the water, was always wet and was prone to water absorption. They raised it quickly. The hull/deck joint improved between 98 and 99 (if my memory works). I suspect a 39 in the $120 range will require a very thorough inspection.
            1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'

            Comment


              #7
              islandmech wrote:
              Hi All, we are activly looking for our next boat and the 3988 is near the top of the list ... there are a lot for sale right now in our price range {around 120k} I found a really nice older one with 310 Hinos and of course the newer ones with 270 and up Cummins. So.... manicoolers not withstanding, looking for advice.

              Thanks very much
              When we first started looking several years ago, we had the same questions. After looking at many, we learned that all things were not equal. For example, in the later models, with Cummins 330HP Bayliner beefed up the the transmissions and increased the shaft size from 1-3/4" to 2". Our decision was to go with 330HP Cummins with the heavier running gear, and better resale potential, since we assumed others would value these features as well. All the other options mentioned earlier are then added to this foundation. We are still convinced we made the right decision.

              Hope this helps.

              Comment


                #8
                Hello Nakalat

                "Bayliner beefed up the the transmissions and increased the shaft size from 1-3/4" to 2"."

                The larger shafts, cutlass and trans were coupled with all of the higher hp engine combinations. It turns out there were very few of the higher hp Hino's involved as that was the time period the conversion to Cummins was made.

                Hope this helps
                Northport NY

                Comment


                  #9
                  smitty477 wrote:
                  Hello Nakalat

                  "Bayliner beefed up the the transmissions and increased the shaft size from 1-3/4" to 2"."

                  The larger shafts, cutlass and trans were coupled with all of the higher hp engine combinations. It turns out there were very few of the higher hp Hino's involved as that was the time period the conversion to Cummins was made.

                  Hope this helps
                  Hi Smitty

                  We never did see any of the higher HP Hino's in our quest so we were not able to compare, and the later models looked like a better choice. Thanks for the info.

                  With regards to the water tank question, we don't normally anchor for more than a week, and find that the boat tankage is adequate, even with vacuflush which uses fresh water. We have thought of adding a 20 gal tank under the forward berth for longer excursions though, but that is further down on the project list.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    All things equal (which they never are) ... I would pick the Cummins powered boat but that is not to say that the Hino isn't a good engine, just that you can't go anywhere without finding someone that has parts for b-series cummins. The boats are also newer, and they are still being used in one form or another today. Hinos were not marinized for long and at some point there will be no support of parts.
                    1999 Sandpiper Pilothouse - Current
                    1989 3888 - 2011-2019, 1985 Contessa - 2005-2011, 1986 21' Trophy 1998-2005
                    Nobody gets out alive.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      We have had our 3988 with Cummins 270 HP for 6 years now and we think it is a great boat.I added a 35 gallon water tank on the startboard side of the boat by the engine and tied it into the main fill line with valves to switch from the main tank to the 35 gallon tank when filling.We get water from the 35 gallonn tank with a hand pump at the kitchen sink.This system worked great for us but I installed a watermaker and took it out(tank is for sale)

                      We also though about a hard top but after inclosing the bridge with a soild windshield we are glad we do not have one, the back of the boat is the only spot you can seat and be in the direct sun and out of the wind.

                      Good luck with your search . I am in Victoria and the boat is at Canoe Cove

                      Jim

                      Comment


                        #12
                        FWIW - Although there are a number af areas where we can talk about Bayliner problems from a practical standpoint we have seen no issues related to shaft of cutlass failures that were not directly associated with a very hard grounding or a very incorrect prop assembly.

                        The entire Bayliner Mty series 'suffered' from overpropping form ealry to late 90's and even into 2002. This was mostly a direct result of marketing a 'fast' boat with the 'best' dead empty brand new boat test data. It was not long till the heavier loads, warmer temps, and slightly fouled bottoms began to overtax the engines. The 47 and 39 were pretty good examples of this when they 'tried' huge props and then added a larger reduction gear to achieve a higher speed. At one point the 47 even had 26 X 26 props with a 2.5:1 gear along with its Hino engines.

                        Therefore the choices for shafting became issues as the formulaes for shafting and transmissions are more stressed with higher reduction gears and larger props.

                        Somewhere around 1999 you could get a 39 with the 1.75 shafts and the 330's but they did swap over to the 2" shafts right after that for the 330's and up. Adding to the complication of 'settling in' on the best prop / shaft combination for these boats the 39 came with a very large amount of engine options over the years (Varied gas, varied diesel manu.,varied diesel sizes, etc) as well as the HP rating variations between the Cumins and Hino's

                        Long story short for the OP is that you should not have any problems with shafting, gears, or the like as long as they have been maintained.

                        You SHOULD worry about the possibility that the vessel was overpropped at one point in its life especially with the Cummins engines.

                        Here are a few data sheets for Bayliner from 1999 and 2000 showing the shafting option and some of the engine options for the 39 Bayliner

                        Hope this helps

                        Sorry - cannot upload the data sheets, error says too large a file.
                        Northport NY

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Two things that would make me choose Hino again:

                          Earl - he comes to your boat and gets things done. This is hard to find in any field. There is no BS and his costs are reasonable. It is my opinion that this is significant enough to bias engine choice.

                          If you mention Cummins to pickup truck drivers they are usually enthusiastic. Hino, never heard of it.

                          If you mention Hino to people who drive diesel vehicles for a living, bus drivers, truck drivers, they usually say something like "good engines".

                          This information is anecdotal and is only my opinion.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            smitty477 wrote:
                            You SHOULD worry about the possibility that the vessel was overpropped at one point in its life especially with the Cummins engines.
                            This is probably the single most important issue to consider when purchasing a large Bayliner MY.

                            It is probably single most overlooked issue as well.

                            for example on a 4788 with Cummins 330's...

                            IF you have the stock 24X24 props AND the boat has been run mostly at a fast cruise, you WILL have a significantly reduced engine life.

                            There is no way for the buyer to tell if this is the case. An engine survey by Cummins themselves WILL NOT find this out.

                            An engine survey will tell you whether the engine is within service limits. It is not a crystal ball as to past overloading.

                            KEVIN SANDERS
                            4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                            www.transferswitch4less.com

                            where are we right now?

                            https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks for the advice everyone . I am familiar with the issues regarding over propping, like someone said, you are buying the previous owner as much as the boat.. We crawled around a 4087 today and the Admiral likes the aft cabin arrangement mmmmm. Maybe changing our thinking, how about opinions on the 4087 or maybe the 4387.? I found the layout of the 4087 pretty ingenious but everything is very tight, and quite a small salon. The boat we looked at had no gen set or aux heat so would need some things but it only has 400 hrs on the 330 Cummins and one owner etc.

                              Decisions , decisions

                              Comment

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