Potential new 38xx owner

[Flyin1500]

Howdy y'all!
First time caller, long time listener. I've been interested in bigger Bayliners for about a year now. Almost pulled the trigger on a 32xx last year that fell through, and am now in the
market for a 38xx. I did the 38xx search and found an amazing amount of information and love it. I'm looking at a 3888 today and know from reading things to keep an eye out for
(manicooler coolant, soft spots, radar arches, etc ) and plan on a survey if things go well, but beyond the obvious anything else? Also I came across a post maybe about a year ago
that someone had detailed about yearly maintenance items etc for their boat and can't find it again. So let me ask this? What $$$ do you set aside and for what maintenance down the road?
Bottom paint? (just curious as to about how much that might cost and how often? I think it was done 2 years ago on the boat I'm looking at) Zincs? How much and how often? Oil changes and filters?
Coolant? I read every 2 years, but how much coolant is required? Trying to set up a spreadsheet for a budget to figure out how much I can afford. Oh this boat has the 175 hino's. Here is the
link to the boat: https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1989...yacht-7559045/

Thanks!
F1500

[purduepilot]

There are several threads like this on the forum already if you search for them, you might find info from people who are no longer active.

Boat yards usually publish their rates (dollars per foot) for bottom paint. If you're in Tacoma then look at Gig Harbor Boatyard, Hylebos, and CSR Marine (with CSR you have to call for rates).

Hino database has a wealth of information. I think you're looking at the 6 cylinder EH700 normally aspirated version.
https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...-hino-database

Fluids and other consumables certainly cost money, but I think they're pretty cheap compared to everything else you need to consider. My annual boat budget is $26k and only 3% of that will go to oil and coolant changes.

Coolant capacity is around 7 gallons each engine plus whatever for the water heater and associated hoses (around 2 gallons extra on my boat).
I'm paying about $18 + tax at Napa for concentrated coolant. Small discount with AAA membership. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NAFHD1GAL
So a coolant change costs me about $160. A 6 month interval is recommended by manufacturer, but I think a lot of people go 1-2 years. My previous owner went many many years (on the wrong coolant, no less) and my cooling system was full of mud. Still unknown if we have any manicooler or liner damage. Planning to pull manicoolers this spring for ceramic coating.

Oil, oil filters, belts, and impellers aren't cheap, either. 10-11 quarts each engine, so about 5 gallons at $20/gal = $100 in oil (Delo 400 15w40). Filters are like $35/each. So 170 for oil change every 120 hours.

And all of these costs pale in comparison to the cost of hiring maintenance/repair work done ($100+/hr) or upgrading electronics or replacing a toilet or whatever else breaks.

I think (hope!) the first year is the most expensive as you go down your punch list replacing all the broken parts the previous owner left for you and just generally making the boat "yours".

I just got my boat in December, and this is what I'm budgeting for 2021 to "stay afloat". I just have a dedicated account for the boat that I put $1000 into every paycheck and I use that account to pay the boat bills. Hopefully it grows over time so we can pay for future upgrades and big repairs.

Category	Monthly	Annual
Moorage	$600	$7200
Electric	$50	$600
Fuel and transient moorage	$250	$3000
To Maintenance Reserves	$1000	$12,000
Insurance	$110	$1320
Stickers	$50	$600
Totals	$2110	$25,320

[purduepilot]

Just discovered you can get NAPA Gold filters on www.fleetfilter.com for like half the price of going to the NAPA store. Just ordered myself a dozen oil filters and a dozen fuel filters for $280 or so with shipping. Should keep me going for a few years.

[Flyin1500]

Thanks for the info Brad.
Just took a look at the boat. Good bones. Current owner had "everything" done at the last haul out 2 years ago(fluids change and bottom paint). He said he was running the pink antifreeze, I couldn't check because engine was warm and didn't want pink spray. This boat appears to be a deal, but just from what I saw, it'll be a lot of work, which I don't mind. Cheers!

F1500

[Pcpete]

There are no “deals” on boats. The price listed looks okay based IMO. Remember the rule “if it looks too good to be true, it is”.
Brads $50/mo for stickers would include the state excise tax and registration plus the customs sticker.

[Flyin1500]

Hey Brad,

$50/mo for stickers? I'm not sure what that is? Also, one other thing about the boat I found interesting, it has the Onan gen that turns over and doesn't start. When the current owner
surveyed it the survey said it would start at the generator but not at the helm. I'm guessing that's just an easy fix? Maybe? Thanks.

F1500

[purduepilot]

Excise tax and registration fees. Annual item; just like to amortize my budgets to see monthly cash flow.

[Grego]

My Onan was hard to start, a new battery solved that.

Grego

[Pcpete]

Welcome! We love our 3818. Looking at the pictures there are some good things, one confusing item and then the if I were buying it things. The confusion thing is that some of the pictures show a dinghy davit system and others don’t, I’d nail that down. It’s a couple of thousand for the type in some of the pictures. Items I see that are bringing the price down and are relatively easy to cleanup and update. The interior is pretty well original and may need some refurbishing. That’s mostly visual stuff that you may want to live with as you get accustomed to the boat. The command bridge furniture is rough and the go to replacement is pontoon boat furniture. I did mine for a couple of boat bucks. Reworking the windshields in the enclosure is going to be interesting. It may be able to have new vinyl sewn in saving the picture frame, zippers and fitting. The gauge faces can be repaired, but may cost as much as new ones.
Have Earl Summerville [email protected] do at least a virtual survey of the engines. He is probably the most knowledgeable Hino Mechanic in the US & Canada. When you have a survey done, have the surveyor mark and photograph every finding. On my purchase survey the guy noted some probable soft spots in the stringer. I looked for the spots for three years and couldn’t find them. I mentioned it to my latest surveyor and he couldn’t find it either. Have him check the bonding system connections for corrosion where the branches connect. I found that many of my connections were only held together by the corrosion. Fortunately I store the boat on the hard.
As to the cost of ownership, I have a long list of things that I want to repair, replace or upgrade, and I make an off season list each year in addition to normal maintenance. I do almost all of my own work with the help of my sons. For instance, a couple of years ago my big project was to replace the damper plates aka rattle plates that connect the engine to the transmission, replace the bellows on the shaft packing and replace the cutlass bearings. The prudent thing was to have the shafts checked and the props serviced. The props were pretty well shot so that took a couple of bbucks, the cutlass bearings were a pita to replace, but the rattle plates are a type that are serviceable for about $60 in parts each.
I can share my list with you for this year if you send me a personal message with your email.
We use our boat almost year round so the maintenance dollars per hour of use are lower than if it was used lightly. I change the oil about every 200 hours and the coolant on two year intervals. My primary fuel filters are Racor and I use 2 micron filters so the on engine filters remain clean. I change the coolant every two years and check the ph every six months. When I bought ours I changed all of the fluids and filters and raw water pump impellers. There are several items that can make for a nasty surprise, like the exhaust risers failing so I suggest having some money set aside for that.
Bottom paint and zincs are going to be based on where you moore. Having a reputable diver is really important. I hauled my previous boat annually and painted every year in the Port of Everett.
Where do you live? It helps us identify sources for you.

[purduepilot]

What goes bad on the props that warrants servicing and replacement? Just a hunk of metal, right?

[Pcpete]

The props had been repitched poorly making the root of each blade out of whack. Also, they were getting thin from excessive sanding and wire wheel polishing.

[Flyin1500]

Hey Pete!
Thanks for the info. I'm in Tacoma and looking to moor it at the Hylebos Marina. The davit system has been removed. Cheers!

F1500

[T Doriot]

Hey Flynn, FYI, Chuck has that listed on FB Market place for $ 38,800. You may already know that. I chatted with him about it. I decided it wasn't my cup of tea due to the ratty upholstery and canvas. IIRC there is a discrepancy in engine time Hobbs. Be careful on this one. I would definitely check for soft decks and wet stringers. If you are ready to deal with all the above mentioned items, I'd engage a good marine surveyor to do a once over in water. If it passes the water intrusion and you are still in love, then go to part B and have it hauled. I know he just replaced house batteries (per him), so that's a bennie. These things have their achillies heels! Good luck. Tracy

[Flyin1500]

Thanks T!
I saw the fb post and thinking with all the work that needs to be done and the genny being down, that maybe I can score it for the right price. I don't mind doing a little elbow grease work to get a better deal. If I pull the trigger I definitely plan to have a survey done and someone look at the engines for sure. I'm not in any hurry, so I guess I have that going for me. Did you find another 38xx to buy?

[smitty477]

Hey Flynn, FYI, Chuck has that listed on FB Market place for $ 38,800. You may already know that. I chatted with him about it. I decided it wasn't my cup of tea due to the ratty upholstery and canvas. IIRC there is a discrepancy in engine time Hobbs. Be careful on this one. I would definitely check for soft decks and wet stringers. If you are ready to deal with all the above mentioned items, I'd engage a good marine surveyor to do a once over in water. If it passes the water intrusion and you are still in love, then go to part B and have it hauled. I know he just replaced house batteries (per him), so that's a bennie. These things have their achillies heels! Good luck. Tracy

"IIRC there is a discrepancy in engine time Hobbs"
In the listing there are pictures of the old engine hour meters and the new engine hour meters - when you add the two together they equal the engine hours stated in the listing.

[T Doriot]

I think you can make a heck of a deal. In the boat world, you pay one way or another. Elbow grease is one way for sure. If the bones as you say are decent, the rest can be massaged over time. I am working a deal on the 3888 that launched my quest. It had wet stringers, soggy windless area and a soggy area on the f.b. the owner found a highly regarded (by my surveyors) and is in line to have the repairs done. Assuming it surveys, I am buying that one. Its reasonably nice. Its a 32 year old boat, so there is plenty to do. Mostly electronics and salon sitter upholstery I don't like. Still, I love these glorious beasts. I can afford something 3 times the cost of this, but I don't like the designs. So, my 3888 nostalgia will save a few bucks over a newer 40'. Good luck on yours. I hope its a perfect project with lots of fun and adventure!

[purduepilot]

This boat appears to be a deal, but just from what I saw, it'll be a lot of work, which I don't mind. Cheers!

As someone who recently purchased a "good deal" boat that needs "a lot of work", my mindset has shifted from "we got a good deal on this boat, it just needs some work" to "we paid a fair price for this boat considering the amount of work it needs". If you're willing to wait and save more to get a nicer, newer boat then you should consider it. If you're like me and you can't stand the thought of waiting another year to be on the water, then be prepared to put way more work into it than you think you will, because everything takes way longer than you expect it to (limited access, finding the right parts, researching how to do the thing, discovering new problems when you get into a project, waiting for weather, etc.).

[Flyin1500]

If you're like me and you can't stand the thought of waiting another year to be on the water, then be prepared to put way more work into it than you think you will, because everything takes way longer than you expect it to (limited access, finding the right parts, researching how to do the thing, discovering new problems when you get into a project, waiting for weather, etc.).

This! Thank goodness for the BOC. I may end up waiting to find just the right boat, just not sure right now. Thanks for your input. BTW, are you 121, 135 or just plain ole part 91 flying? Cheers!

F1500

[purduepilot]

I pay to fly airplanes and I get paid to design them.
I did my private at 18, and after moving to Seattle I did my IFR, complex, and seaplane but I put things on-hold a couple years ago when my 2 favorite airplanes (172 on floats and 182RG) were totaled within 6 months of each other (by other people) and just haven't got back into it. And now all my discretionary time and money go to the boat.
Is your handle a reference to ATP requirements?

[Flyin1500]

Way cool. I'd love to get my float rating some day. Hell, I'd even like to get back into GA. Maybe if the boat thing doesn't float. Lol. Flyin1500 was a previous screen name I used in a Chevy Silverado forum when I was driving a 1500 silverado. (it was flyin taco before that on a tacoma forum) and it kinda stuck, so yeah. I'm guessing the airplane I fly may have been made at your company. Cheers!

F1500

[purduepilot]

Glad to hear it. Buy more!

Float flying is the most fun you can have with your pants on. You can knock it out in 2-3 days. Fun alternative to a biennial flight review.

[Grego]

We have had our 1989, 3818 going on 3 years now, this is our first "big boat". We have tackled many projects that need fixing and done most of the work ourselves. All parts that say"marine" on them are expensive, I think you are going to go over budget the first year. There is a big difference in the cost that suppliers charge, get a few quotes as an example we had a large eisenglass & canvas window crack in the cold and wind, one bid was 1600 the other was 600.

Grego

[Bacon]

My experience was similar to Brads. At the end of the day I think I should have waited and spent what I have not invested on a boat that didn't need as much work. But if I knew what I would have been spending I probably would have given up instead. I am probably into the boat for allot more than it would sell for now. I have no regrets though and continuing to poor more money into it for enhancements now that the fixing is mostly under control.

[Flyin1500]

Thanks for the response. I think I am going to wait and find a better boat. I think I'd be settling if I pulled the trigger on this one. Cheers!

[Johnny_Vintage]

The 38's are a great boat. We've had ours for 13 years now, but like everything, stuff starts going bad. Me included.

I think I'm getting to old to look after it properly.

We are thinking of selling soon. I retired 4 years ago and I just got our moorage contract and it's a few bucks under $10,000.00.

That is for an uncovered slip. Plus around a grand a year for power. Plus haul out, bottom paint , zincs....I think we are done.

JV