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    Salt water operation 38xx

    Considering buying used 38xx or 45xx and trying to quantify the effect of salt water operation (FL, NJ, ME) vs brackish Chesepeake (MD, VA), vs lake (TN, KY) on engine, generator and/or other systems, incl hull. How much shorter is the life of manicooler, riser, gen set etc. Assume Hino powered NA, or TI.

    How much lower, if any, would fair price on a salt water boat be, all else incl good maintenance equal.

    I will be operating in northern Chesapeake most often and cruising south to SC or FL in winter, and up Hudson in summer.

    #2
    " incl good maintenance equal..."

    THAT is the key phrase. If the boats have all been maintained to the same standard, they should be in the same condition, and should have similar values. Location would affect values more so then the medium they float in at that point. The thing is, a freshwater boat can be neglected far longer than a boat neglected in saltwater. And there is a little more work in maintaining a saltwater boat. RIsers will last longer in fresh water, but manifolds would last indefinitely if maintained correctly.

    If you are looking for budget boats, find a freshwater boat or something that has been in the hard most of it's life. My free 2 cents
    . . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

    Comment


      #3
      25 plus years ago we purchase our 4588 1990 that was in Hampton Virginia, it was only 3-4 years old at the time and was super neglected and NOT well maintained and we were the only people in the middle of winter that were making an offers and we were able to get a great deal...that being said every boat, and it location, level of TLC and the motivation of the seller will zoom you in on fair price for both sides. I agree with Cool beans, ours was fresh water and it had a huge list of issues before we could even take it on sea trail for simple not being maintained.
      Mark
      USCG OUPV
      1990 4588
      Carlsbad, CA

      Comment


        #4
        These boats being almost 30 years old, I expect the effects of good vs marginal maintenance are large. So I guess I am trying to get a feel for: what is the expected life of the manicooler which is quite expensive in salt water, and what is the expected life of thru hull/sea cocks in salt water long term.

        Minimizing cost of repairs is not so much the issue as figuring out what might need done without having to disassemble and inspect.

        Comment


          #5
          I assume life of all the items in the raw water circuit have a shorter life in salt water...but how much shorter?

          Comment


            #6
            Okay, the link didn’t work for me, and Welcome. There’s so many variables even within the same area, I don’t think there’s any accurate predictions. For instance, a friend and I bought similar new boats with the same 350 Volvo’s. We moored in the same marina, he had the local shop maintain his, I did my own. I used mine about six hours for every one he used his, and at least four times to one. He had his exhaust manifolds failed in three years, mine were original when we bought a larger boat. My point is there are no metrics that are dependable. Saltwater, freshwater, they don’t matter. It’s all about maintenance.
            The recognized most knowledgeable Hino mechanic in the Western Hemisphere is Earl Summerville. [email protected] ​​​Have him do a mechanical survey, either in person or virtual, once you find a boat you really want to buy. He happened to be working on mine for the previous owner as I was buying our 3818 and I was able to have him bless the engines at that time.
            Depending on where you are, adjust from my baseline. Glauben is used nearly year round and we cruise from Olympia to Destination Sound. Engine and transmission Oil and filters, every 200 hours; raw water impeller, every other year, inspection annually; Coolant, alternating years; belts, check every time before startup, adjust as required; Racor fuel filters, annually and I carry lots of spares. I use two micron filters so the on engine filters are redundant (there’s a lot of personal preference on the filter systems); check preload on the shaft PSS logs; replace the anodes as required; lube the raw and coolant water pumps; check all hoses and hose clamps; Service batteries every three months; r&r exhaust risers every three years; adjust valve lash every 500 hours and anything else that looks odd. Last year I serviced the damper plates that connect the engine to the transmission, the shafts and props (new props required), cutlass bearings replaced, PSS dripless shaft log service kits, and shaft coupler plates.
            This past winter focused on repairing some voids in the command bridge deck including new furniture and replacing the bonding system.
            My point is, there’s no sure formula here. Look at mike3888’s post history. They probably had one of the best previous owners imaginable. However, as you read his later posts we’ve been helping him through some issues that are just part of boating and not predicted.
            Where are you and where do you plan to cruise?
            P/C Pete
            Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
            1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
            Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
            MMSI 367770440

            Comment


              #7
              IMO There’s no doubt the effects of a salt environment will be harsher on any boat compared to fresh water. Just how much difference is difficult to quantify and is the reason a thorough survey and sea trial is required. Uncover any discrepancies and determine the overall condition of the boat. This will help you determine the value of the vessel as well as the cost to bring it up to your standards. I doubt there’s a specific value one could automatically apply to a fresh water boat over one that lives in the salt.
              Jim Gandee
              1989 3888
              Hino 175's
              Fire Escape
              [email protected]

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you for your replies..very helpful. My home base will be north of Baltimore, MD. Mostly cruising in the northern Chesapeake Bay...Annapolis. St Micheals etc. Hopefully, also some time to cruise to FL via ICW, as well as a cruise up Hudson River in NY.

                Looking at 38xx, and 45xx. Most have EH Hino, but the 3888 have the 4 cyl. The $6000 price on manicooler, x2 got my attention. But, seems manicooler life may be more effected by coolant and engine load, than by raw water. I will treat each candidate as a unique individual.


                Comment


                  #9
                  Strout,
                  Heres a repoed 4788 right in your backyard that’s worth a look. The fact it’s repoed is a good sign it’s behind on maintenance but the price will give you some leeway depending on what a good survey uncovers. The extra 10’ of a 47 over a 38 makes a huge difference in comfort!
                  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...yacht-3645521/
                  Jim Gandee
                  1989 3888
                  Hino 175's
                  Fire Escape
                  [email protected]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks. I am aware of the 4788 in Annapolis. When our social distancing restrictions are loosened a bit. I may look at it. I really love the 45xx and 4788 and could afford, but the 37xx seems less extravagant and more practical.

                    My mate is not an enthusiastic, acrobatic boat handler, so docking my previous boats, was pretty much a single handed operation. 18000 pounds seems less of a challenge than docking a 28000 boat on a windy day in a crowded marina. Biggest boat I have handled by myself is a 38 footer. I am 70 and retired..previously self employed. Other issue is just how much of retirement portfolio is prudent to "invest" in a yacht. (I already own a small plane.)

                    A really nice 38xx seems to be a practical, prudent choice for a couple as long as my trips are one or two weeks max. But, as I said, I agree the 4788 is really a wonderful vessel. If I planned on 3 month winter stays in FL, or 3 months of summer in Maine or Canada, I would definitely go toward the 45xx or 4788.

                    Comment


                    • MacPhid
                      MacPhid commented
                      Editing a comment
                      We did the loop on our 38 last year, 14 months liveaboard, for the two of us it was an ideal size.

                      James

                    #11
                    You've asked specifically about the manicooler, which is open only to the fresh water (antifreeze) side so fresh or saltwater will make little difference to the manicooler. More important for the manicooler is the maintenance and attention it's seen during it's life, specifically antifreeze change every 2-3 years with the proper coolant (ASTM 4985) and how hard the boat has been run. The 45 with the turbo engines or later 38's with the 4 cyl turbo's will generate more heat in the exhaust manifold and more potential for erosion of the runners. There was a good post a while back with pictures of one member's repair of his manicoolers.
                    If well maintained and run reasonably the manicoolers should last the life of the boat. The issue with salt water regarding exhaust is the risers.

                    https://www.astm.org/Standards/D4985.htm

                    James
                    1989 Bayliner 3888, 175 Hinos,
                    Hurth 630's Onan 8kw MDKD
                    Lowrance Electronics!
                    Boating on Georgian Bay & the North Channel
                    Completed the Great Loop 07/25/19
                    AGLCA #8340
                    MTOA# 7469

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Thank you James. Georgian Bay must be a wonderful place to cruise. On an "old" boat, I would prefer the naturally aspirated Hino's you have. I go way back with diesels..my father was an engineer with Mack trucks in the 1950's and 1960's when they went from naturally aspirated 673 cu in Thermodyne to higher hp Maxidyne. Basically more hp with turbo with little weight increase, but higher maintenance. Well maintained naturally aspirated engine lasts a loooong time..important when considering a 30 year old boat.

                      Have you removed your manicooler for inspection and to service heat exchanger?

                      Comment


                      • MacPhid
                        MacPhid commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I've inspected the manicoolers from the inspection ports but not had to remove them. Opening up the ports gives you good access to the exhaust runners, mine were in great condition. It was a 1 owner freshwater boat with 1250 hours when we bought her 6 years ago and it had all the maintenance records so I could see when coolant had been changed. We've got over 2500 hours on her now and the engines are great, I've never had to add oil to either one and they never go down between changes.
                        James

                      #13
                      Originally posted by stroutmail View Post
                      Thanks. I am aware of the 4788 in Annapolis. When our social distancing restrictions are loosened a bit. I may look at it. I really love the 45xx and 4788 and could afford, but the 37xx seems less extravagant and more practical.

                      My mate is not an enthusiastic, acrobatic boat handler, so docking my previous boats, was pretty much a single handed operation. 18000 pounds seems less of a challenge than docking a 28000 boat on a windy day in a crowded marina. Biggest boat I have handled by myself is a 38 footer. I am 70 and retired..previously self employed. Other issue is just how much of retirement portfolio is prudent to "invest" in a yacht. (I already own a small plane.)

                      A really nice 38xx seems to be a practical, prudent choice for a couple as long as my trips are one or two weeks max. But, as I said, I agree the 4788 is really a wonderful vessel. If I planned on 3 month winter stays in FL, or 3 months of summer in Maine or Canada, I would definitely go toward the 45xx or 4788.
                      The 38XX is a great boat. Heck, I have one! However, the 47 gives you the room to be sooo much more comfortable during an extended stay, your 3 mos in Fl! The up galley is much larger and easier to function in. The third stateroom (office) provides an area to manage your affairs without encroaching on other living space. Regarding docking, the heavier 47 won’t be appreciably more difficult to dock than a 38 and if you have a bow thruster you’ll easily single hand her under most conditions. I’m retired, I truly understand about the “portfolio” and also own a small plane, a Cessna. I’m a little behind you age wise but at some point neither of us will be able to fly due to medical issues. When that happens I suspect we’ll be spending a lot more time on our boats. It’d be very nice to be sitting on a 47 when that happens as there’s a lot more room for that rocking chair we'll be tied to! . YMMV

                      PS. What type of plane do you have?
                      Jim Gandee
                      1989 3888
                      Hino 175's
                      Fire Escape
                      [email protected]

                      Comment


                        #14
                        Jim. I fly a 2007 Cubcrafters Sport Cub E-LSA. What is your Cessna? I love flying..currently Basic Med, but share your feelings...just a matter of time. Plus, my wife has no interest in flying, so it is pretty much a solo activity.

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Love those Cubs! Is that a carbon Cub? Perfect plane to take to Oshkosh and see the world from 1000’! I have a 1977 T210M. Luckily my wife likes to fly (retired Delta flight attendant) and we’ve been so fortunate to have flown that plane to many wonderful destinations.
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                          Jim Gandee
                          1989 3888
                          Hino 175's
                          Fire Escape
                          [email protected]

                          Comment

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