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    Looking at 4788's

    Sara and I are pretty seriously considering 4788. I've decided to stick with 97 and later, to stay with Cummins. Nothing against Hino's I think they are a great engine. But, I do not want to deal with manicooler issues and I think the later ones seem to hold their prices a bit better.

    What I'm looking for from you folks are other issues I might pay attention to There are a lot of them for sale and prices vary quite a bit. I've seen some east coast boats that seem to be a decent bargain, but I'd guess it will be at least 15k - 20k . to ship it out west.

    Anyway, I've looked at several and read quite but nothing speaks like the voice of experience.

    thanks for any thoughts.

    toni
    Toni

    Yelm, Washington
    1997 Camano Troll (for now)

    #2
    Make sure the boast has been re-propped to 22 or even 21”. Most have by now.

    Buy the best maintained, best equipped boat on the market, at the best price you can negotiate.

    The most expensive 4788 is the one that has the lowest price.

    KEVIN SANDERS
    4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
    where are we right now​​​​​​???​

    https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

    Comment


      #3
      When researching during the buying process I think I read every post on BOC regarding the 45 & 47. You will learn a lot. Spend some time up at Banana Belt boats in Anacortes. Talk to Dan Byrd at Fairview Yacht sales. Spend some time aboard some 47’s talking to owners. I would be happy to show you around ours but it is put away until spring.
      2000 4788 w Cummins 370's, underhulls, swim step hull extension
      12' Rendova center console with 40HP Yamaha
      MV Kia Orana
      Currently Alameda CA

      Comment


        #4
        When looking at boats, carefully evaluate the cost to add things that you want vs buying a boat with those things.

        Costs to update add up very quickly.

        A great example is a new heating system on a 4788 starts at around $10K for the parts alone.
        A new multi station nav system will run something over 10K for the parts alone. Probably closer to 20K
        The watermaker that you may want someday cost some owner certainly over $5K and probably a lot more if you can find one already installed on a for sale boat.

        Considering the engines, a great sign that a owner is in tune with those Cummins engines is if they have digital tach’s, and EGT and boost gauges installed. Thats not to say that if they do not have these things it is bad, but if they do it’s a sure sign that someone cared.

        Basically the more updates, and upgrades you find on a boat the chances are the better maintained the boat is. Those things took a owner who wanted to use the boat and had the money to keep it up and improve it.

        KEVIN SANDERS
        4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
        where are we right now​​​​​​???​

        https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Toni
          I would highly recommend. Dan Byrd (509-929-3535) in your surch for that 47 your looking for.he goes the extra mile for you.
          Brad & Sharon
          Lady Jake
          1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
          LaConner,Wa. (summer)
          2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
          kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)

          Comment


            #6
            I don’t know anything about this boat except it’s close to mine. Best in your search!
            https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/...988027842.html
            Jim Gandee
            1989 3888
            Hino 175's
            Fire Escape
            [email protected]

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks all for the suggestions. Kevin, I was hoping you'd reply. I'm torn on a couple things. Heating is one. I've installed diesel heaters before and although a pain, it's not a deal killer for me. My price calculations are a bit lower, but still a chunk. Same on the electronics. I've been down the road replacing them and again, its a chore, but something I can live with, as long as its reflected in the price.
              Good thoughts on the digital tachs and EGTs as signs of a caring owner. Same for the props. As was suggested, I've looked at several, some good, some not so much. The fellow right behind me at the yacht club has an absolutely fabulous 4788 with the later Hinos. Very nice boat. It kind of gets down to whether you pay more for one that is all up to date, or pay less and do the updating yourself. I've always been in the latter camp, but might have to re-think that. I've always been of the mind that doing the work myself if reasonable, leaves me in a better position to know what's going on and what to watch out for. My experience with the Bayliner motoryachts is that they can be a bit painful to work on. My 4388 was a good example, especially compared to my current boat, a Camano, which is a breeze to work on for the most part
              .Current pricing for late 1990's boats seem to be a low of the 160's and on up from there, to the lower 200's. I can do a lot of nice things to a boat for 40k.
              I don't know Day Byrd, but will give him a call. I've known Amy at Banana Belt for years, and dealt with her Dad before that. She is being very helpful and I think has given me some pretty solid advice. That's one reason I'm staying away from the 45's.
              Thanks for the link Jim, although I must say that spending 20k on engine maintenance in the last couple years does make me wonder.
              Currently I have my eye on one in particular. Price is relatively low, but the boat is virtually stock, so will take a lot of updates. Also, its been sitting for a bit longer than I'd like to see, but still worth looking at.
              The search goes on.
              toni
              Toni

              Yelm, Washington
              1997 Camano Troll (for now)

              Comment


                #8
                My 2 cents for the Puget Sound, San Juan, Gulf Island and Desolation Sound area for a 4788 is as follows:

                diesel heat throughout - Even if you have the juice to run all of the electric heaters while at dock, it’s not enough to get the boat warm and diesel heat is so useful to extend your season. The salon is not well insulated, and only brute force BTU’s will get it warm. We have Websato hydraunic, it’s very handy to have it installed such that it can keep the PH windows clear from fogging up.

                all chain rode - too many anchorages are rocky, deep or have changing tidal currents. You want to sleep well at night and be able to go ashore and plan on your boat staying put.

                a good dinghy - although we have a rib with a large motor, I much prefer a Bullfrog with a modest motor. At first I was skeptical of launching from a davit, but it works well on the 4788. I have launched dinghys on 4788s mounted for and aft and athwartship and I much prefer the later both for the safety aspect and it provides more room ship deck. IMPORTANT-the steel cable doesn’t last forever, ours broke while lifting the rib. You will want to replace it with the new graphite? wonder cable. ALSO check the davit for proper operation, some freeze up and can’t be rotated. Some stiffness is fine.

                a reliable generator - fortunately they all come with one, 8 kw is more than adequate. unless you plan to boat only between docks a generator is critical.

                adequate electronics - in my mind you don’t need the latest and greatest. You need reliable chart plotting (an iPad or PC can provide that now, reliable and easy to use radar and a basic autopilot both are critical for fog IMHO. The ability to receive and plot AIS is very useful, especially in Puget Sound and the San Juan’s with ferry traffic. It’s even better if you can transmit AIS. For the flybridge you need at least a small chartplotter and depthsounder for anchoring.

                hull speed - I believe the way to make those Cummins last is to keep your speed down to hull speed. We typically cruise at around 9 knots. This keeps fuel consumption down and reduces the load on the engines. I believe even if your over propped your engines will last if you baby them.

                adequate house bank and an inverter- The 4788’s seem to be amp hogs, we have an 840 amp-hr bank and more would be better.

                Nice to have:

                bow thruster - I was skeptical at this need, but a few times it has made a big difference. I have never seen the need for a stern thruster on the 4788. A little rudder and the inside engine move the stern very nicely.

                what you don’t need IMHO:

                watermaker - we have one from a previous owner that doesn’t work. With 190 gallons of fresh water we have never come close to running out. We explain to our guest the basics of conserving water and refill when we can. This advice has worked for us from Tacoma to Desolation Sound, I am not knowledgeable about the Broughtons.

                propane stove - I was skeptical about an electric stove but we now time it’s use with the need to charge the house bank with the generator. A couple of portable butane stoves are great to have for those times you don’t want to run the generator while cooking.

                air conditioning - It easy to get a good cross breeze through the boat

                built in tv - we store a modest flat screen with DVD behind the fwd salon chair, it’s never in the way and allows for lots of food storage in the original tv cabinet. When we want to use it we place it on the galley upper counter.

                fortunately most 4788’s have all of these things with the exception of diesel heat, which it sounds like your able to handle the install yourself. These are great boats for our part of the country.
                Partner in a 1999 4788

                Seattle, WA

                Comment


                  #9
                  Stargazer I agree 100% on your comment regarding hull speed, your intended cruising speed and prop pitch. When I purchased my 4788 I took my props to Osborn Propellers in Vancouver BC to have them re-ptiched and they asked me a bunch of questions. 1- What boat do I have? 2- What engines do I have? 3- (and most important) What speed am I going to cruise at and what RPM are the engines currently turning at that speed? I told him 8-9 knots and 14 - 15000 RPM. He looked up my boats displacement, waterline length, my Cummins torque curve and horsepower then told me " I will re-pitch your props if you insist but considering your intended cruising speed, you will be wasting your money, the engines are working in the sweet spot of their torque curve and will never be overstressed. He did state that if I were to constantly cruise at 23-2700 rpm my 24x24 props should be re-pitched to 22 or 21. He also stated that 21 pitch props will burn more fuel at 9 knots than 24 pitch props because the engines must turn higher rpm to achieve that speed BTW ... Osborn has been around for about 35 years and concentrate on commercial customers where fuel efficiency and engine life are priorities.
                  2001 Bayliner 4788
                  Underhulls
                  Bow & Stern Thrusters
                  330 Cummins
                  Langley British Columbia

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Just an observation which means nothing perhaps. I like Cummins engines. In the proper vehicle. I have and had several that were trouble free. However imo, they are overworked in a boat. The 5.9's are boosted to horsepower that exceeds the larger Cummins in a motorhome. Over the years I have seen just to many Cummins fail in a boat. The comment about babying them to last is never heard when talking about Hino engines. Again, just my thoughts but I would be seeking a well kept Hino powered boat. Glad to see you back Toni.
                    Started boating 1955
                    Number of boats owned 32
                    Bayliners
                    2655
                    2755
                    2850
                    3870 presently owned
                    Favorite boat. Toss up. 46' Chris Craft, 3870 Bayliner

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by stanfromhell View Post
                      Stargazer I agree 100% on your comment regarding hull speed, your intended cruising speed and prop pitch. When I purchased my 4788 I took my props to Osborn Propellers in Vancouver BC to have them re-ptiched and they asked me a bunch of questions. 1- What boat do I have? 2- What engines do I have? 3- (and most important) What speed am I going to cruise at and what RPM are the engines currently turning at that speed? I told him 8-9 knots and 14 - 15000 RPM. He looked up my boats displacement, waterline length, my Cummins torque curve and horsepower then told me " I will re-pitch your props if you insist but considering your intended cruising speed, you will be wasting your money, the engines are working in the sweet spot of their torque curve and will never be overstressed. He did state that if I were to constantly cruise at 23-2700 rpm my 24x24 props should be re-pitched to 22 or 21. He also stated that 21 pitch props will burn more fuel at 9 knots than 24 pitch props because the engines must turn higher rpm to achieve that speed BTW ... Osborn has been around for about 35 years and concentrate on commercial customers where fuel efficiency and engine life are priorities.
                      The challenge when buying a previously enjoyed 4788 is not knowing if the boat was run at displacement speed or on plane.

                      With 24” props you are overpropped and WILL experience a much shorter engine life if the boat is run up on plane much of the time.

                      When I bought my boat it had 900 hours and one of the engines had high blow by. It is strongly suspected that this was caused by factory overpropping. The bill for the new engines was well north of $50,000

                      I have also personally seen other Cummins equipped Bayliners that needed replacement engines with relatively low hours, and these were overpropped as well.

                      If I were in the market today for a 4788 I would not even consider a Cummins equipped boat with 24” pitch props unless I had a full history of the engines that included the amount of fuel used over their lifetime since new.

                      The risk frankly is just too great.

                      KEVIN SANDERS
                      4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                      where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                      https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Lots of good responses. We run at 1400 rpms (hull speed for us) 95% of the time and the engines purr right along. No bow thruster and we do just fine. I added AIS last winter (send and receive) and I love it. I use an iPad Pro and carry it between the fly bridge and pilothouse. Mid-2000s Garmin chartplotters for backup at both helms. They’re such a pain to program.

                        I like to use the autopilot to maintain a heading and I manually change course. I don’t trust running on autopilot from a plotter-I’ve avoided too many boats on autopilot with no one manning the helm.

                        Agree with all chain rode, I have 300 feet. Mark it so you know how much you have put out.

                        we bought our boat for a bargain price but it took two seasons to remedy the things that were installed incorrectly plus update the deferred maintenance.

                        oh, it’s really nice to have a center hatch for engine access.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Again, thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to look carefully at the prop issue Frankly I'm not sure what's on the boat I'm looking at, but will find out. I hear you about the Hino's Doug, I liked mine. But I guess the solution to ease my mind would be to just add in the price for a couple manicooler housings and be done with it. I see an add for one here locally that may have been John Ripley's boat, but I'm thinking that must be an old ad. It has hino's, the hull extension and those additions to reduce roll. If its still a real ad, I might take a look. decisions decisions
                          toni
                          Toni

                          Yelm, Washington
                          1997 Camano Troll (for now)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            So, another question that's become relevant in my search. Anyone have any approximate figures for the cost of replacing all the flybridge canvas? one of the boats I'm looking at has canvas that is in tatters. It bothers me some that anyone would let that happen to the extent I'm seeing, but still, in the name of due diligence I'd like to get a general figure to add to my list.
                            Toni

                            Yelm, Washington
                            1997 Camano Troll (for now)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Plan on an full enclosure being in the 10-12K range.
                              1999 Sandpiper Pilothouse - Current
                              1989 3888 - 2011-2019, 1985 Contessa - 2005-2011, 1986 21' Trophy 1998-2005
                              Nobody gets out alive.

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