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4588, 4788 owners lets talk about our inverter installations

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    4588, 4788 owners lets talk about our inverter installations

    Here is a question...

    For 4588 and 4788 owners how are the load sides of your inverter wired into your panels?

    Here’s how my boat come to me by the previous owner.

    The inverter was wired to a terminal block behind the panel, and the hot side was jumpered from breaker to breaker, and sometimes in groups. The owner cut the copper buss bars on the source side of the breakers to do this.

    Then he put a small tie wrap through the handle of the breaker to make it as “inverter”

    I was not happy with this approach, but I see why he did it.

    I “fixed” the problem this spring by removing the line 2 AC inlet, and making the center breaker panel a “inverter panel”

    I like this A lot better!

    How is your inverter set up?

    KEVIN SANDERS
    4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
    where are we right now​​​​​​???​

    https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

    #2
    Since the 4588 is very similar, the inverter is powered from a 30 amp breaker located on line 1. the output of the inverter feeds the main breaker on line 2, everything on line 2 is inverter powered... the neutrals from the inverter and inverter powered circuits are isolated from the rest of the AC powered devices like the water heaters... This is just like Kevin's setup

    This does create a single point of failure, the transfer relay in the inverter. Since this goes against my suspenders / belt philosophy. I will add a rotary switch that will allow me to bypass the transfer relay if necessary....

    Comment


      #3
      We did a new AC Panel with 3 banks about 4 years back now.
      Our boat shore power is now 125/250v and is split to 2 banks each 125v/50 amp, and 3 bank is the inventer bank. We also wired a bi-pass before the inventer so it the invert dies I flip a switch and the ac bi pass through inventer directly from shore of gen set. Had an inventor fail and this is a huge back plan.
      Attached Files
      Mark
      USCG OUPV
      1990 4588
      Carlsbad, CA

      Comment


      • Kwood
        Kwood commented
        Editing a comment
        That's a great looking panel. Where is it from?

      • Destiny_4588
        Destiny_4588 commented
        Editing a comment
        Common Ground in Newport Beach, CA custom made all my panels, they are fiber optic back lighted, so easy to read at night and easy to change the name labels, low low power consumption....https://commongroundmarine.com/

      #4
      Kevin, my 2003 490 is wired almost exactly as your was, including the segmented buss bars and tie wraps to identify inverter powered circuits.

      Comment


        #5
        Originally posted by Destiny_4588 View Post
        We did a new AC Panel with 3 banks about 4 years back now.
        Our boat shore power is now 125/250v and is split to 2 banks each 125v/50 amp, and 3 bank is the inventer bank. We also wired a bi-pass before the inventer so it the invert dies I flip a switch and the ac bi pass through inventer directly from shore of gen set. Had an inventor fail and this is a huge back plan.
        Nice panel upgrade!

        On my boat I wired the inverter directly to the 30A shore power breaker for the center panel.

        To provide a bypass in case of inverter failure I wired the lower breaker to the load side of the shore and generator breakers feeding panel #1. That way if the inverter fails the inverter panel gets power from either shore or generator power.

        Yes, if a inverter dies you need a backup source.

        KEVIN SANDERS
        4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
        where are we right now​​​​​​???​

        https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Average_Joe View Post
          Kevin, my 2003 490 is wired almost exactly as your was, including the segmented buss bars and tie wraps to identify inverter powered circuits.
          Yes I never liked that installation method, but it seemed to be popular.

          KEVIN SANDERS
          4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
          where are we right now​​​​​​???​

          https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

          Comment


            #7
            I am getting ready to install a 3000w inverter and am watching what you all have done with great interest. I am thinking of running a separate circuits for the inverter with their own outlets. Will be mainly used in the galley. Thoughts and suggestion always welcome.

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by Amx1kjw View Post
              I am getting ready to install a 3000w inverter and am watching what you all have done with great interest. I am thinking of running a separate circuits for the inverter with their own outlets. Will be mainly used in the galley. Thoughts and suggestion always welcome.
              There are so many things you might want to run with your inverter.

              I would seriously consider as others have done, and create a separate inverter panel for the things you want to always be on.

              KEVIN SANDERS
              4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
              where are we right now​​​​​​???​

              https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

              Comment


                #9
                My boat’s previous owner had installed a large 3-position multi-tier rotary switch that allows switching all three line 1 wires from external to generator or to inverter. When lines 2 and 3 are linked to line 1, the generator or inverter is allowed to run any breaker on the panel, so I must pay attention to which breakers are engaged.
                1997 4788 with Cummins 5.9 (315 hp)
                12 ft Rendova with 40 hp Merc 4 cycle
                Pacific NW

                Comment


                  #10
                  My 4588 had not had an inverter until I bought one.. Xantrex Freedom X 3000/6000 watt. After getting it, I wanted to take advantage of the automatic transfer switch portion of the inverter. In order to do that, I had to go the segmented buss bar route that you folks are seeing. This however, became VERY limiting.. So ulimtately, Here's what I did. I reconnected the separated buss bars. I purchased a Blue Sea AC panel for the circuits I wanted to be able to have on the inverter as well as shore power. I connected from the switched side of each of those breakers to the switched side of the secondary power panel. Power to the secondary panels comes from it's mains supplied by the inverter. The one thing that MUST be watched with this, is that the secondary panel mains do NOT get turned on while hooked to shore power. I had thought about doing this with a keyed switch. That said, I don;t have the auto transfer switch function working on my set up. But it's also become much easier to use and I have power to the circuits I want to use on inverter power. Some I have to trade out for others.. like salon outlets vs galley outlets when cooking, etc. But I can also run my AC on this inverter without issue. More than welcome to comments on the way I did it.

                  Comment


                  • Destiny_4588
                    Destiny_4588 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    why not take the main lines go to inverter and inventer to the subpanel? That is clean and will auto transfer the power when generator or shore power are present. What you are doing is very dangerous to in my opinion.

                  #11
                  The inverter is power by line 2 and runs all the circuits on line 1 (microwave, ice maker and outlets) it is wired upstream of the amp meters so you have no idea how much current the inverter is using.
                  Partner in a 1999 4788

                  Seattle, WA

                  Comment


                    #12
                    WOW!!! There are a lot of different ways that it seems mostly Previous Owners wired inverters into place.

                    VERY FEW of these installations are really “correct” but they work. Some are yes dangerous!

                    So...

                    A “correct” inverter installation...

                    1. Cannot back feed, or combine sources due to operator error. This is a dangerous situation.
                    2. Separates the neutrals for the connected loads. This is because when in invert mode the inverter will combine neutral and ground creating a ground loop. This is bad because it can trip out the new GFI circuit breakers that are being installed at marinas pretty much right now.

                    I would support either of two installation methods as being In My Opinion as “best practice”

                    The easiest method would be to have your inverter between the main breakers and its “panel”. This would work, but it lacks flexibility as you cannot power loads from different panels.

                    Another method is to create a inverter subpanel. Then you connect the inverter powered loads to it, along with the inverter connected neutrals.

                    For folks with installations that have the OEM neutral connections and a sub panel type installation, (which is how my boat was wired) you are going to trip the GFI circuit breaker at your marina when they upgrade.

                    The only ways to avoid this are to either separate the neutrals, or install isolation transformers. I chose the isolation transformers method as I wanted the benefits of isolating my boat from shore power.




                    KEVIN SANDERS
                    4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                    where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                    https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

                    Comment


                    • Kwood
                      Kwood commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes. Excellent topic Kevin. I have to go back a really look now to see what was done.

                    #13
                    After reading all the post, I am thinking of removing the current line 1-2 selector switch and installing a new one with a 4th position for the inverter. It would now read "Normal, OFF, Line 1-2 and Inverter". This would allow me to power all items on Line 2 (Bus 2) and keep the inverter separate from the AC side of things. Has anyone done this or am i barking up the wrong tree.

                    Comment


                      #14
                      Just thought I share the AC/inverter/ generator panel as it looks today after we upgraded to the fisher panda gen set
                      Attached Files
                      Mark
                      USCG OUPV
                      1990 4588
                      Carlsbad, CA

                      Comment


                        #15
                        Originally posted by Destiny_4588 View Post
                        Just thought I share the AC/inverter/ generator panel as it looks today after we upgraded to the fisher panda gen set
                        That really does look great!

                        KEVIN SANDERS
                        4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                        where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                        https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

                        Comment

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