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    Head Sink/Tub Sump Pump

    My pump for the head sinks/tub has stopped working and was flowing into the bilge this morning. Got the water cleaned up for the most part, but I can’t figure out what the problem is. I was able to unscrew one side of the float switch and get a finger under it and the float seems to be moving freely. No fuse that I can find (which it seems like there should be?). Breaker at the panel looks fine (it’s the tiny red push button).

    Any other ideas? Does it sound like the pump is dead? I can’t find any way to manually activate the pump.
    James
    2000 4788 | "Freedom"
    Gig Harbor, WA
    11' Novurania w/40hp Yamaha
    Cummins 330's and Westerbeke 8kw
    Hull Extension, Chines and Hardtop

    #2
    The pump is a likely suspect as they do fail (usually at the start of a vacation). But first I would determine if you are getting 12V to the float switch and pump. The wiring in a sump box can often deteriorate, or it could be a loose connection of hidden fuse.
    Mike
    "Allante I" Rayburn 75
    Previous: '97 4788

    Comment


      #3
      Hi James

      We had the same problem this boating season....Turned out it was the Float switch,would work intermittently.
      Brad & Sharon
      Lady Jake
      1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
      Anacortes/La Conner, Wa.

      Comment


        #4
        I've had to change the entire sump box with new pump and float switch on my 3988. Not too long after this installation, the fairly new float switch failed and I had to replace it. As mentioned, start by making sure you have 12V to the float switch and pump and that the wires are fine. If you have 12 V, you can bypass the float switch by manually connecting the positive and negative wires on the bilge pump. If the pump turns on, you have a bad float switch, which can easily be replaced. Obviously, if the pump does not activate by touching the two wires, you have a bad pump. Hope this helps.
        Alex
        Orange County, Ca.
        2001 3988
        Twin Cummins 330's

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks everyone. I was able to verify that there is power to the switch and pump. Seems it was the switch, but knowing the age of the pump I’ve opted to just replace the entire box. Finding 6” of standing water in the bilge compartment under the box was worrisome this morning, but now they I have a grasp on the problem it’s less concerning. It also alerted me to a bilge drain hole that was preventing the water from making it to the pumps.
          James
          2000 4788 | "Freedom"
          Gig Harbor, WA
          11' Novurania w/40hp Yamaha
          Cummins 330's and Westerbeke 8kw
          Hull Extension, Chines and Hardtop

          Comment


            #6
            I find the whole system to be a bit problematic. I am constantly screwing with mine, cleaning out hair, scum, etc...
            Some here have mitigated the problem of a overflow flooding, which is a great idea. Others have installed water detectors with alarms, also a great idea.

            I would like a better system altogether.

            Something like the Whale sealed greywater system.

            KEVIN SANDERS
            4788 DOS PECES - SEWARD ALASKA


            Whats the weather like on the boat
            https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddab...59665f4e4/wide


            Where am I right now? https://maps.findmespot.com/s/2R02

            Comment


              #7
              Shower sumps are the bane of everyone's life at some point, and we have experienced many less than joyous moments with these things on all of our boats over the years - until now. On the 5788 as standard, they are fitted with a sealed sump box (fore & aft) that only contain a float switch, and access to the inside is through a 4" deck plate sealed with an O-Ring. The float switch controls a Whale Pump which is located downstream from the sump box and it pumps all water overboard, however, should there be a failure in the system (or on a couple of occasions it was switched off at the breaker panel), water will back up in the tub or sink, an not leak into the bilge or all over the boat.

              These things are bound to be expensive, and I have just taken a quick look online to try to compare. As I'm not sure if the whole system is made by Whale or just the pumps, I'll have to wait until I get to the boat as all of my manuals etc. live on board.

              Whale also offer an intelligent sump pump that operates anytime water is present.

              Rob
              Bayliner 5788
              'Merlin V'
              Vancouver BC

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by MerlinV View Post
                Shower sumps are the bane of everyone's life at some point, and we have experienced many less than joyous moments with these things on all of our boats over the years - until now. On the 5788 as standard, they are fitted with a sealed sump box (fore & aft) that only contain a float switch, and access to the inside is through a 4" deck plate sealed with an O-Ring. The float switch controls a Whale Pump which is located downstream from the sump box and it pumps all water overboard, however, should there be a failure in the system (or on a couple of occasions it was switched off at the breaker panel), water will back up in the tub or sink, an not leak into the bilge or all over the boat.

                These things are bound to be expensive, and I have just taken a quick look online to try to compare. As I'm not sure if the whole system is made by Whale or just the pumps, I'll have to wait until I get to the boat as all of my manuals etc. live on board.

                Whale also offer an intelligent sump pump that operates anytime water is present.
                The Whale is the one I am thinking about, and is the one you described. See the link below.

                https://boatparts4less.com/products/...control-gk1512

                I have a boat parts store because I am my best customer

                KEVIN SANDERS
                4788 DOS PECES - SEWARD ALASKA


                Whats the weather like on the boat
                https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddab...59665f4e4/wide


                Where am I right now? https://maps.findmespot.com/s/2R02

                Comment


                  #9
                  Kevin. What's the purpose of this tank + pump vs a whale pump with the auto on feature?

                  I was also thinking... What about running both sinks to the forward thru hull via Y fitting (should be a downward flow) then run both tub and shower to a single intelle pump (replacing the existing one)? Only problem I see is finding someone with long enough skinny arms to do it all. I've never understood why it was designed the way it is...
                  Lee
                  2007 Meridian 490
                  2007 Meridian 368
                  1996 2855 Cierra
                  1978 Caribbean 26'
                  Oceanside, CA

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ksanders View Post

                    The Whale is the one I am thinking about, and is the one you described. See the link below.

                    https://boatparts4less.com/products/...control-gk1512

                    I have a boat parts store because I am my best customer
                    My concern with an enclosed unit like the Whale systems is you still have to deal with all the hair and gunk build up. That has always been the trouble with the sump pump that I have. It will build up and requires me to open the box, remove the inlet screen, clean it and the pump inlet, which also entails vacuuming out the box. I also flush the lines feed the box as they do not have a very steep angle to them. I run a little snake up the pipe each time to break loose the solids that don't make it down all the way to the sump.
                    PIA job but luckily, I only have to do it about every 6 months. If I stick to that schedule, I don't have any issues. Get lazy and well you know what happens. One of the things I do consistently is to listen for the pump to come on when I start the shower. Call me gun shy but I hate finding the carpet in the companion way soaked and the head ache of cleaning it up.
                    Patrick and Patti
                    4588 Pilothouse 1991
                    12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
                    M/V "Paloma"
                    MMSI # 338142921

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Whale has an alternative that does not use a sump tank. It has a sensor that detects water in the line and turns the pump on:
                      https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/pr...ndlyID=Grey-IC
                      1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
                      2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
                      Anacortes, WA
                      Isla Verde, PR

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Often at the beginning of the season on my boat, sump switch will jamb, causing the fuse to pop. Before you try it, move the impeller around several times to make sure its free, check the fuse and then lift float switch to test it.
                        1996 4087 Lazy Days
                        2011 11’ West Marine Rib 350 Lazy Mac
                        2011 Porsche Cayman
                        2010 Lexus IS 250C
                        2008 Honda Ridgeline

                        Comment


                          #13
                          OK, here is how it works. Thanks to youtube

                          The Whale IC pump system uses a sensor to activate it. If you get the “Dual manifold” sensor/pump then two drains can be connected. These are the ports on the sides. The bottom port connects to the pump. This would work for the 4788 just fine. The challenge as i see it is that you have to figure out a way to mount the sensor. That would require fabricating a bracket of some kind I suppose.

                          Using the tank seems to make things a bit easier in that it provides a mounting option for the sensor, easy access to change out the sensor if it fails, and easy incoming hose management. The link below is to a .pdf brochure and instruction manual.
                          I really like that a switch can be installed to bypass the sensor, which would aid in diagnosing any issues although that same kind of switch could be added to the OEM system as well.

                          https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/si...US_v4_0118.PDF

                          https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/si...42_v1_1117.pdf


                          I like the tank system quite a bit. Electronic sensors are really reliable, and the idea of being able to change out a failed sensor without becoming “wet” is pretty handy. Since the unt is sealed, any failure would result in the two sinks and the main shower backing up, not a flood situation.

                          The tanks are small at 13X10X7 and you can even get a tank with two sensors so that one can become a high level alarm, signaling a failure.


                          Papa charlie brings up a Very good point as well.

                          The OEM system requires frequent maintenance, but it is easy to work on, and in my case since I use the same brand bilge pumps I already have spare parts.

                          I am not so concerned about dealing with the gunk etc... The reason is that the OEM system requires a screen to keep the hair etc... out of the pump, where the Whale system uses a diphram pump that is designed to handle those materials.

                          KEVIN SANDERS
                          4788 DOS PECES - SEWARD ALASKA


                          Whats the weather like on the boat
                          https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddab...59665f4e4/wide


                          Where am I right now? https://maps.findmespot.com/s/2R02

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I had a lot of problems with the original system on my 2001.

                            So, I had a similar box installed (not sure of the brand) and connected to a gulper pump downstream. I like that it eliminated the need to clean out screens since the pump pushes that stuff out. I also bought into the idea that the electronic sensor is an improvement over moving parts. It works great.

                            However, I subsequently had a simple electrical connection problem which was incredibly hard to troubleshoot and repair due to the limited and generally poor access.

                            Does anybody have suggestions to improve access while working in this area?

                            I removed four four screws from the vacuum thinking I could remove it temporarily.....but to my surprise it does not come out. I could not see an easy way to remove the plywood? Panel that it screws to....and frustratingly it covers the entire right side of the access space. I am considering taking a Sawzall and hammer to remove the wood panel and abandon the vacuum altogether...as I am not a skilled DIYer. In any event, I would be more comfortable if I could access that area easier.

                            Do you have more rational idea’s?
                            2001 Bayliner 4788, Cummins 370's
                            Zodiac Yachtline 380, Yamaha 25hp
                            Sanger wakeboard boat
                            volunteer CA Delta tour guide

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Oakland4788 View Post
                              I had a lot of problems with the original system on my 2001.

                              So, I had a similar box installed (not sure of the brand) and connected to a gulper pump downstream. I like that it eliminated the need to clean out screens since the pump pushes that stuff out. I also bought into the idea that the electronic sensor is an improvement over moving parts. It works great.

                              However, I subsequently had a simple electrical connection problem which was incredibly hard to troubleshoot and repair due to the limited and generally poor access.

                              Does anybody have suggestions to improve access while working in this area?

                              I removed four four screws from the vacuum thinking I could remove it temporarily.....but to my surprise it does not come out. I could not see an easy way to remove the plywood? Panel that it screws to....and frustratingly it covers the entire right side of the access space. I am considering taking a Sawzall and hammer to remove the wood panel and abandon the vacuum altogether...as I am not a skilled DIYer. In any event, I would be more comfortable if I could access that area easier.

                              Do you have more rational idea’s?
                              Removing the worthless vaccume was ther best thing I did to improve access to that area.

                              The teak trim comes out in one piece. The screws are in the inward side edges of the teak.

                              The vacume can then come out.

                              The plywood frame for the vacume is easy to remove using a vibrating saw, and cutting the impossible to reach screws holding it in.

                              You will be amazed at how big the area back there is.

                              KEVIN SANDERS
                              4788 DOS PECES - SEWARD ALASKA


                              Whats the weather like on the boat
                              https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddab...59665f4e4/wide


                              Where am I right now? https://maps.findmespot.com/s/2R02

                              Comment

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