Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

4788 Davit Solenoid Replacement

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    4788 Davit Solenoid Replacement

    Hi All,

    One of my worst fears came to life this weekend. We winched the dinghy up and when I went to lower it on the chalks the winch would not go down. We can hear the solenoids clicking, but nothing happens. It will crank up, but not down. We reversed the polarity and were finally able to lower it. But it only worked once. When we tried to lower the cable, it would not activate the motor. It just clicked. We think it is probably the solenoids since the motor works one direction.

    1. Have any of you replaced the solenoid? The one in there is a White Rodgers 111-142e. I called them and they say they don't make a replacement version and I need to find a different manufacturer. It would be nice to have one that fits plug and play.

    That leads to my other questions:

    2. Is there a fuse for this application somewhere? We don't have ours on a breaker switch. It is just always working.
    3. What is your emergency plan if you get the dinghy half way up and the motor stops working? Is there a manual way to activate the motor?
    4. Should I replace the motor now too? If so, have any of you found a good plug and play replacement that is a bit of an upgrade in quality/strength?


    Thank you
    Jeff




    #2
    The davit breaker is on the main battery managment panel aft salon, port side by the door.

    We sell a bunch of relays at www.boatparts4less.com

    KEVIN SANDERS
    4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
    where are we right now​​​​​​???​

    https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

    Comment


      #3
      I found a like replacement (actually, a friend of mine found it). $14.99 on Amazon. I installed them today and the davit is working again. I'm going to buy two extras to keep on board, along with some bolt cutters for the direst of emergencies.

      I'd still love to know your emergency plan should the winch give out while the dinghy is in mid-air.

      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M47XC8

      Item Specifics

      12 Volts
      6 Terminals
      2-BATTERY TERMINALS ON SIDE
      2-BATTERY TERMINALS ON BACK
      2-SWITCH TERMINALS ON TOP

      Dimensions

      (4) 5/16"-24 Threaded Studs for Battery & Motor
      (2) 10-32 Threaded Terminals for Activation & Ground
      8mm x 15.1mm Mounting Slots-56mm Apart on Center

      Notes

      Rated 35 Amps at Normally Open Contacts & 85 Amps at Normally Closed Contacts

      Hope this helps you guys should you run into the same issues.

      Thanks,
      Jeff

      Comment


        #4
        I replaced the ss cable with Dyneema. Should a mid air failure occur I would properly position the dinghy, make sure I had one or more ropes attached to the dinghy, and very very cautiously cut the Dyneema with shears made just for cutting that material. Dyneema does not snap back like other material. Easier if there are others to help, but I’ve role played it out as if I was alone. This of course assumes I’m not in fought rolly-polly conditions as well. Then tow it home.
        Patti & Gordon Lewandowski
        Sammamish WA
        1998 4788 (April 2018)
        ”Knot Home”

        Comment


          #5
          I replaced the steel cable with Amsteel which is so much nicer to be around than the steel cable with its fishhooks. I have a variety of tools that can cut through the Amsteel if ever necessary.

          In the past I have dealt on separate occasions with both a failed control unit and a failed solenoid. I jumped the failed control unit and I switched the cables on the motor which allowed me to use the other solenoid whic. Both of these hacks worked well but caused me to (a) upgrade the control unit to the waterproof version shown in the photo below and (b) replace both solenoids. My emergency plan for lowering if the Davit becomes stuck is to use the block and tackle I installed on the davit several years ago when I refurbished the Davit. I replaced the through bolt that holds the sheave for the cable with a Screw Eye Lag Bolt and permanently attached one end of the tackle to this. The other end of the tackle is on a snap shackle and "rests" secured to a ubolt near the base of the crane and in its normal use is temporarily attached to a Ubolt in the Stbd Aft corner of the Flybridge where I use the tackle to pull the crane arm back towards the boat when loaded up with the Dinghy. The weight of the dinghy causes my 4788 to heel around 5 degrees to port and this makes it quite hard to swing the crane 'uphill' although it does not bind and swings freely under load when not heeled. So in a real emergency, with the Dinghy dangled and no ability to use the motor I would plan to secure the portable end of this same tackle to the dinghy bridle, run the line up through the screw eye lag bolt, secure that line then cut the Amsteel. I believe the load on this line would be around 125lb which I think I could friction brace around a rail as I allowed it to lower to the water. As currently configured the line I am using for the block and tackle is not quite long enough to get the dinghy all the way down, so the dinghy would drop the last 4'. This post reminds me to replace the line with a longer version!
          Alan Teed
          MOONDANCE
          '94 4788
          Gig Harbor, WA
          Previously:
          2006 Hylas 49' blowboat
          Bayliner 2855
          1977 Cal 34' blowboat
          1981 Hunter 33' blowboat
          Experience: Sail 50 years, Motor 15 years. 2 Transats, 1 Baltimore-Virgin Islands, 6 Months cruising Caribbean, 3.5 years cruising Med.

          Comment


            #6
            I bought a come along that should enable me to get the dinghy at least down to the water. I’ve never actually run through a potential problem. Writing this reminds me that I need to rehearse a dry run.
            2000 4788 w Cummins 370's, underhulls, swim step hull extension
            12' Rendova center console with 40HP Yamaha
            MV Kia Orana
            Currently Alameda CA

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Alan_Teed View Post
              I replaced the steel cable with Amsteel which is so much nicer to be around than the steel cable with its fishhooks. I have a variety of tools that can cut through the Amsteel if ever necessary.

              In the past I have dealt on separate occasions with both a failed control unit and a failed solenoid. I jumped the failed control unit and I switched the cables on the motor which allowed me to use the other solenoid whic. Both of these hacks worked well but caused me to (a) upgrade the control unit to the waterproof version shown in the photo below and (b) replace both solenoids. My emergency plan for lowering if the Davit becomes stuck is to use the block and tackle I installed on the davit several years ago when I refurbished the Davit. I replaced the through bolt that holds the sheave for the cable with a Screw Eye Lag Bolt and permanently attached one end of the tackle to this. The other end of the tackle is on a snap shackle and "rests" secured to a ubolt near the base of the crane and in its normal use is temporarily attached to a Ubolt in the Stbd Aft corner of the Flybridge where I use the tackle to pull the crane arm back towards the boat when loaded up with the Dinghy. The weight of the dinghy causes my 4788 to heel around 5 degrees to port and this makes it quite hard to swing the crane 'uphill' although it does not bind and swings freely under load when not heeled. So in a real emergency, with the Dinghy dangled and no ability to use the motor I would plan to secure the portable end of this same tackle to the dinghy bridle, run the line up through the screw eye lag bolt, secure that line then cut the Amsteel. I believe the load on this line would be around 125lb which I think I could friction brace around a rail as I allowed it to lower to the water. As currently configured the line I am using for the block and tackle is not quite long enough to get the dinghy all the way down, so the dinghy would drop the last 4'. This post reminds me to replace the line with a longer version!
              Alan - was the replacement controller a simple job or did you need to replace the female unit as well with the requisite rewiring? Can you provide make model and source info?
              Patti & Gordon Lewandowski
              Sammamish WA
              1998 4788 (April 2018)
              ”Knot Home”

              Comment


                #8
                Gordon, it was one of my favorite and easiest jobs! I found a crane/hoist controller (they are called crane control pendants) that was designed for use outdoors for a warehouse crane or similar so it is robust and waterproof. At the same time I replaced the plug/socket in the side of the boat with a nicer waterproof plug from Defender US. You would not have to replace the plug if you did not want to and could simply wire the new controller into the old plug. I purchased it from ACIHoist.com. One tip, I ordered one with the tension wire which is a reinforcing stainless steel wire that you would attach separately to the side of the boat as a strain relief. With hindsight that was total overkill so I would not choose that option again. The pendant is very robust as are the cable connections. Good luck!
                Alan Teed
                MOONDANCE
                '94 4788
                Gig Harbor, WA
                Previously:
                2006 Hylas 49' blowboat
                Bayliner 2855
                1977 Cal 34' blowboat
                1981 Hunter 33' blowboat
                Experience: Sail 50 years, Motor 15 years. 2 Transats, 1 Baltimore-Virgin Islands, 6 Months cruising Caribbean, 3.5 years cruising Med.

                Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by MalNSF View Post
                I found a like replacement (actually, a friend of mine found it). $14.99 on Amazon. I installed them today and the davit is working again. I'm going to buy two extras to keep on board, along with some bolt cutters for the direst of emergencies.

                I'd still love to know your emergency plan should the winch give out while the dinghy is in mid-air.

                https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M47XC8

                Item Specifics

                12 Volts
                6 Terminals
                2-BATTERY TERMINALS ON SIDE
                2-BATTERY TERMINALS ON BACK
                2-SWITCH TERMINALS ON TOP

                Dimensions

                (4) 5/16"-24 Threaded Studs for Battery & Motor
                (2) 10-32 Threaded Terminals for Activation & Ground
                8mm x 15.1mm Mounting Slots-56mm Apart on Center

                Notes

                Rated 35 Amps at Normally Open Contacts & 85 Amps at Normally Closed Contacts

                Hope this helps you guys should you run into the same issues.

                Thanks,
                Jeff
                Hey Jeff,

                I've run into the exact same problem and am planning on getting the same replacements you did. It's been a year, they still working well for you?

                Thanks for the update,
                James
                James
                2000 4788 | "Freedom"
                Gig Harbor, WA
                11' Novurania w/40hp Yamaha
                Cummins 330's and Westerbeke 8kw
                Hull Extension, Chines and Hardtop

                Comment


                • MalNSF
                  MalNSF commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Hi James. Fingers crossed, still working well. The solenoids were so cheap that I bought a spare set to keep on board.

                #10
                Originally posted by Alan_Teed View Post
                Gordon, it was one of my favorite and easiest jobs! I found a crane/hoist controller (they are called crane control pendants) that was designed for use outdoors for a warehouse crane or similar so it is robust and waterproof. At the same time I replaced the plug/socket in the side of the boat with a nicer waterproof plug from Defender US. You would not have to replace the plug if you did not want to and could simply wire the new controller into the old plug. I purchased it from ACIHoist.com. One tip, I ordered one with the tension wire which is a reinforcing stainless steel wire that you would attach separately to the side of the boat as a strain relief. With hindsight that was total overkill so I would not choose that option again. The pendant is very robust as are the cable connections. Good luck!
                Hey Alan,

                Do you remember which socket you got from Defender? I'm looking at a Marinco one that's designed for trolling motors and am curious if that's similar to what you used? https://www.amazon.com/Marinco-12VCP.../dp/B06Y5XQQNV
                James
                2000 4788 | "Freedom"
                Gig Harbor, WA
                11' Novurania w/40hp Yamaha
                Cummins 330's and Westerbeke 8kw
                Hull Extension, Chines and Hardtop

                Comment


                  #11
                  Hoping someone here can help. I had the exact same problem as Jeff above, so ordered the same replacement solenoids from Amazon. Went to install them today and realized my old ones were 5-post and only had one post on front. New ones are 6-post and have two posts. It looks like Jeff’s old ones were 6-post. I’ve uploaded pictures of my old ones (two pictures of them installed and one picture of one after it was removed) and a picture of Jeff’s old ones while they were installed that he posted above.

                  Now that I've looked into it further there is what looks to be a direct replacement for my 5-post from Amtek (DB Electrical) available for $18 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                  When I installed the new 6-post ones today I hooked green up to the left front post of the left solenoid and black up to the left front post of the right solenoid. Both front right posts were left open. There is no longer ANY power to the davit. Previously I could still bring the cable in, and the faulty solenoid would click when I was trying to let it out.

                  I assume that this would be resolved if I wire the front right posts where they need to be, I just don’t know where that is. I feel like ordering the 5-post replacements and swapping those out with the new 6-post that I just installed is probably my best bet. Anyone care to weigh in?
                  James
                  2000 4788 | "Freedom"
                  Gig Harbor, WA
                  11' Novurania w/40hp Yamaha
                  Cummins 330's and Westerbeke 8kw
                  Hull Extension, Chines and Hardtop

                  Comment


                    #12
                    Originally posted by ksanders View Post
                    The davit breaker is on the main battery managment panel aft salon, port side by the door.

                    We sell a bunch of relays at www.boatparts4less.com
                    Probably a stupid question, but how do you intentionally "trip" the davit breaker? Would like to do that prior to working on the davit, but can't for the life of me figure out how to do it.
                    James
                    2000 4788 | "Freedom"
                    Gig Harbor, WA
                    11' Novurania w/40hp Yamaha
                    Cummins 330's and Westerbeke 8kw
                    Hull Extension, Chines and Hardtop

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Originally posted by Uppy22 View Post
                      Hoping someone here can help. I had the exact same problem as Jeff above, so ordered the same replacement solenoids from Amazon. Went to install them today and realized my old ones were 5-post and only had one post on front. New ones are 6-post and have two posts. It looks like Jeff’s old ones were 6-post. I’ve uploaded pictures of my old ones (two pictures of them installed and one picture of one after it was removed) and a picture of Jeff’s old ones while they were installed that he posted above.

                      Now that I've looked into it further there is what looks to be a direct replacement for my 5-post from Amtek (DB Electrical) available for $18 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                      When I installed the new 6-post ones today I hooked green up to the left front post of the left solenoid and black up to the left front post of the right solenoid. Both front right posts were left open. There is no longer ANY power to the davit. Previously I could still bring the cable in, and the faulty solenoid would click when I was trying to let it out.

                      I assume that this would be resolved if I wire the front right posts where they need to be, I just don’t know where that is. I feel like ordering the 5-post replacements and swapping those out with the new 6-post that I just installed is probably my best bet. Anyone care to weigh in?
                      The additional post on a solenoid with 6 posts (vs 5) goes to ground. That way when you put 12 volts between the two little posts the solenoid closes.

                      KEVIN SANDERS
                      4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                      where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                      https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

                      Comment


                        #14
                        Here is a question...

                        Why are folks not just using a single reversing solenoid? Like a BEP 1002201 or a Cole Hersey 24450

                        These are around $40 and are widely used for winch motors.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	1F5DB8DA-00EA-4C01-AA56-6346C9A2846E.jpeg
Views:	62
Size:	13.5 KB
ID:	535815

                        Attached Files

                        KEVIN SANDERS
                        4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                        where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                        https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X