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**Uncle_Bob** · 01-31-2012, 03:29 PM

Your genny racor will be smaller than the mains. Having the same as the mains won't hurt but not necessary since the filters are designed for fuel flow. The genny's flow is less. You will unscrew the racors and then have to unscew the see-through bowl. Clean that and screw it onto the new filter. You then simply pour new clean diesel into the filter until it is at the brim. Any less and you will get air. The filters on the engine need to be filled too. If they are all full then you won't get any air. If you get air then you have to learn to purge it.

**p91473** · 01-31-2012, 06:25 PM

I pretty much have the same setup as you, different brand genny though. I think it would be difficult at best to change the filters on the mains from the stateroom. The angle is just not good to get the new filters back on. You have to force up and turn at the same time to get them to seat. It maybe doable, but much easier if you can crawl between the mains. I can fit, but it is tight. I would also recommend that you change the fuel filters on the Hinos as well as your Racors. They should be changed at least every other season. When changing either your Racors and or your onboard Hino fuel filters you are bound to get some air in the system. For me, I can run at idle or just above for 15 or so minutes and all seems good. The next day the air finds it's way up through the system and I have to use the Hino manual fuel pump to prime the system. This is the little white plastic pump that you turn counter clockwise to release the plunger. Pump the little guy up and down until you feel fuel going through the system. Push down and turn clockwise to turn the unit off.

**Guest** · 01-31-2012, 06:58 PM

I change the Racors from the stateroom. I first turn off the fuel, I have a wide mouth peanut butter jar I hold under the Racor and open the valve on the bottom of the plastic bowl and drain the fuel. Then I take the filter off and clean the bowl out and put the bowl on the new filter fill it with fuel and screw it back on. I also bring a one gallon can of fuel with me to fill the filters. I change the filters on the engine from the engine compartment. Is is easier to reach them. Normally by filling the filter first I do not have a problem with air in the system. After I'm done I take the fuel in the jar and pour it back into a tank being careful not to stir up the sediment in the bottom. Then I pour what ever is left in the gallon can into the tank. Fast and simple normally takes me less than 30 minutes.

**hargsnz** · 01-31-2012, 09:10 PM

I also change the racors from the stateroom - this however is due to age & the fear of not being able to get out if I got right in there from the stern. It's tricky but slow & easy does the trick for me.

I'm not sure if you can get past the Genset ( I don't have one ) - but I can't spin off the filter with one hand while holding anything underneath.

I line an ordinary bucket with a black plastic bin-liner & push it in under the filters from the stern I then go into the stern cabin, unscrew the filter & drop it straight into the bucket & then go around & extract it. I do lose that fuel - but we have a separate waste tank on our marina for it.

I do have a small can of fuel ( one from super-cheap car spares with a flexible spout ) I fill the new filter & spin it on. I do end up with some diesel in the bilge & I usesome ordinary bilge-cleaner to neutralise it & soak it up with a large sponge.

Same for the small one - straight into the lined bucket. It can't go directly underneath here - but it's easier to get at. I'm just not equipped to move that filter around full of fuel with one hand while supporting another bottle underneath.

I end up disposing of the black plastic bin liner & a clean bucket.

Like most, I think, filling the filter means I've never had any problems with air.

I do the main ones first & start up & then the small mid-engine one. The hand-pump on that is easy to use - but I'm not sure how much room you have with the Genset.

In terms of the water separator, my main racors also have a clear glass reservoir which is the first place I think water would be visible as a quick check.

**smitty477** · 02-01-2012, 03:28 AM

FWIW - Diesel fuel filters are rated in various smaller micron ratings because their only contribution to the system if final filration. Usually all filters that are purchased for diesel filtration are wrapped in plastic to prevent any small particles from inadvertently being introduced to the injection pump and injectors. While this is much less important for 'upline' filters it is logically very important on the 'final' on engine filter. We do not buy on engine filters unless they come cleanly packed and sealed and then add another larger zip lock bag for storage onboard for the time period prior to use.

When installing this final filtter we do take great care (cleanliness) from the time the the old filter is actually removed untill the new one is installed.

For the reasons stated we do not prefill an on engine filter as 'dirt' introduced here will quickly defeat the purpose of the filter change.

It is pretty easy to 'bleed' the on engine filter with the pump (as posted) and the bleeding bolt at the top.

Hope this helps

**Uncle_Bob** · 02-01-2012, 09:40 AM

It wasn't asked but what about microns? My 3288 came from Bayliner with 2 micron racors. A number of mechanics told me that 2 micron primaries were over kill since the engine mounted filters are 2 microns. After 500 hours I changed to 10 microns on the racors and did not notice any difference over the next 1200 hours or so. My current Cummins came with 30 micron racors. My recommendation to Nikko? 10 microns and you can get a discount if you order them from Les Hall filters on Esplanade. (buy 6 and enter from lane).

**smitty477** · 02-01-2012, 10:31 AM

"Uncle Bob - It wasn't asked but what about microns" , "My current Cummins came with 30 micron racors"...

Your on engine (final) filters for the Hino's were 10 micron and the upline filters were 30 micron.

Answers regarding the Cummins application would require the year and model of Cummins that you are reffering to.

There are good articles to read at Sbmar.com on this subject especially for Cummins or at boatdiesel.com..

I suggest reading Tony's articles at SBmar rather than the feedback from us here.

But if you prefill the filters the filtration for that fuel is zero.

Hope this helps

**Nikko** · 02-01-2012, 10:38 AM

Uncle Bob wrote:
It wasn't asked but what about microns? My 3288 came from Bayliner with 2 micron racors. A number of mechanics told me that 2 micron primaries were over kill since the engine mounted filters are 2 microns. After 500 hours I changed to 10 microns on the racors and did not notice any difference over the next 1200 hours or so. My current Cummins came with 30 micron racors. My recommendation to Nikko? 10 microns and you can get a discount if you order them from Les Hall filters on Esplanade. (buy 6 and enter from lane).

thanks Bob - my filters (all of them) came from Les Hall and I did enter from the lane

**Uncle_Bob** · 02-01-2012, 10:50 AM

Smitty, nope my Racors on the Hinos were as described. I wasn't looking for advice on the Cummins. I am simply stating how they came. You are correct, of course, about the filled filter being filled with unfiltered fuel thereby defeating the filtration purpose. The question is whether there is any unreasonable risk for the proportonally minute volume a full filter holds. The purist rolls his eyes at filling filters but I am quite comfortable with the risk exposure.

**smitty477** · 02-01-2012, 11:12 AM

"Uncle Bob - Smitty, nope my Racors on the Hinos were as described"

Did you purchase the boat new?

The Bayliners with Hino's (mechanical) I am familiar with all had 30's and also had the 'red' posted 'dots' on the racors signifying the 30's. In the handboos they also called out for 30's - not saying that you cannot use alternative filters but just pointing out the way they came.

"The question is whether there is any unreasonable risk for the proportonally minute volume a full filter holds" - interesting view on risk as the on engine filters are called out for 10 micron's filtration. We spend a bunch of time talking which exact filter to utilize but it is the overall process of eliminating dirt into the sytem that is the end goal. In my experience we have never lost an injector or experienced a poor performance due to this issue - nor on any of my friends boats which I have assisted in the filter changes.

One analogy I use is that if I was getting blood transfusion that required filtration how would I feel if there was already some blood downstream of the filter?

Similarly on outboards, cars and other applications it is just to easy to do it the right way - but every owner makes his or her own choice.

Often you can see them posting back here with another problem - coincidence I do not think.

Hope this helps

**Uncle_Bob** · 02-01-2012, 11:24 AM

Yes, bought new. Guess what they say they came with and what was actually installed might be only as good as the assembly crew.

**Guest** · 02-01-2012, 07:23 PM

Well I will be the first to admit that I do not know everything and the older I get the more I wonder if I know anything. But when I take my nice clean one gallon can off the shelf in the garage and take it to the gas station to fill it with Diesel it certainly looks like there is a filter hooked to the pump. And I have always assumed the diesel was flowing through that filter. And with the volume of fuel they have flowing I would not think it had very many bugs in it? Are you telling me the fuel coming out of that pump is not filtered? Or is dirty?

**smitty477** · 02-02-2012, 03:52 AM

"Guess what they say they came with and what was actually installed might be only as good as the assembly crew"

It is logical to think that Brunswick ordered 100's of filters to a specification and they were in turn installed into various boats on the asembly line. It is very likely that these 'filter assy" were not packed in indiviudal wrappers like for us but shipped in a bulk fashion always as an assy with their filter elements and fittings in place. I cannot guess as to whether the order was mixedup, the item shipped was wrong, or the install was the problem but there is no way to see the rating on the element within the filter as shipped. They should have had a 'red' dot label placed on the outside of the filter and a corresponding filter ID inside the filter handbook that they give you with the large boat handbook (big ring binder).

"And I have always assumed the diesel was flowing through that filter. And with the volume of fuel they have flowing I would not think it had very many bugs in it? Are you telling me the fuel coming out of that pump is not filtered? Or is dirty?"

Not a simple answer to a good question - here are a few things to consider for that answer.

- Diesel at fuel stations is not much different (if at all) from home heating fuel

- In the large storage tanks where diesel is stored there accumulates 'truckloads' of sediment

- I am aware of the above because I actually did tank cleaning at one point in time (inside the tank)

- Transferring and distributing diesel churns up the sediment while much is also mostly removed

- You will find that filters on fuel delivery systems are 'enclosed' and unlabeled

- The fuel filters that are on the 'pumps' often do not have elements inside of them

- When they do have elements in them they often utilize very large micron ones so they do not need changing

- There is also the 'stuff' that comes from the accumulation at the nozzle, hose and in transfer

If you were to have the time, motivation, and patience you could take that one gallon can and slowly and carefully pour it through a large white coffee filter as a test.

With all of that said I have just found it too easy to do it right and not be concerned about unfiltered fuel. The bleeding instructions are in the manuals for that specific reason as is the proecess of changing filters. My diesel container is still used for prefilling the Racors before the HIno's but the genset and the diesel truck engines I deal with are all self priming so they do not need prefilling at all - and not recomended in the handbooks either.

Hope this helps

**Guest** · 02-02-2012, 04:44 AM

smitty477 wrote:
"Uncle Bob - It wasn't asked but what about microns" , "My current Cummins came with 30 micron racors"...

Your on engine (final) filters for the Hino's were 10 micron and the upline filters were 30 micron.

Smitty477: Do you mind if I ask where you found the 10 micron rating for the Hino engine mounted secondary filter? I have inferred that 10 micron is correct, but only because I could not find any filter offered for a Hino engine application that was smaller than 10 micron, but never where it was specifically called out for these engines. Thanks, Dean

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