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Questions on Manicooler Ceramic Coating and Flushing Engines

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    Questions on Manicooler Ceramic Coating and Flushing Engines

    Two part post. Part 1:

    So I dropped off the manifolds, bundles, and acc. at Culpeppers in Portsmouth http://www.culpepperradiator.com/. I checked in today when I dropped the end caps off and they had started on bead blasting one of the manifolds and filling in the ends of the tube bundles with fresh solder where the original was eaten away. One end was swiss cheesed and the other end didn't have any solder left? Once repaired they will pressure test them. The manifold has some pitting on the seal ramp on each end which they can fix with a metal epoxy repair. So far he said they look to be in good condition for 30 years old. I told him my plan of having them ceramic coated to which he mentioned he doesn't know of too many who have it done and to make sure they know what they are doing and then proceeded to show me a pallet of Cummins coolers he is working on that has a black interior coating flaking off Any coating according to him won't relieve me of maintaining the coolers and he recommended regularly pulling and servicing them regardless (every 3-5 years). Sound advice? But it is also his business model it seems...drop off coolers and pick up in a week ready for several more years until next service. If I decide to not ceramic coat right now, they can have them assembled and pressure tested and back to me by next week.

    I did not find an "all-in-wonder" shop to take care of everything I originally wanted to do. To proceed with the ceramic coating I think I need to find a machine shop to weld and/or machine the sealing faces. Then, what kind of questions do I need to ask to make sure the guy ceramic coating them knows what he is doing? The guy I got quotes from is a long time automotive ceramic and powder coater.

    This then leads into Part 2:

    How do I flush all the mud and white chunky crystals and precipitate out of the engines so they are clean? I did an "emergency manicoolerectomy" last summer (long story) and flush the block out as best I could with a hose and filled everything back up with DI Water and Pink Diesel Anti-Freeze. When I pulled the cooler last month it still managed a coating of mud (though not as thick) and the bottom of the cooler was filled with several teaspoons of white flaky precipitate. Some of the pitting in the cover pieces had clear, semi gelatinous crystals forming. I assume then that I still have contamination in the cooling passages. How do I rid the engine block of this?

    Thanks! Any and all advice and experiences are appreciated!
    . . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

    #2
    Let me start by saying I don't have Hinos or manicoolers. The Cummins 370's service advice would suggest cleaning aftercoolers every 200-300 hours or say 2-3 yrs. Pulling the complete asssembly off is best, then pulling the core out in the garage or workshop is easiest. I've gotten used to the task and 30 mins can have one removed. If they are assembled as per the Seaboard way, the cores are easy to push from the housing for subsequent cleaning with disc brake cleaner sprayed thru the fins (reverse air flow direction) and boiling water. Some have them pressure tested at that point, before reassembly. The heat exchangers aren't that hard either to get off for core cleaning.

    I guess the Hino manicooler is more time consumming to get off for maintenance, so for me it would be a trade off for the cost of the ceramic coating vs ongoing the cost of removal/cleaning maintenance every say 5 yrs. I know they are damn heavy, but is the task something that can be accomplished by a competent diy mechanic to save $$$?? The intercooler it would seem would be in the same service sequence at the same time. So it would be a trade off I think. The Hino experts either Smitty or Earle would be the best to contact for their views.

    My 2 cents from a non Hino owner.... Cheers
    John H
    Brisbane QLD Aust
    "Harbor-nating"

    2000 - 4788/Cummins 370's

    Comment


      #3
      Okay, so shipping costs are going to need to be factored in, but these guys know the manicoolers, have a welding repair and machine shop that they work with, and I think, share people, all in one building or across the street from each other. I looked at UPS from Charleston to Auburn and it could be done for about $90 each way assuming a 40# package.
      https://www.performancecoatings.com/
      Were it mine, I’d ship the cooler and end plates and have it all matched up. A couple of things I learned along the way, one being that the manicoolers had a habit of shedding casting sand for years. Hence the short cycle for coolant changes. This old, cleaned out and especially ceramic coated should make that a nonissue and cycle time for the coolant may be increased. Although the ceramic coating should or could act as an insulator, I’d still be checking that there is no continuity between the bundle and the manicooler when it’s all assembled.
      The flaking on the Cummins coolers sounds more like powder coating to me, and, yes, that can happen. Powder coating is basically baked on paint where ceramic is baked on glass......oh, yeah, glass is made from sand....better not think about that too much.
      P/C Pete
      Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
      1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
      Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
      1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
      MMSI 367770440
      1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
      Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for the reply's. If it wasn't for the season starting and me feeling the time crunch I might not be as wishy-washy! I'm going to try for a more local solution, or if I can clean the engines out, just put them in as assembled from the shop.

        Any advice on how to clean out the cooling jackets or old mud?
        . . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

        Comment


          #5
          Take the bolted on plates off and get in there with a bottle brush. Look carefully at each of the cover plates for pitting. I had one that made it close enough to a bolt hole to cause a drip. I cleaned it up, okay, so I cheated a bit and used a fly cutter on my mill, chased the threads in the casting and on the bolts then used permatex to seal it. There are no gaskets used on those plates.
          Make sure the bundle slides in and out easily so that it gets suspended by the rubber o rings at the ends. There should be no continuity between the bundle and the manicooler housing.
          P/C Pete
          Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
          1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
          Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
          1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
          MMSI 367770440
          1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
          Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

          Comment


            #6
            I meant the rest of the engine block, but thanks. The manicoolers are bead blasted as part of their clean up and they are basically waiting on me to make a decision to collect them as is, or to assemble, test and paint them so I can reinstall them. If I thought I could get nearly all of the mud out of the block cooling passages, I'd be less hesitant to just put them back in non-coated. I found a local machine shop that might be able to touch up the ends.
            . . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

            Comment


              #7
              CB,

              couple of thoughts: I had my coolers ceramic coated inside and out. I would do it again and will suggest you do too. I can’t even imagine removing and cleaning those coolers every three years as normal maintenance, no thanks! I believe the ceramic coating will help prevent the interior wear of coolant cavitation bubbles. If you replace the coolant every couple of years or so I doubt you’ll see much mud build up but you can easily check this by removing one of the inspection panels on the side of the cooler. YMMV
              Jim Gandee
              1989 3888
              Hino 175's
              Fire Escape
              Fyrflyer@ca.rr.com

              Comment


                #8
                Interesting timing on this post. I am currently going through the manicooler blues myself. Removed the starboard one last summer and finally got around to pulling the covers off and the heat exchanger out this last weekend. Things didn’t look so good. Quite a bit of corrosion in the aluminum casting. Currently pondering the different repair options.
                Just a few thoughts on the ceramic coating. I own a small metal fab shop and one of the processes we do virtually every day is ceramic coating. There are quite a few factors that will affect the performance of the coating. Not to go into a long list, but a few particulars that directly relate to coating manicoolers would be proper prep and application. We would blast the entire unit and then bake it, to burn out any impurities impregnated in the casting. We actually blast it a second time before the ceramic application. This is where it gets a little iffy. The coating needs to be applied with about a one mil thickness. Too little, there isn’t enough barrier and the corrosion will work its way through. Too much and the coating cracks during the baking process. You wouldn’t think too thick is an issue, but you can count on a crack in the coating where ever there is a run. That being said, all those nooks and crannies inside that manifold leaves quite a few opportunities for material thickness variations. Not to rain on anyone’s ceramic parade, but we fight those battles every day. Since we mostly coat headers, I can't give you any direct coating results on this particular application. Someone that does a lot of these may have more insight.
                By the looks of my manifold, ceramic coating will be the least of my issues.

                Comment


                  #9
                  +1 on Jim, our Maincoolers are cermic coated from a few years back and appear clean on our check last month.
                  Mark
                  USCG OUPV
                  1990 4588
                  Carlsbad, CA

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I had my manicoolers ceramic coated. I understand that it does protect them, particularly from the cavitation, that is, the very fine bubbles that act almost like bead blasts on the inside of the cooler. I took them to a 'hot rod' type shop that is used to ceramic coating engine parts. Only issue is not coating the faces.
                    Bay Seeker
                    1994 3288

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yeah, the ceramic coating place that is local is a custom car place that does engine internals and exhaust and etc. I pick up the manifolds tomorrow morning before I go into to work. I'm going to swing by the machine shop and see what there recommendation is for the sealing faces. if they aren't THAT bad I wonder if the can just take a couple thousands off and adjust the bundles accordingly.

                      I did contact Performance in Washington and I'd be getting the manifolds back in early April. Shipping times are 2 business weeks round trip
                      . . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I had my manicoolers ceramic coated at Performance Coating 8 years ago and they look sparkling new today. I also replaced the risers with stainless steel can-type and they look spanking new too.
                        Two C's 1990 3888 MY, 175 Hinos, Hurth 630 Trannys
                        Past Commodore Emerald Rose Yacht Club
                        Member International Order of the Blue Gavel
                        MMSI: 338030604

                        Comment


                          #13
                          They do ceramic coat everything. A 3m abrasive disc can take off the coating for the faces. That's what I did with Earls advice.
                          1985 3870 175hp Hino's

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Quick update and I'm going to get these done locally. I took them to a local machine shop that said they can repair the o-ring seats and a couple other areas. After the sandblasting, the o-ring faces on the untouched 30 yr old manifold were quite rotten Not cheap, but all said and done hopefully I will have like new manicoolers that should last for many more decades for about half the cost of one replacement

                            Any ideas or instructions on how to flush the crud out of the motors?

                            Thanks!
                            . . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

                            Comment

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