Repair quote-gctid403105

[Guest]

Need some help with a repair quote. I received and authorized a repair on my boat at north harbor diesel. They finished the repairs and sent me a bill for 4000.00 dollars more than the estimate. I am going done tomorrow to talk to them, any idea on my rights or strategies. Thanks Roman

[Guest]

Holy cow, $4,000 more than the original estimate? Usually being within say $500 is not an issue, or within a certain percentage. But I would've, at a bare minimum, required a phone call to authorize that big of a difference verbally. Daggum. Can you provide specifics? of the repair? labor involved? If it was a $40,000 repair i can see a difference of $4,000 being high but not necessarily uncalled for. If it was quoted for $10,000 and came in at $14,000 I would've crapped my pants.

[Guest]

I have not been too happy with them either. I contracted to do testing of one of my engines that was smoking. After they made several trips to the boat nothing had been diagnosed but a large bill mostly to drive back and forth to the boat. I fired them.

[ksanders]

I have had very good results from NHD.

I would give them a call and ask what the story is.

While $4K sounds like allot, it really depends on the size of the job initially, wether the quote was a guesstimate based on them not actually looking at the boat before hand, or wether it was a quote based on them looking at the boat.

We have very little to go on from your post.

[Guest]

luckydog wrote:
Need some help with a repair quote. I received and authorized a repair on my boat at north harbor diesel. They finished the repairs and sent me a bill for 4000.00 dollars more than the estimate. I am going done tomorrow to talk to them, any idea on my rights or strategies. Thanks Roman

Hello Roman,

I am just curious what the nature of the work was.

Thanks,

C

[Guest]

North Harbor was hired to do a service(oil,filters, impellers,engine zincs,after cooler service)on a 40 meridian with twin 370 cummins. They came back with a quote that included replacing both pumps, said the after coolers were bad and some generator part replacement(water pump, heat exchanger ) with the service, the estimate of 9k. The repairs were approved. The bill came to us at 14k, no calls, emails to the change of cost. Not a happy camper, they also wanted to pull the boat to replace the pyy packing, stating the packing had salt on it! Also wanted to shim the alternator to get rid of belt dust. That work was not done, sent the copy to Tony at Seaboard Marine. He told us to find another facility(in not so nice wording). Had another shop look at it and tell us there was nothing wrong with the dripless packing, and the alternator dust was normal. In owning over a dozen boats, never seen such deceptive practice. Meeting this week to straighten this out. Thanks for the input

[ALASKAN_ADVENTURER]

NHD is to big for there pants, dont pay it. If i tell you 1,800 for a boat top then that is the price,

unless you said wath ever it takes then shame on you. of course they will bend you over

[ksanders]

luckydog wrote:
North Harbor was hired to do a service(oil,filters, impellers,engine zincs,after cooler service)on a 40 meridian with twin 370 cummins. They came back with a quote that included replacing both pumps, said the after coolers were bad and some generator part replacement(water pump, heat exchanger ) with the service, the estimate of 9k. The repairs were approved. The bill came to us at 14k, no calls, emails to the change of cost. Not a happy camper, they also wanted to pull the boat to replace the pyy packing, stating the packing had salt on it! Also wanted to shim the alternator to get rid of belt dust. That work was not done, sent the copy to Tony at Seaboard Marine. He told us to find another facility(in not so nice wording). Had another shop look at it and tell us there was nothing wrong with the dripless packing, and the alternator dust was normal. In owning over a dozen boats, never seen such deceptive practice. Meeting this week to straighten this out. Thanks for the input

Luckydog

Are you talking about the North Harbor Diesel in Anacortes, Washington?

The reason I ask is that your profile indicates you are in long beach. I also enquired of Justin Mitchell over at North Harbor Diesel and he indicated that he has no Knowledge of your boat, or your issue as of 2:00 PM today, but is happy to discuss anybodys invoice with them and rectify, and or explain any concerns.

Are we we even talking about the same repair shop?

[ksanders]

Flyboy III wrote:
I have not been too happy with them either. I contracted to do testing of one of my engines that was smoking. After they made several trips to the boat nothing had been diagnosed but a large bill mostly to drive back and forth to the boat. I fired them.

Flyboy III

According to NHD, your boat is Laconnor, and is approx 1/2 hour drive from North Harbor diesel in Anacortes.

You were charged a total of $574.40 for the work that was done to your boat.

NHD responded to your repair request about a smoking engine.

They found and replaced a plugged fuel filter.

They remeoved your injectors, cleaned and calibrated them, then reinstalled them.

They adjusted your valves.

They seatrialed your boat.

As a third party, and someone that is pretty experienced mechanically with diesel engine repair I can tell you that the actions they took were the correct actions to attempt to diagnose a smoking engine. I can also tell you that especially when you factor in driving time which is billable by almost every shop, a charge of $574.40 is very reasonable for that service. It would have taken at least two trips out there to do that job, possibly three depending on how they attacked the problem, and the information they had about your engine prior to being dispatched the first time. That amounts to at least $200 or your bill right there.

I do not know if their work fixed your engine, I did not ask. But wether it did, or did not is not relevant, what is relevant is that their actions were in my opinion, having both sides of the story appropriate, and their costs were less than I would have expected them to be.

[Guest]

There is a Harbor Diesel in Long Beach.

[Guest]

ksanders wrote:
Flyboy III

According to NHD, your boat is Laconnor, and is approx 1/2 hour drive from North Harbor diesel in Anacortes.

You were charged a total of $574.40 for the work that was done to your boat.

NHD responded to your repair request about a smoking engine.

They found and replaced a plugged fuel filter.

They remeoved your injectors, cleaned and calibrated them, then reinstalled them.

They adjusted your valves.

They seatrialed your boat.

What's going on Kevin? You're not a hidden partner with NHD, are you? If so, how do I get in on that? No need to respond to such unsubstantiated accusations.

NHD seems to have a great reputation on this forum and I'm assuming, given the poster has not responded, that this is another shop originally referenced. They have treated me extremely well on parts and returns, well above their obligations on such.

As to the bill stated above, I think I'd be ecstatic with that amount of service for that amount of money. Troubleshooting is difficult as we all know, but given those services need to be completed periodically, seems very reasonable and money well spent. I'm glad you posted the numbers because maybe it's time I just start paying others to do some of this stuff given my knees are going out and all that wonderful room available in the 32 engine bay. Dean

[Guest]

Because I believe they diddled around and did the unnecessary, did not comply with my instructions, and spent most of their time driving not diagnosing. First, they just plain forgot about the job, I had to call repeatedly just to get them to start the work. Check on that fact-ask Fred at NHD. The fuel filters were fine (there are two for each engine and they could have just switched to the second filter and trial, yet I told them the filters were fresh since I do them myself so I had already eliminated this step but they ignored what I told them), valves were fine, injectors were fine. Obviously, since the problem was not corrected by changing/adjusting them. I told them Earl had done this very work the Fall before, with few hours on the boat since, with no change in the smoking. Each small item, like a change of filters, was a single trip. Why? Can't we do multiple jobs in one trip? I offered to move the boat to Anacortes at a time convenient for them and was told they did not want to have that done. For $574.40 I found out my engine smoked and jobs I had already paid for were repeated! But thanks for checking, Mr. Sanders, because it is thoroughly relevant that a lot of money was spent to drive mechanics back and forth with no results and no forecast of results in the near future. I guess you were so intent on getting their 1/2 of the story that you forgot the other half belongs to me.

NHD probably doesn't need anyone to defend them, they do a lot of good work for people, but they aren't perfect, and neither am I-but you should allow me my opinion based on my impression of the facts; let's see, yeah, you weren't there... I stand by my comment, I was unhappy with the work and was not going to let a bad situation continue. I related the same to Fred. I related the same in this forum.

Upset? No, unhappy-yet I paid the bill without quibble because they spent their time. I just did not like how they spent it. I will be the one who determines how my repair dollar is spent. One sided? No, many are happy with their experience, as you said, it is reflected in this forum. One sided would be if everyone said it was all roses and never said they had a bad experience.

Dean, I've responded. Have I substantiated my comments? Thank you.

Sorry to hijack a thread, apologies to "luckydog"

ksanders wrote:
Flyboy III

According to NHD, your boat is Laconnor, and is approx 1/2 hour drive from North Harbor diesel in Anacortes.

You were charged a total of $574.40 for the work that was done to your boat.

NHD responded to your repair request about a smoking engine.

They found and replaced a plugged fuel filter.

They remeoved your injectors, cleaned and calibrated them, then reinstalled them.

They adjusted your valves.

They seatrialed your boat.

As a third party, and someone that is pretty experienced mechanically with diesel engine repair I can tell you that the actions they took were the correct actions to attempt to diagnose a smoking engine. I can also tell you that especially when you factor in driving time which is billable by almost every shop, a charge of $574.40 is very reasonable for that service. It would have taken at least two trips out there to do that job, possibly three depending on how they attacked the problem, and the information they had about your engine prior to being dispatched the first time. That amounts to at least $200 or your bill right there.

I do not know if their work fixed your engine, I did not ask. But wether it did, or did not is not relevant, what is relevant is that their actions were in my opinion, having both sides of the story appropriate, and their costs were less than I would have expected them to be.

[ksanders]

toukow wrote:
What's going on Kevin? You're not a hidden partner with NHD, are you? If so, how do I get in on that? No need to respond to such unsubstantiated accusations.

NHD seems to have a great reputation on this forum and I'm assuming, given the poster has not responded, that this is another shop originally referenced. They have treated me extremely well on parts and returns, well above their obligations on such.

As to the bill stated above, I think I'd be ecstatic with that amount of service for that amount of money. Troubleshooting is difficult as we all know, but given those services need to be completed periodically, seems very reasonable and money well spent. I'm glad you posted the numbers because maybe it's time I just start paying others to do some of this stuff given my knees are going out and all that wonderful room available in the 32 engine bay. Dean

Nope, not affiliated at all, just a customer.

When people post here, we only get one side of the story, good or bad. When post(s) are in a negative light towards a company, their business may suffer in the long term because of the one sided nature of the upset persons posting.

My goal is to provide both sides of the story, where I can. Since I know most of the staff at NHD, I felt it appropriate to foward them a copy of the thread so they could provide the other 1/2 of the story if they were so inclined.

They replied, and authorized me to post their comments to keep things fair and balanced.

[Guest]

ksanders wrote:
As a third party, .... I can tell you that the actions they took were the correct actions to attempt to diagnose a smoking engine.

As a third party, do you actually have any first-hand information, or do you only know what was reported to you?

ksanders wrote:
I do not know if their work fixed your engine, I did not ask. But wether it did, or did not is not relevant,

The guy paying the bill may think it is relevant.

[ksanders]

whiskywizard wrote:
As a third party, do you actually have any first-hand information, or do you only know what was reported to you?.

I have both sides of the story, as it was reported to me.

The symptom was "smoking engine"

As someone that has isolated troubles on diesel engine many times both professionally and on my own equipment I think that an appropriate first step in isolating that issue would be to replace the fuel filter, and service the injectors. I'm not sure if I would have adjusted the valves but it is a good easy to do procedure on most engines with mechanical valve trains.

So, yes I feel that based on the reported symptom, the actions taken by the mechanic were appropriate.

As far as the charges to complete those actions, including driving, I actually thought out each step necessary to complete the task and determined that in my opinion the charges were in line with what they should be. They were actually low in my opinion.

whiskywizard wrote:
The guy paying the bill may think it is relevant.

Troubleshooting is a series of educated guesses as to what the actual root cause of the problem is. As a repair technician you gather as much data as you reasonably can, then you try something. Especially with a symptom such as a excessivly smoking engine. Its not cut and dried. Troubleshooting isn't any easier than that. A well trained and experienced technician can draw on their years of experience to help isolate the problem, but in allot of cases, especially where there are several possible root causes, troubleshooting is still a "try this" then "try that" process.

In this case it appears that the technicians first try at isolating the trouble was not successful. As I indicated above that is part of the process. In order to continue troubleshooting the problem, further costs would be incurred. If the customer does not want to incurr those further costs then there is no way a technician can isolate the problem further. Nobody works for free.

As to the comment that prior things had been tried, items replaced by others, etc... When I walk onto a customers facility, I tend to listen to the things they tried, take them with a grain of salt, and form my own opinions as to the nature of the problem. My premis is simple... If the last guy following a certain troubleshooting path was unable to solve the problem, I have zero chances of success by continuing to follow his troubleshooting logic.

So, yes Mike I feel that I have enough information, and the background to qualify my statements.