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Westerbeke - No good deed goes unpunished-gctid402950

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    Westerbeke - No good deed goes unpunished-gctid402950

    So, it is winter down under and while I use the boat minimally, I maintain it religiously.

    I swapped both primary and secondary filters on my Y2000, 12.5 KVA Westerbeke today.

    The engine element was quite bad so it was timely although it was running just fine to this point.

    Both filters bowls were refilled.

    The manual says, that to restart you need not worry about bleeding the air because the pump attached to the pre-heat will take care of it.

    I pre-heat for the recommended 20 seconds, start her up and we run for 10 seconds and shut down due to lack of fuel.

    Follow the manuals process, which is to repeat the process and I cannot get a kick. (Tried 7-8 times before surrendering). I get an occasional encouraging engagement which is not sustained

    Manual specifically states not to open anything, e.g. leave the system airtight.

    The manual tells you nothing more. Not even what the pump should sound like if it is operating correctly or at all.

    It makes a clicking sound when engaged, I am not sure whether that is what it should do?

    So what to do now? There are no manual pumps as one finds on the magnificent Hino which I no longer own.

    How does one bleed a fuel system deigned not to be bled?

    Help.

    Thanks

    Wayne

    #2
    Hi Wayne,

    One usually cracks an injector line furthest away from the pump. Then crank or turn on the pump and let it bleed out the air that way.
    Tony, Cape Cod, MA
    Vice Commodore Bourne Yacht Club
    1994 Carver 390 Cockpit Motor Yacht
    454 Merc Cruisers inboards
    "HOLODECK"
    2014 10' hard bottomed Dink powered by 3.3HP Mariner 2 stroke
    www.bourneyachtclub.com

    Comment


      #3
      There are two clicks to be heard. The first is the pulling in of the stop/run solenoid and is a single click. The second is the continual clicking of the lift pump which is no more than an electric fuel pump.

      Over the years I have had a couple lift pumps quit. Never at good times.

      Comment


        #4
        THat is good to hear, I definitely have the solenoid click as expected since it was working before I changed the filters.

        If the sound of a functioning lift pump is a continual clicking, then that is also happening. I guess it could sound right but not move fuel.

        I think my next step is a couple more tries and if that fails, find a place to bleed it. The manual not being very helpful I was not sure what to undo.

        With my Hinos I could go from dry to running in about 3 minutes flat. It is just a matter of knowing what to crack.

        I prefer manual pumps as you can pump and control the bleed in one place. My genset only starts remotely so as a one man band, it is a bit trick to bleed and crank.

        Comment


          #5
          Aussie wrote:
          My genset only starts remotely
          Are you sure? I haven't seen a genny that doesn't have local controls. They normally all come with local output breaker and start/stop switch, and then remote controls are added where needed. That same genny is sold for multiple uses (with different cooling systems), and would be used in applications where there would be no need for a remote.

          The gennies that are self-bleeding are normally pretty easy to re-start. When you filled the filter bowls, were you able to eliminate almost all air, or is there perhaps a lot of air to purge? Have you rechecked your filter bowl installations to rule out air ingress at the filter housings?

          Comment


            #6
            There is a kill switch but no preheat or starter.

            I am pretty sure the filter housings are snug on the seal rings.

            It must be an air lock of some sort.

            Comment


              #7
              I looked up your manual. It says there is a standard instrument panel with 4 guages and 3 switches (start, stop and preheat). I'm not doubting you - I believe what you're saying - it's just that the manual lead me astray.

              Here are some things to think about. You may well have addressed them already.

              Did you perhaps open a vent on a fuel filter and not reclose it?

              The manual also says that the preheat switch bypasses the low oil pressure cut out switch. That means you have to hold the preheat down when starting, and continue to hold it down after the engine starts, until you get sufficient oil pressure. Is it possible that you're dying after 10 seconds not because of fuel but because of low oil pressure?

              The manual says to use the preheat switch to run the lift pump and "monitor return fuel flow until there's no air. Is there some sightglass on the reurn line? Maybe they are expecting you to disconnect the return fuel flow line on that first start-up? Can you find the return line and crack a fitting on it?

              Comment


                #8
                No breathers open.

                You do tend to second guess everything though.

                It is not dying after 10 seconds after the first time when the residual fuel ran out, now it just turns over with no firing.

                I think my installation may not have been original. Their are some hints that the genset was replaced at some point.

                Plenty of oil pressure, even when cranking off the battery I can see it on the gauge.

                I think that the pump has nothing to grab. It is 10 12 years old so I guess when it was new it would self prime the air out. Maybe not any more?

                The thing is bullet proof, once I figure how to get fuel in the pump.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Aussie wrote:
                  No breathers open.

                  You do tend to second guess everything though.

                  It is not dying after 10 seconds after the first time when the residual fuel ran out, now it just turns over with no firing.

                  I think my installation may not have been original. Their are some hints that the genset was replaced at some point.

                  Plenty of oil pressure, even when cranking off the battery I can see it on the gauge.

                  I think that the pump has nothing to grab. It is 10 12 years old so I guess when it was new it would self prime the air out. Maybe not any more?

                  The thing is bullet proof, once I figure how to get fuel in the pump.
                  So it sounds like your next step is to disconnect the fuel return line and run the lift pump to confirm it is or isn't pumping fuel to the injector pump.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If the engine fuel filter was dirty then the filter that is in the pump will likely also be dirty. If this is the same lift pump that is on the 8kw gen. It looks like a small juice can. I think a 5/8" box wrench will remove the bottom and the filter can be pulled out and checked. Most people I have talked to do not know there is a filter in the pump. I don't have the p/n for the filter with me as I'm out of town. Westerbeke p/n 30548. Not sure if there is an alternate p/n from NAPA.

                    Bill

                    Maybe Later. 1986 3870

                    Comment


                      #11
                      My 1995 is the same as yours, I only have the remote controls and a kill switch on the gen.

                      I had problems bleeding mine too, its a long draw for that little lift pump if there is much air in the line.

                      I installed a small inline fuel pump by the fuel control panel. I turn it on and it pushes the air through the lift pump and cranks right up

                      I recently bought a 4 way valve to hook up all the engines for bleeding.

                      Earl has install these in several boats.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I am headed back today refreshed.

                        My primary is installed well above the generator so you would think that that head of fuel would help.

                        I lost very little fuel when I swapped filters so I also figured there would not be much to replace.

                        Anyway, I will give it a few goes and then (assuming that no magic happened over night) work out where to open a line to bleed it.

                        Report back this evening.

                        Regards to all

                        Wayne

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I managed to establish that here was no fuel in the lifter pump by undoing the plug above the secondary filter.

                          I used my manual oil suction pump to prime to that point and established that since the primary is above the genset I now have a continuous fuel flow after the primer pump. I was mentally composing a triumphant post for the forum.

                          I thought I may have spoiled it but now realize it is much quieter when full of fuel. Clicking but only now audible when close up.

                          After all that, it still won't start.

                          I cracked open the nut on the return at the top of the engine and nothing.

                          Since I cannot crank and watch I am now resigned to get help from the local diesel guy.

                          Regards

                          Wayne.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            If you get a remote starter switch (at your auto parts dealer) you can hook it up to the spade connector on the starter to crank and then you can manually move the fuel lever towards the flywheel to allow fuel flow.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I am surprised someone else has not suggested using WD-40 for starting fluid.

                              Comment

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