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    Bad Fuel 3270

    Previous owner mentioned the fuel in the port tank was old since he wasn't using the tank. He said its about two years old. When I run the boat up above 2500-3000 RPM the the port engine cuts out. I switched the manifold to only pull from the starboard tank and the engine runs great. I changed gas filters but it still cuts out. Is there anything I can do to save this fuel? I was thinking about maybe putting a small tube into the tank and siphoning out the bottom layer of the fuel tank (which would be water?). Any additives I can put in to help it? I have been topping it off after every use in hopes to dilute it.

    #2
    Originally posted by jake_eizy View Post
    Previous owner mentioned the fuel in the port tank was old since he wasn't using the tank. He said its about two years old. When I run the boat up above 2500-3000 RPM the the port engine cuts out. I switched the manifold to only pull from the starboard tank and the engine runs great. I changed gas filters but it still cuts out. Is there anything I can do to save this fuel? I was thinking about maybe putting a small tube into the tank and siphoning out the bottom layer of the fuel tank (which would be water?). Any additives I can put in to help it? I have been topping it off after every use in hopes to dilute it.
    Find someone that can polish the fuel, yes they can do this.
    Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

    Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
    Twin 350 GM power
    Located in Seward, AK
    Retired marine surveyor

    Comment


      #3
      im assuming you are referring to diesel... is this correct? for diesel, its very unlikely to go bad in 2-4 years, but there could be water in the tank or an obstruction in the line which is causing the problem.. as a diesel, do you have a prefilter on each tank, or are the filters common to both tanks. if the fuel from both tanks go thru the same filters, any water from tank one is going to get in the filters and plug them up for any fuel trying to get thru from the second tank.... so after just a bit of running, it will act the same on either tank... if you have a prefilter on each tank, it should trap the bulk of the water and only restrict the flow from that tank..


      if you have gas engines, it is about the same, except the fuel quality could just as easily be the culprit as a fuel filter... if its ethanol free fuel it should burn fine thru the engine UNLESS it has water in it.
      if its old ethanol fuel, pump it out and dispose of it, and clean the tank out. and either way, run some seafoam thru the system.

      if it is a diesel, and you feel the old fuel is the only problem, and NOT a water, filter or other restriction issue, an equal part, more or less, of kerosene will help revive the diesel and make it usable.

      #1 stove oil/kerosene/jet fuel ignites easier than #2 diesel does, but it has less potential energy in it, so you may not get the mileage, but you will be able to get to old diesel safely thru the system...

      WARNING... DO NOT use additives in an attempt to dissolve any "suspected water" into the fuel.... a bit of the water absorbed into the fuel can settle out of the fuel as it passes thru the pump, and after you shut the engine down, the water will start to erode the inside of the fuel pump, causing much more serious and expensive problems than you have at this time..


      NU LIBERTE'
      Salem, OR

      1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
      5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
      N2K equipped throughout..
      2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
      2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
      '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
      Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

      Comment


        #4
        Couple suggestions. I would stop pumping good gas in there. My guess is, it's water in the bottom of your tank and you can't dilute it. Pull a sample into a glass jar, see if I'm right. If you go to the bottom (exactly where your dip tube pulls from) you might get pure water, or the gas will separate in the jar. If there is a layer of water, you have a couple choices. Try to pump it out (pain in the butt) or burn it. Get plain old alcohol of the 98% variety from your local drugstore and throw a couple quarts in. Alcohol forces water to mix with the gas and make it combustible again. This is the easiest approach. Again, you have to look at the gas and see what the dealio is. There is no fuel additive that is worth the container it comes in. Alcohol works, the rest is all snake oil.
        I had a bad gasket on one of my fillers and got so much water in there I had no choice but to pump it out. You can order a bona fide 12v fuel pump on Ebay and build you a system with fuel line. If you do pump it out, it's hazardous waste and no one wants it. And, only use a real fuel pump. People blow up using cheap not fuel pumps.
        I have never heard of gas being polished, I thought that was only for diesel.

        Comment


          #5
          +1 on getting the fuel polished. I used Fuel Care in Seattle. Have both tanks done. Gas or diesel, it doesn’t matter. Yes, it’s a bit expensive, but then your tanks have been inspected from the inside and cleaned. It’s more than just dealing with the fuel. In the case of gasoline tanks, they remove the varnish that can coat the inside of any gas tank.
          P/C Pete
          Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
          1988 3818 "GLAUBEN
          Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
          1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
          MMSI 367770440
          1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
          Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

          Comment


            #6
            I had a similar situation (running issue's and high rpm)

            What we found was the screen on the pickup tub was somehow pushed all the way up the tub, thus reduced the screen area to the size of the tube and at high volume gas draw it did not take much in terms of debris/particles to restrct the gas flow.

            I say to check this because you save changine filters has no effect.

            Any water or debris in the filters?

            Ron
            1989 3218
            1988 Boston Whaler 13 Super Sport Limited
            2007 Yamaha VX Cruiser

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Pcpete View Post
              +1 on getting the fuel polished. I used Fuel Care in Seattle. Have both tanks done. Gas or diesel, it doesn’t matter. Yes, it’s a bit expensive, but then your tanks have been inspected from the inside and cleaned. It’s more than just dealing with the fuel. In the case of gasoline tanks, they remove the varnish that can coat the inside of any gas tank.
              Oh cool, I didn't know they did gas too. Although not an option here on the frontier. I'd be trying the alcohol trick because it can't hurt. I also only use marine treated fuel these days without Ethanol. Spendy but it's worth it. I also tend to run my tanks as empty as possible. Why haul all that weight around, unless you need it.

              Comment


                #8
                A few things you may want to consider:

                If fuel contamination is the problem, you should see evidence of it in the filters.

                Try blowing backwards through the fuel pickup. This may clear an obstruction on the fuel pickup screen. If you're gas, you may have check valves in the fuel lines; you'll have to be on the tank side of the check valve.

                If you're going to polish the fuel, you may want to snake a temporary pickup to the low point of the tank. If your boat is as mine was, not only are the bottom ends of the fuel pickups an inch or so above the bottom of the tank but the port tank's pickup was at the forward end of the tank. The starboard tank pickup was halfway forward on the tank. This means that, if the boat's sitting at a 5-degree angle (stern down), there's at least 15 - 20 gallons that the port tank pickup can't reach. You'd never get the crud out of the bottom of the tank polishing the fuel by using the normal fuel pickup..

                When I changed from gas to diesel, I evacuated the tanks by removing the fuel gauge sender and snaking a piece of copper tubing past the baffles to the back of the tank. This let me suck the tanks completely dry. The baffles have a 45-degree cutout at each lower side of the tank. See the photo below for an example.

                Bad fuel's tricky. Good luck.

                Click image for larger version

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                100T MMC 2307794

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by iceclimber View Post

                  I'd be trying the alcohol trick because it can't hurt.

                  I also only use marine treated fuel these days without Ethanol. Spendy but it's worth it.

                  I also tend to run my tanks as empty as possible.

                  Why haul all that weight around, unless you need it.
                  ---- the alcohol trick CAN cause harm... if the tank isnt ran dry within a day or two of adding the alcohol, the water and higher concentration of alcohol will cause the fuel to break down even further,,,
                  depending on the concentrations, the alcohol/water solution can, and likely will turn to gel, in a couple of weeks and create a real problem that only a thorough manual cleaning of the system can fix...
                  one should never use alcohol in the fuel unless you are going to immediately run the tank dry.. the ethanol laced fuel ages quickly as it is, and when it its not enough to absorb the amount of water in the system, there is a problem in the tank that adding more alcohol isnt going to fix....

                  ---using only ethanol free fuel is the only solution one can do to minimize fuel system related maintenance costs...

                  --- running the tank empty, there are pros and cons to this.
                  if the tank hasnt been run dry, extremely low, or cleaned in a long time, there is undoubtedly debris in the bottom of it.
                  so if one runs low on fuel, the last bit of fuel sloshing about in the tank will pick up the debris and it will pass into the filters (hopefully one has good filters installed)... and if one is on an excursion out and away from help, this is a real problem.
                  this is the most common reason that people have fuel related problems when on the ocean or coming back in over the bar... low on fuel, with it sloshing about and passing the water and debris into the system, plugging filters and causing engines to quit running

                  so, if one doesnt let the tank run so low, then ONLY the top surface of the fuel will slosh around, while the debris at the bottom remains undisturbed and safely in the corners of the tank.... until it builds up so much that it HAS to go somewhere...

                  but if one regularly runs the tank super low or out of fuel on occasion, and changes the filter regularly, the tank will remain reasonably free of debris and trouble free all the time....because the little bit of debris that comes in with every fill-up, is being caught up in the filter everytime...

                  but no matter which way one chooses to maintain their fuel system, quality filters and timely changes will offer the best protection to the engines fuel system...this is more important and desirable than the constant use of ethanol free fuel, which itself is near the very top of the list.

                  and, for anyone who cares... the BALDWIN fuel filters use a media that ABSORBS and traps the water, and so prevents it from passing farther into the system.... when it has enough (too much) water, the media swells and stops passing fuel also... very few other gas filters do this, but all diesel filters do, which is why when one has a problem with their diesel engine, it will almost ALWAYS be a filter issue.

                  one can argue this is not a desired quality of a filter, but a plugged filter is much easier to deal with in ANY circumstance, than is a fouled carb or injector system.... because as soon as you change the filter, the problem goes away.




                  NU LIBERTE'
                  Salem, OR

                  1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                  5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                  N2K equipped throughout..
                  2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                  2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                  '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                  Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                  Comment


                  • iceclimber
                    iceclimber commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Disagree with just about everything you posted about alcohol and running the tanks dry, based on science and experience. But, whatever, people disagree with climate science too. Alcohol can't turn anything into gel, otherwise the HEET company would have been sued out of existence. If you don't believe me, then try it yourself in a glass jar.

                  #10
                  Ok thanks for all the good info! I have gas engines. I think I am going to check the screen on the pick up tube. Now where would i find that? If that looks good I am going to try and get that bottom layer of water out with a fuel pump or hand pump.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Here is an interesting read from West Marine. They got their information from Mercury Marine. https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvis...nol-Fuel-Myths

                    Greg
                    Newport, Oregon
                    South Beach Marina
                    1986 3270 with twin 110 HP Hino diesels. Name of boat "Mr. Darcy"
                    Past work history: Prototyping, tooling, and repair for Reinell,. General fiberglass boat repair starting in 1976.
                    Also worked as heavy equipment mechanic, and machinery mechanic for over 30 years.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by Mr._Darcy View Post
                      Here is an interesting read from West Marine. They got their information from Mercury Marine. https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvis...nol-Fuel-Myths

                      Greg
                      that about sums it up...

                      the link is specifically about ethanol fuels, so it does not even make the slightest mention of the merits of using NON ethanol fuel, which is by far a better choice.... but its not readily available in all areas of the country.

                      and the ONLY single benefit to using ethanol fuel (it may absorb a small amount of water that can get into the tank, and help it pass thru the system unnoticed) does not outweigh the reasons that a non ethanol fuel is better.... and if E15 is so harmful 9as readily admitted by all), you can bet E10 is also, but only to a slighty lesser extent... and at the very least, the E10 is on the edge of causing "irreversible" damage to the engine...
                      adding a proper additive to fresh fuel can increase the longevity and usable life of it, but ADDITIVES, added later in an attempt to improve the quality of the old gas, or in an attempt to push it thru the system, is a BAD IDEA!


                      NU LIBERTE'
                      Salem, OR

                      1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                      5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                      N2K equipped throughout..
                      2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                      2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                      '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                      Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                      Comment


                        #13
                        I just thought it was an interesting article. Any gasoline that I purchase for a boat is purchased at the marina. Another note is that in class after class that I have taken for certification as a Kawasaki commercial engine mechanic they stress the point that all gasoline fuels produced nowadays have only about a 30 day storage life as they come out of the pump. That statement probably does not included gasoline specifically for marine use, as some do claim to already have additive for long storage life. Not an expert on that subject just commenting on what the blurb on the dispenser sign says.
                        Newport, Oregon
                        South Beach Marina
                        1986 3270 with twin 110 HP Hino diesels. Name of boat "Mr. Darcy"
                        Past work history: Prototyping, tooling, and repair for Reinell,. General fiberglass boat repair starting in 1976.
                        Also worked as heavy equipment mechanic, and machinery mechanic for over 30 years.

                        Comment


                          #14
                          If I want to try and pump out the bottom layer should I run a tube down the gas inlet from where I fill up or try to pull it from one of the lines leaving the tank to the engine?

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by jake_eizy View Post
                            If I want to try and pump out the bottom layer should I run a tube down the gas inlet from where I fill up or try to pull it from one of the lines leaving the tank to the engine?
                            Either or. The Dip tube runs to the bottom of the tank. I pulled mine out to inspect it, and use the old mark one eyeball to look at what was in there. I had visions of a bunch of crap floating down there, when in fact it was water. Like some other poster mentioned the dip tubes have screens on them. I see those at pointless unless you want them to clog. When I was chasing my gas demons I just followed it from tank to filter to pump to carb. The carb has tiny filters inside the carb itself, just to mention. I don't think you have any of those issues.

                            Like I said earlier, alcohol works if you want to burn it off. (assuming it's water) Also I have determined through empirical testing it is the absolute easiest and cheapest thing to do. Also if your gas lines look aged, guess what time it is.

                            I will not put ethanol gas in my boat.

                            Comment

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