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    3870/3888 hull construction-gctid823184

    Books by Parker and McKnew list the hull of subject boats as "fully cored". I understand in some other boat brands that type of construction is an issue as they get older with water intrusion and rotting etc. What is the meaning of "fully cored" in subject boat models and what is the significance of same? Should I exclude them in by boat search and stick with the 3788 or 3988 series? Thanks

    #2
    Several folks have repeatedly responded (on other threads where you've asked this question) that the hulls on the 38xx's are not cored, they are solid fiberglass. I can speak with authority on mine, as I know it's solid fiberglass (a hole was cut for an EchoPilot Forward-Looking Sonar early this year...it's solid FRP.) The hull is also coated at the factory in what Bayliner calls "Vinylester"...whatever it is, it seems to seal the fiberglass hull quite well. I looked at four 38xx's before I bought the one that I have...none of them had any hull problems. So far, I haven't seen a 38xx that even had blisters on the hull.

    The decks are balsa-cored, which can lead to soft decks if there's been water intrusion. The worst spots are usually on the flybridge deck. (You see this a lot with boats of this vintage from various makers.) Two of the four 38xx's I looked at before buying the one I have had some soft decks on the flybridge (the first one wasn't safe to walk or sit on one side of the flybridge...the other had some soft spots on the flybridge and soft deck around the anchor windlass).

    The hulls however are not cored....there is no wood sandwiched between layers of fiberglass in the hull to get wet and rot. I would not have bought a 38xx if it had wood coring in the hull.

    Maybe the book simply has incorrect information?

    HTH,

    Dave

    Comment


      #3
      "fighterpilot" post=823184 wrote:
      Books by Parker and McKnew list the hull of subject boats as "fully cored". I understand in some other boat brands that type of construction is an issue as they get older with water intrusion and rotting etc. What is the meaning of "fully cored" in subject boat models and what is the significance of same? Should I exclude them in by boat search and stick with the 3788 or 3988 series? Thanks
      The 3888 hulls are not cored as per the Bayliner service manager we worked with about 12 years back (see email from him below)

      - Parker and McKnew have had a number of errors with some boats

      - If the 3888 was cored it would not be an issue anyway as there have been no reported issues with Bayliner cored hulls over the years.

      - Fully cored typically means sides, bottom and stern

      - Generally hulls cored with closed cell foam are greatly preferred over cores with balsa

      The 3888 was not mentioned earlier as it did not come close to meeting your initial hard spec which includes a 20 knot cruise as well as Cummisn engines.

      Here is the email from Bayliner from about 12 years back....

      Hello there,

      It was good talking to you also. Glad to hear things are going well. I have done some checking and the 45 and 48 Motoryachts had cored hulls. The 38 and the 32 did not.

      Best regards,

      Ken Naff

      Regional Service Manager

      PH: 360-403-1200

      FX: 866-914-8331
      Northport NY

      Comment


        #4
        "smitty477" post=823205 wrote:


        - Fully cored typically means sides, bottom and stern

        - Generally hulls cored with closed cell foam are greatly preferred over cores with balsa
        Excellent points in any broader discussion about cored hulls. It matters which portions of the hull are cored and with what.
        2005 Classic 242
        5.7L Bravo 2
        Portland, OR

        Comment


          #5
          "smitty477" post=823205 wrote:
          ...the 45 and 48 Motoryachts had cored hulls.
          Smitty, what was the core material on the 45's and 48's? Wood or some sort of foam?

          Thx,

          Dave

          Comment


            #6
            "davesisk" post=823225 wrote:
            "smitty477" post=823205 wrote:
            ...the 45 and 48 Motoryachts had cored hulls.
            Smitty, what was the core material on the 45's and 48's? Wood or some sort of foam?

            Thx,

            Dave
            The 45's had closed cell foam in the hull and a fairly high amount of wood in the upper sections - foredeck, flybridge deck, arch, furniture, side deck overhangs, davit support, walk around decks, ledges for machinery ,etc

            The 47 had closed cell foam in just about every location - that is after hull number 6 was produced on the 47 line.

            FWIW - Bayliners marketing words called it 'syntactic form coring"

            Somewhere around my house I have a video of the layup process at the factory, and the brochures also describe the process pretty well.
            Northport NY

            Comment


              #7
              I have kept track of whats in between the fiberglass on my boat after being thoroughly heckled and poked fun at for buying a Bayliner and being told that the cored hull is garbage and blah blah blah.. What I have actually found on my 1989 3888 is this. Starting from the front deck at the windlass and going to the window all levels of the deck are two 3/4 inch pieces of fir plywood laminated together with a fiberglass thickness of @ 1/4 on the outer surface and 3/16 on the inner. The gunnels down the sides where you walk are cored with some super hard foam resembling the inside of a Crunchie bar and the top layer of glass is almost 3/8 thick and the bottom is about a 1/4. I have never cored through the flybridge but I have installed fasteners to a 3/4" depth and I drilled out fir plywood pre drilling. Moving to the back of the boat the big deck hatches I have never drilled but the small one in the center is cored with the same crunchie foam as the sides. Underneath the framing is yellow cedar. The transom is cored with 3/4 " plywood for some of the upper portions but the below waterline is solid fiberglass over 1/2 " thick. The stringers are all yellow cedar and the bulkheads are fir ply. everything is glassed on the backside that you can't access such as the area the batteries sit on. The tunnels are quite thick at almost 3/4" a bit less in some areas. Directly in front of each motor the hull is again a bit over 1/2" and it slims down to about 3/8 by the time you get to the galley hatch. The keel in the center is a solid 1 1/4 thick on the bottom and a good inch thick on the sides. A very sturdy construction. Picture this, while working on my boat hull at the boat yard I had to move the blocks for painting and repairs. Well i'm not kidding when i tell you that i put one 20 ton jack at the very front of the boat jacked it up about an inch and every block, except for the very last one of course, was free and i could slide them out and move them. Nothing to complain about as far as boat hulls go in my opinion.
              1990 3888 Bayliner, Twin 351's

              Comment


                #8
                Great information. I added 38xx for consideration since there were more of them on the market than the 3788. As far as 20 knots concerned I know the 3788 with the 250s won't cruise at that even though literature suggests it. I went thru a sea trial and survey of one a couple of weeks ago. I really like the configuration, handling, etc. and was ready to buy it, but oil analysis on one engine was bad. May have been a fluke but that coupled with the 16 knot cruise was enough to give it up.

                Comment


                  #9
                  "fighterpilot" post=823306 wrote:
                  Great information. I added 38xx for consideration since there were more of them on the market than the 3788. As far as 20 knots concerned I know the 3788 with the 250s won't cruise at that even though literature suggests it. I went thru a sea trial and survey of one a couple of weeks ago. I really like the configuration, handling, etc. and was ready to buy it, but oil analysis on one engine was bad. May have been a fluke but that coupled with the 16 knot cruise was enough to give it up.
                  So you are now OK with a 15 knot cruise and non Cummins engines?
                  Northport NY

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If you are looking for a go fast boat, approaching 20kn, in this size range, you are going tho find them pretty rare. There are nominal cruising speeds, like the 20kn you mention, but reality sets in as you add your personal items, food, dishes, beverages and of course people. Our 1988 3818 with the 175 Hinos will cruise nicely at a current adjusted 15kn with four people, half fuel, and "weekend" provisions. However, loaded for a two week vacation and full tanks, the same rpm yields 13-14kn. When I look around, I'm passing a lot of boats in my size range and if something larger than us passes, it usually a much newer custom boat or a "canyon runner" that's been brought up from Florida and is being followed by a fuel barge.

                    Many years ago when we had our 1980 Encounter Sunbridge with the factory Mercruiser 470's the comment was made that Bayliner had never been accused of overpowering a boat. However, imo, they can be complemented for relatively good fuel economy when it comes to consumption of similar boats at similar speeds.

                    Finding the right boat is almost more personal than finding the right home. It's a very personal thing. If you and the Admiral like the configuration, the construction is sound and the "ideally would do this" list is close, go for it. We love our 38, especially after I modified the flying bridge ladder to make it much more useable for us older folks.
                    P/C Pete
                    Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
                    1988 3818 "GLAUBEN
                    Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
                    1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
                    MMSI 367770440
                    1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
                    Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "smitty477" post=823309 wrote:
                      "fighterpilot" post=823306 wrote:
                      Great information. I added 38xx for consideration since there were more of them on the market than the 3788. As far as 20 knots concerned I know the 3788 with the 250s won't cruise at that even though literature suggests it. I went thru a sea trial and survey of one a couple of weeks ago. I really like the configuration, handling, etc. and was ready to buy it, but oil analysis on one engine was bad. May have been a fluke but that coupled with the 16 knot cruise was enough to give it up.
                      So you are now OK with a 15 knot cruise and non Cummins engines?
                      I guess what you are saying is the 38 series doesn't have Cummins. So should rule them out. Like I said I was ready to accept 16 knots with good Cummins engines. Would consider taking a risk on the engine if they had been 315hp or more., but I don't want to rebuild a 250hp one. Thanks

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "I guess what you are saying is the 38 series doesn't have Cummins. So should rule them out. Like I said I was ready to accept 16 knots with good Cummins engines. Would consider taking a risk on the engine if they had been 315hp or more., but I don't want to rebuild a 250hp one. Thanks"

                        About your spec....

                        The 38 did not come stock with the Cummins engines and did not get close to a 20 knot cruise.

                        The Hino engines in the 38 are 175Hp natural diesels or the Mitsubishis which I would avoid. That same Hino engine was available in the 45 with a turbo and intercooler rated at 220 hp and could cruise the 38 at 16 -17 knots easy if the conversion was done - I have seen a few converted.

                        About the Hino's....

                        I consider them superior engines to the Cummins for a number of reasons.
                        Northport NY

                        Comment


                          #13
                          smitty447, thanks for the additional information. Guess I can eliminate the 38xx and can't afford the 39xx even though some have Cummins. At least the few I have found are 70k or so.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think the power plant you are desiring is too new and therefore the boats they would be installed in are going to be out of your price range if the 39xx is too expensive. Maybe look for some of the last model years of the 3888 with the 210 HINO 4 bangers.

                            Just asking since i haven't followed many of your threads, but whats the hang up with the Cummins?

                            EDIT: You might be looking at old sportfishers with 6-71N Detroits or CAT3208's...
                            . . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "Cool Beans" post=823404 wrote:
                              I think the power plant you are desiring is too new and therefore the boats they would be installed in are going to be out of your price range if the 39xx is too expensive. Maybe look for some of the last model years of the 3888 with the 210 HINO 4 bangers.

                              Just asking since i haven't followed many of your threads, but whats the hang up with the Cummins?

                              EDIT: You might be looking at old sportfishers with 6-71N Detroits or CAT3208's...
                              A couple of reasons. Have had two boats with Yanmars. Support here is marginal to non existent and parts are expensive. But if a boat showed up with the better 6cyl engine, (not the ones with valve problems) I would consider one with Yanmars but the price has to be better than the Cummins boat. Had a boat with Cats. Again parts were expensive and the risers for the 3208NA were hard to get. Ended up with an extra one and sold it to a man clear across to California since he couldn't get one out there.

                              Son in law has Volvos. Exhaust elbow 2500 dollars, so he had one made for 850 dollar.s. Here in the Panhandle of Florida Cummins is the safest way to go. Parts are cheaper and available and Mechanic support is easier since there are a lot of Cummins around with the engine being used in trucks. Hino, not enough power, and not a big favorite here. Appreciate your thought however.

                              Comment

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