Looking at purchasing 3587......questions......tips.......thoughts?-gctid822917

[onit]

Hello BOC folks!

New to the forums and currently looking at purchasing a 98 3587. I've searched through the posts here and don't see any real problems or negatives about the 3587/4087 series. I've had a chance to take a look at the boat in person so far and it seems like its been maintained and in good shape considering its age. Had a few questions of I could pick the brain of others that might have had or currently have this boat:

First, the details:

This boat has the dual Cummins 6BTA 5.9 M3 Diamond Series engines

around 700 or so hours.

Helm has taken a beating over the years from the sun. Gauges, seating, and plastics will likely need to be replaced.

1) Is there anything in particular to pay attention to and/or watch out for on these boats? Most everything I've seen here has been pretty positive overall

2) So far, by largest concern is service. I'm no diesel mechanic, but I would rather complete my own oil, oil filter, and fuel filter changes if possible as I have done this on past boats I've had. How in the world does anyone fit down in the engine room area? Looks like a tight squeeze to get to the battery banks, and almost impossible to get to the port side engine at all with the exception of the hatches in the cabins. I know there are other boats out there that are just as tight regarding the space too.

3) If there is something that needs to be done beyond that basic maintenance that might not be in my ability, how in the world do the mechanics get to them? Do they tend to charge more due to the time required just to get to the components? I know these engines are great if they are maintained, which I plan to do, so hopefully not something that would have to be done often.

I've had smaller boats in the past up to 25ft so this would be my first with twin engines. I'm aware of the constant maintenance that goes into most boats, but would appreciate any thoughts, tips, and tricks for a potential buyer. Plan on possibly bringing surveyor and mechanic next week, just thought I would ask everyone's opinion here first. The more I know the better!

[TenMile]

Hey there and welcome to the BOC

I don't know much about the 3587 so I will leave comments to others.

The Cummins B-series engines are a very good engine. They are fully mechanical diesels which means they are relatively simple to DIY. Parts are readily available at most diesel supply shops including the big truck places meaning parts are generally less expensive.

700 hours is nothing on those engines and they should get at least 10x that in hours. Time however is not on your side as the engine is approaching 20 years old. 100% have a diesel mechanic survey the engines. Things I would have him pay special attention to (ideally the PO has records, if not, these are negotiating items):

- Risers - generally have a useful life of about 12 -15 years and if they have not been replaced they are due. Budget $2500 (DIY Job)

- possible turbo charger rebuild (really hard to tell until the risers come off -- if there is rust, likely rebuild) - Budget $5000 (not a DIY job)

- Engine Mounts - have them closely inspected and budget to replace -- $800/mount plus labour (difficult DIY job) - $5000

- Rebuild of fuel injectors + set valve lash timing (DIY job) - $80/injector for rebuild (not DIY)

- The 6B's weak spot can be the raw water pumps - closely inspect for signs of leaks -- replace them with the SBMar pumps -- $2400 (difficult DIY due to space limitations)

- The next major weak spot are the Aftercoolers. Find out when they have been serviced. If they have not (red flag), get them service and have a leak down test performed on them. The servicing is a simple DIY job (remove them, clean the bundle, lubricate, replace zincs and gaskets and install). If they have to be replaced due to corrosion they are very expensive $3K per side or more for the parts. If they fail -- goodbye engine.

- find out when/if the raw water cooling systems have been cleaned/flushed

The Oil and Fuel filters can be a beast to get to unless you have Gumby arms. On the positive side, there is a kit you can purchase to relocate the oil filters to an easier to reach spot. Downside is that someone has to bloody their knuckles getting the kit in place.

I do find that diesel mechanics do charge more for difficult to service engines simply because it takes them longer to get access and do their service.

Good luck with the surveys. Don't mean to scare you -- just setting expectations for potential items that need to be addressed (things I wish I had known). It's worth spending the $20 and joining BoatDiesel.Com once you make your purchase. Pays itself back with the good advice. Read Tony's Tips on the SBMar site as well as he goes into detail on the B-Series maintenance.

PS: beyond the engines -- again time is not your friend -- parts are simply getting old so budget to replace things like

- macerator and fresh water pumps, washdown pumps etc (test them all -- look for signs of corrosion on the pump housing)

- bilge pumps (visually locate and inspect them all -- ensure all float switches work)

- water heater

- chargers, electrical, batteries

- windlass and switches

- navigation electronics and radios, antennas etc

[Machog]

I have the big brother, 4087 1996, had it for nearly 10 years love it.

Engine space is very tight, port side port engine, impeller, lift pump anything on that side is very tough to work on.

Other draw back its a tall boat and easily blown around when docking or maneuvering. I put a thruster in several years ago, don't use it much but can be real help special when solo.

We live on ours for 3+ months a year in San Juan & Gulf Islands. My 250 turbo Cummins are excellent engines, as with most boats its the ancillary systems, pumps etc that fail. My biggest expense so far, was replacing the water heater, it was so difficult to get out, original had completely corroded. Propane stove his huge, we have no built in generator so I got a small Honda 2000 for heating water and charging inverter and house batteries when on buoy or hook. We've had opportunities to 'upgrade' i.e get a bigger boat but for the 2 of us and occasional kids and grand kids there are almost no other boats this size with 2 staterooms and a cave that work so well.

We like having 2 heads, showers and Admiral loves the Vacuuflush toilets. 3 outdoor choices for sun and shade another plus (flybride, sun deck and for us cockpit). We have a dink on Ross Kelly Olsson davit that we can launch and recover in under a minute and as a consequence use it daily.

You don't say where you are, but inside salon is not spacious, but we are on the boat May to Sept, socializing 99% outside, in fact we haven't used the windshield wipers this season up here in San Juan and Gulf Islands (think its a record!).

It's very economical, we typically cruise around 8-9 knots and get about 5gph total. On a good day it will go over 20 knots and cruise at 16-18 knots all day-crossing the Straits etc.

Obiously, you'll do a full mechanical and structural survey-money well spent. I'm fanatical about maintance, oil, fuel, impeller, hoses, belts, hose clamps, pumps etc all get regular attention from me or my mechanic. Great advice from TenMile, my boat is 21 years old and I haven't done all those items yet!

Machog

[stargazerwa]

We have chartered several 4087 and really like the way they handled. The 4087 does get blown around abit when docking especially if it has full canvas. I think it spins much more easily using the twins than does our 4788. I would imagine that the 3587 behaves differently underway because it lacks that additional 5' of stern floatation.

All boats are compromises, on these boats you get two great staterooms plus the tiny one (our oldest loved it), but have a much smaller salon. If you live in the PNW there are lots to charter if you want to try one out.

You might checkout this website, they are authors whose previous boat was a 4087 and wrote a lot about it.

http://mvdirona.com/tag/bayliner-4087/

[simbad]

Had one for 4 years. Loved loved loved it.

For the size you can't beat use of space. Salon is a little cramped but staterooms great size. Shower good size. Mine had an extended Hull and handled great in all seas.

Yes they blow around in the wind but in 4 years I only had one very tricky docking situation.

Mine had the Hinos so can't comment on maintenance but similar to Machog. Damn was it fuel efficient.

[efarrell]

I have a 1996 for sale in Long Beach. Let me know if you want to connect on a call for your questions. I can share my experiences on mine for the last 11 years. Moved out of the area and no longer using her as often.

[mlewis100]

We have had our 3587 for just over two years now. Excellent boat, no regrets. If I was going to go any bigger it would be a pilot house from here. The value is no ladders, galley up, three rooms (with great separation for the master), two heads with dedicated shower. The cost is accessibility for mechanical servicing, lack of exterior deck storage space and possibly some personal preferences; with that said everything can be accessed by removing the following panels: galley floor, two main salon sections, aft cabin steps, aft cabin forward panel, two panels in the mid ship room. As other have stated, do your due diligence on mechanical inspections and boat surveying and wait for the right boat that has been cared for.

We have a 1995 model with 250 HP Hino diesels, great engines! I do believe either Hino or Cummins are great engines. The most important thing is to buy a boat/engines in good to great condition; whether it is Hino or Cummins shouldn't really be the deciding factor IMO. There both great engines. I do personally prefer Hinos at this point but it probably based on a combination of familiarity and engineering preference.

I do all maintenance and repairs, it is a fair bit of work but I do enjoy it as well as having the knowledge and piece of mind of what is going on with everything.

We compared the 3587 floor plan with lots of other boats, for us and certainly right now with kids and all it is a great fit. Hard to fit anymore boat into 35 feet.

Good luck in your search.