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    4788 vs 4588-gctid816734

    After 17 years with our beloved 3888, we have decided to move up. Age gets you as does the ladder to the flybridge. We have been looking for a 4588; however, several people have recommended the 4788. While the 4788 is newer and better construction materials, there is a substantial difference in price. If you have faced this same question of 45 vs 47 vs cost? We would like to hear what you chose and why.

    #2
    When we started looking for a pilot house we really liked the 4588, however the more research we did the more we determined the 47 was the better choice for us. The basic layout is so similar that at first it did not seem to be any real difference, however there are some significant but subtle things to consider.

    The first and for us one of the most significant is that the 45 uses a balsa wood core in its deck, while for the 47 (after 1997) they used a foam core. If the 45 balsa core gets wet due to leaking railing mounts or any other poorly sealed point it can turn to mush and the deck gets soft. This is a very expensive repair. $20k to $30k is typical. If you go 45 verify the core is dry and then make certain you keep all seams and attach points sealed.

    There was an article written that I found reviewing the two boats that pointed out the small 1 inch step at the top of the stair to the pilot house in the 45 and how it was a known trip hazard. Even after I read that article I managed to trip over that step on one of the boats we looked at. It is just enough that it got me even after I read that article, not a serious thing, but something to be aware of.

    We love the bright work on the 45, however I am not so excited about maintaining all that beautiful wood and the later year 47s don't have all that trim on the outside.

    The cockpit door is swapped from starboard on the 45 to port on the 47, this at least for us makes the salon feel more comfortable, but that may just be a preference for us.

    The dingy davit is far stronger on the 47, it is rated for 700lb, while the 45 is only rated at 500lb, the 45 is known for the davit pulling out of the deck and is another thing to watch for and if you go with a 45 you would want to have it modified for strength . ( a common modification )

    They eliminated the prop pockets on the 47, this actually improved performance as I understand from some articles I read the pockets are poorly designed and cause a little extra drag. They were originally added to reduce draft of the boat, however the 47 only draws 3.5 feet, so I don't know how much that matters. The pockets also collect/trap water in the cockpit bilge area and are awkward to keep dry and clean. This can lead to some oder if you let it grow green stuff.

    The radar arch on the 45's are known for dry rot issues and need to be rebuilt, they typically start to sag under normal load. However the 47 arch is stronger it has its own issues as they are a source of water leak into the salon area.

    I know it sounds like I am dissing the 45, I actually think it is a very pretty boat and yes it can be acquired for much less than a 47, but the above points are a few of the reasons we went with a 47.
    4788 PH 2001, Cummins 370's

    MMSI: 338013392
    Call sign: Sea Daze

    Exploring the Salish Sea

    Comment


      #3
      Cummins power is the big one to me. The other bits listed above are good incremental improvements but with most 4788 powered by Cummins that is worth the price bump almost by itself.

      The Hino is a good engine but the sheer number of b-series cummins out there have will-fitters making parts, not so much for Hino.
      1999 Sandpiper Pilothouse - Current
      1989 3888 - 2011-2019, 1985 Contessa - 2005-2011, 1986 21' Trophy 1998-2005
      Nobody gets out alive.

      Comment


        #4
        My previous boat was a 4588 and it was great. It was incredible in every way. At times I did have thoughts of upgrading it to a 4788, but every time I started down that road I couldn't justify the financial difference between the boats. Yes, 4788 is superior in several ways, from its core construction to its engines and pilot house layout, but the price difference was the driver.

        If I were considering between two boats and money was no object, I would lean hard toward the 4788. However, if I was trying to be frugal and get the biggest bang for the buck, I would lean toward the 4588, as the saving leaves money in the bank for significant upgrades and such that you would not necessarily be able to make to a 4788,if you wanted to.

        To level the playing field a bit, you might consider what the difference between a high quality 4588 verses a moderate of slight fixer 4788 would be. A top quality 4588 can normally be found for a bit more than the average 4588, but would probably be worth it if there's little to nothing to do, including upgrades. On the opposite side, This also applies in reverse for the 4788 and you might want to consider a so-so 4788 that you can make your own if your handy

        Sorry it's not as definitive. If money is a serious concern, a 4588 might be a good compromise.

        I hope this helps,

        BJ

        OMEGA

        5788
        BJ
        OMEGA
        5788

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the input. This really is a hard question to answer and I appreciated the input. Some minor points I have to consider is draft and height. If I have my numbers correct, the 4588 and 4788 are similar in height and draft. One question about the 4788. Was the foam core started in 1997 or 1998?

          Comment


            #6
            The other thing to consider is length. Slips for these boats are expensive and sometimes 2' can cost a lot. Also the 45 can legally use the Washington State Parks mooring buoys the 47 cannot. Anchoring is great, but some parks are so filled with buoys there is little room to anchor. Now that we have the 4788 my favorite Ewing Cove at Sucia is off limits to use.
            Partner in a 1999 4788

            Seattle, WA

            Comment


              #7
              "DryMartini" post=816849 wrote:
              Thanks for the input. This really is a hard question to answer and I appreciated the input. Some minor points I have to consider is draft and height. If I have my numbers correct, the 4588 and 4788 are similar in height and draft. One question about the 4788. Was the foam core started in 1997 or 1998?
              I believe the first 6 boats produced in 1994 had balsa in the core and then the balance of boats from hull 7 forward had closed cell foam.
              Northport NY

              Comment


                #8
                Since we have owned both 45 and 47 Bayliners we are pretty familiar with each. Here is a very old post I made about some of the differences ...

                Bayliner 45 - 47 significant list

                This is a partial list of the significant improvements on the Bayliner 47 Pilothouse compared to its 45 Pilothouse predecessor. For these reasons we determined it was well worth the time, money, and effort to move from our Bayliner 4588 to a 4788 Pilothouse. This is only a partial list and does not include anything deemed insignificant such as carpets, wall treatments, furniture color selection or the like.

                Bayliner 45 ÔÇô produced 1984 to 1993

                Bayliner 47 ÔÇô produced 1994 to 2002 (then as Meridian for another few years)

                Significant advantages of the 4788:

                ÔÇó Fwd deck construction (C)

                ÔÇó Boat deck C

                ÔÇó Arch C

                ÔÇó Boat deck side overhangs C

                ÔÇó Davit C and real capacity

                ÔÇó Flybridge furniture C

                ÔÇó Water tanks C

                ÔÇó Holding tank C and location access

                ÔÇó Hot water heater C and locations

                ÔÇó Larger areas include: salon, fly bridge, Pilot, Galley, & Fwd stateroom

                ÔÇó Stateroom floor layout

                ÔÇó Saloon and Pilothouse layout much more useable

                ÔÇó Pilothouse floor has no 'tripping' points

                ÔÇó A/C locations and serviceability/life

                ÔÇó Headroom in Pilothouse , salon, & under arch

                ÔÇó AC and DC electrical panels C and usefulness

                ÔÇó Battery locations

                ÔÇó Washer/dryer access and usability

                ÔÇó Improved power plant design and access

                ÔÇó Simplified fuel and lube oil changes

                ÔÇó Improved pre-heat systems on mains

                ÔÇó Higher cruise speed(s)

                ÔÇó Slight fuel economy increase

                ÔÇó Lack of side deck cap wood, cockpit cap wood

                ÔÇó Less bow rise, more stern lift, easier to maneuver

                ÔÇó Genset location and shield

                ÔÇó No prop pockets

                ÔÇó 2" shafts vs 1.5"

                ÔÇó Transmission capability (800's)

                ÔÇó Transmission ratios match "A" & "B"

                ÔÇó Improved cutlass

                ÔÇó Larger prop diameter

                ÔÇó Exhaust outlet location

                ÔÇó Lazerette added, lower noise as measured

                ÔÇó Easier to service engines

                The significant items we missed in the 47 that the 45 had:

                ÔÇó Spare 'pockets' at the shaft logs to control water

                ÔÇó Storage in mid cabin

                ÔÇó Slightly smaller mid cabin

                "c" = construction and/or materials
                Northport NY

                Comment


                  #9
                  "stargazerwa" post=816852 wrote:
                  The other thing to consider is length. Slips for these boats are expensive and sometimes 2' can cost a lot. Also the 45 can legally use the Washington State Parks mooring buoys the 47 cannot. Anchoring is great, but some parks are so filled with buoys there is little room to anchor. Now that we have the 4788 my favorite Ewing Cove at Sucia is off limits to use.
                  Interesting - many marinas out here know the these boats are no where near 45 or 47' in length and apply that when making arrangements for slips and the like. Some still just go by the decals on the side - for those that just read the decals perhaps just remove the '47'. Neither of the boats are near 45' anyway if anyone should measure one.
                  Northport NY

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Really the main differences between the 45 and the 47's amount to changes in construction materials used in the boating industry as the industry evolved, and the natural changes made to a model line as time progresses.

                    Around this same time frame the entire boating industry shifted building materials away from Balsa core decks to foam core.

                    Really nice, really well kept, and constantly updated 45's can be had for just over a hundred grand if memory serves correctly.

                    The same condition late production 47 is going to cost close to double that number.

                    I have a late production 4788, made in 2001. With all those advances in the boat, I really prefer the all teak interiors of the older models.

                    People talk about prefering the Cummins engine over the Hino engine, and the market price difference between Hino powered 47's and Cummins 47's reflects that preferance.

                    What few talk about, the big secret here, is the sheer number of Cummins engines that have been replaced. That is something you just do not hear about in Hino equipped boats. I believe that time has shown that the Hino is probably a much more durable engine than the Cummins.

                    If I could go back in time and do it all over again I think I woul'd probably opt for a well maintained constantly upgraded 1995 or thereabouts Hino equipped 4788, and pocket the significant difference in dollars... probably enough to buy a decent second home somewhere in the sun belt.

                    KEVIN SANDERS
                    4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                    www.transferswitch4less.com

                    Whats the weather like on our boat
                    https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddab...59665f4e4/wide


                    Where are we right now? https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "ksanders" post=816862 wrote:
                      Really the main differences between the 45 and the 47's amount to changes in construction materials used in the boating industry as the industry evolved, and the natural changes made to a model line as time progresses.

                      Around this same time frame the entire boating industry shifted building materials away from Balsa core decks to foam core.

                      Really nice, really well kept, and constantly updated 45's can be had for just over a hundred grand if memory serves correctly.

                      The same condition late production 47 is going to cost close to double that number.

                      I have a late production 4788, made in 2001. With all those advances in the boat, I really prefer the all teak interiors of the older models.

                      People talk about prefering the Cummins engine over the Hino engine, and the market price difference between Hino powered 47's and Cummins 47's reflects that preferance.

                      What few talk about, the big secret here, is the sheer number of Cummins engines that have been replaced. That is something you just do not hear about in Hino equipped boats. I believe that time has shown that the Hino is probably a much more durable engine than the Cummins.

                      If I could go back in time and do it all over again I think I woul'd probably opt for a well maintained constantly upgraded 1995 or thereabouts Hino equipped 4788, and pocket the significant difference in dollars... probably enough to buy a decent second home somewhere in the sun belt.
                      Geee Kevin - I could not agree more with your assessment.
                      Northport NY

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey, Kevin, I have not heard about the big number of Cummins engines that have been replaced in the 4788s. I've read lots of people replacing or adjusting the 24x24 props, but actual failed engines being replaced? I don't know of any personally. I know that's just anecdotal, but I personally know of four friends at my marina who have had to replace blown Volvo engines in fairly new boats, and don't know of any folks in the area who have replaced Cummins engines. Do you have any hard numbers?

                        Thanks!

                        Rob

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Found another older post ....

                          Bayliner 45 vs 47

                          There were changes made in each model year but these are some of the general differences between the mid 80's 45 and the mid 90's 47 Bayliners.

                          45 has:

                          - aluminum holding tank below pilot stairs

                          - aluminum water tanks

                          - split A/C units port of port engine

                          - batteries stb of stb engine

                          - prop pockets

                          - a decent davit

                          - wood base flybridge seats

                          - wood core in flybridge and elsewhere

                          - wood veneer on port and stb overhangs

                          - less space pilot and saloon

                          - usually gensets have no shield

                          - arch rear facing and needs attention

                          - teak cap on rails

                          - more storage

                          - "V" struts

                          - 1-1/2 " shafts

                          - watch for dry turbo's early years

                          - neat shaft pockets inside to collect water

                          47 has:

                          - no prop pockets

                          - 2" shafts

                          - less storage

                          - A/C units are under seats in pilot and master

                          - batteries at rear of engines

                          - there is a bulkhead door

                          - most gensets have shield

                          - molded seating on flybridge

                          - arch is forward and braced

                          - decking is foam core

                          - more robust davit

                          - extra space in saloon and pilothouse

                          - less space in mid stateroom

                          - more useable space on flybridge

                          - 95' and down still has all the teak

                          - most water leaks were corrected
                          Northport NY

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I believe the core material change was a mid year switch. The early 97 was balsa core and sometime in 97 they switched to foam. I don't have much detail on it. It appears smitty477 has some other data specific to hull numbers that is different then what I found when researching. His information indicates the change was in 94. I do know that at least 1 1997 year model I looked at had core issues (soft saturated deck) and I was informed they changed the core materials in 97.
                            4788 PH 2001, Cummins 370's

                            MMSI: 338013392
                            Call sign: Sea Daze

                            Exploring the Salish Sea

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "robster_in_edmonds" post=816866 wrote:
                              Hey, Kevin, I have not heard about the big number of Cummins engines that have been replaced in the 4788s. I've read lots of people replacing or adjusting the 24x24 props, but actual failed engines being replaced? I don't know of any personally. I know that's just anecdotal, but I personally know of four friends at my marina who have had to replace blown Volvo engines in fairly new boats, and don't know of any folks in the area who have replaced Cummins engines. Do you have any hard numbers?

                              Thanks!

                              Rob
                              No hard numbers Rob, Just seeing the several 4788's here on the BOC that have had new engines, or mostly one new engine, or a engine that had to be pulled (which generally means rebuilt), plus the plethora of other cummins engine failures I've seen here in other model Bayliners. I have personally, myself been involved in four Cummins engine failures attributed to overloading. That is a huge number for one guy.

                              Same issues if you read Boat Diesel.com. Tony Athens has made a living selling replacement engines, and preaching about the suceptability of the Cummins 5.9L engine to overloading.

                              The only gripe I hear about Hino engines is the fact that repacement parts require some effort to obtain, Vs just calling Cummins Northwest for a Cummins part.

                              KEVIN SANDERS
                              4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                              www.transferswitch4less.com

                              Whats the weather like on our boat
                              https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddab...59665f4e4/wide


                              Where are we right now? https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

                              Comment

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