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Fishing Dinghy on a 4588-gctid808989

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    Fishing Dinghy on a 4588-gctid808989

    All:

    We are in the search process for our next boat, which we have determined to be a 4588.

    In the fishing forum, I posted a question about rigging a dinghy for fishing, and the responses were universal: the davit crane is just not sufficient for lifting anything substantial.

    I'm not looking to put a massive dinghy up top -- but for the sake of discussion let's say a 14' aluminum skiff (#200) with a 20hp 4-stroke (#130), plus misc equipment (say #300), for a total weight + margin of safety at 750 lbs.

    I've searched the forum, and found a few threads about upgrading the crane (here and here for example). Let's assume for a moment that I make those upgrades.

    My question here is a followup... is it the crane that is the limiting factor? Or would the flybridge deck also need to be upgraded? Thoughts?
    Thanks,
    Matt B.
    2002 Bayliner 4788
    Previously: 1984 34' CHB, 1986 28' Bayliner Contessa, 1986 Catalina 30, 1976 Catalina 28
    https://mvcesc.wordpress.com/

    #2
    it is a mix of the Davit, the davit base and boat deck it self. Also which way you face the tender on the deck as that spreads load. (we do our port to starbboard with engine end bing the heavier side right over the boat deck support.

    I question 300lbs of extra weight, made some of that is removable and can be put in once the boat is in the water?

    We have upgrade our davit base with 2nd arm, strength the boat deck with highest desinty form core( our deck had dryroit) and fiberglass stringers that tie into the deck and where the davit base and arms connect to spread out that load over entire boat deck. and Upgrade to linear Hydraulic Davit from brower that does support 800lbs.

    http://www.browersystems.com/products/wc-series/

    We only lift a 500lb tender but had issue with factory arm (ours broke while lifting same tender 4 or so years back Very scare moment.
    Mark
    USCG OUPV
    1990 4588
    Carlsbad, CA

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Matt

      Yes you should,most have put up Stantons from the cap rail to the roof for extra support.

      Good luck Brad
      Brad & Sharon
      Lady Jake
      1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
      LaConner,Wa. (summer)
      2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
      kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)

      Comment


        #4
        I built/installed a new crane on my old 4588. It had a lift max of about 1000lbs. That being said, I also reinforced the crane mount by running reinforcements to the top of the aft wall and such as there is no way to swing that much weight from the stock base and set up... In addition to the crane upgrade, I also added 3in ss stanchions between the upper deck and the rear of the cockpit at each corner. After I did that I had no problem lifting and carrying a heavier tender. It worked great.

        I hope this helps,

        BJ

        OMEGA

        5788
        BJ
        OMEGA
        5788

        Comment


          #5
          I built/installed a new crane on my old 4588. It had a lift max of about 1000lbs. That being said, I also reinforced the crane mount by running reinforcements to the top of the aft wall and such as there is no way to swing that much weight from the stock base and set up... In addition to the crane upgrade, I also added 3in ss stanchions between the upper deck and the rear of the cockpit at each corner. After I did that I had no problem lifting and carrying a heavier tender. It worked great.

          I hope this helps,

          BJ

          OMEGA

          5788
          BJ
          OMEGA
          5788

          Comment


            #6
            I used to put my 12 foot aluminum on top of my 47 but I don't think the 45 davit could handle it.

            It was a PIA trying to use from up there. We towed it for a few years and got a lot of use out of it. It towed well enough but was a bit light when we got into heaver seas. It skipped on top of the swells and got air once in a while.



            I didn't like having the added weight on top. The boat rolls well in beam seas without it.

            Once you make the commitment to tow you aren't as restricted on size and shape. For people who like to fish and crab having a standalone boat is the way to go. Its keeps the mess off the main boat and all your gear out of the way.

            I ended up with a 19' center console cat with a 115HP ob. It tows great.




            The advantages of towing are:

            The boat is always ready to use. So if you're going to shore tie its right there. You don't have to mess around getting it launched and the swim platform is always clear.

            In an emergency you have a good place to go if you have to leave the main boat.

            It also give you the ability to tow the big boat without calling sea tow.

            With a larger boat you can keep it set up for fishing and crabbing and still have room to haul peoples.

            I put it on the port side when docking. This makes a great spot to stand while fueling.

            I had an issue (self-induced) one time where I lost both engines. I used the 12 foot aluminum with the 10HP to get the boat to shallower water so I could anchor. Another time we anchored close to an underwater mud shelf. It was not problem until we had to mess around clearing the anchor and the wind blew us onto the mud. The running gear was just on ground and the tide was going out. I had the little boat tied to the back and just jumped it and pulled the big boat off the mud. I wouldn't have had time to get it down from the FB.

            The negative things are:

            You have to let it out when moving and bring it in when anchoring or going into port.

            When you go into marinas you have to account for having it tied to the side or have someone run it to the dock. I've found most marinas work with you and it's not a problem.

            This activity can be dangerous in choppy conditions. A couple years ago we met a guy in BC that ran solo and towed his tender. He was tying his tender to the side in heavy chop and crushed his hand between the boats.

            There must be a fuel penalty but I don't monitor my fuel close enough to tell you what it is. Ron or Mickey may have some numbers on this.

            In addition to the tow boat I normally carry my 9 foot inflatable on the bow. I have a 4HP for it and we use it sometimes for gunk holing. It's more fun down on the water. As disused on the Fire thread I think having the inflatable on the bow is a good thing for emergencies.

            Chris


            Attached files

            Comment


              #7
              mattkab

              +1+1+1 to what pacrimrat has outlined. we also tow a 20' fishing/exploring boat behind our 4788. it takes a little getting used to pulling it up and tying it off to the port side to anchor/tie off to a dock etc but in my experience it is well worth it. also in big following/quartering stern seas it acts as a sort of a sea anchor and really helps to maintain control. we tow on a 90 foot bridle. its great to hop aboard and run 20 miles away to fish/explore. another point is, we consider it our "get home" boat in case something drastic happens to the mother ship. we keep a ditch bag with supplies, 5 gallons of water, freeze dried food,etc aboard it. my pease of mind.

              Comment


                #8
                Cool thread...I recently picked up a Triumph 150 15' center console...it's lightweight at ~1000 lbs (polyethylene hull), but way too heavy to try to carry ON a 38xx. We have thought about possibly towing it with us IF we were going somewhere to anchor for a day or two (there's an area not too far from us that we've been talking about.) I think it would be a pain to tow if we were going to another marina (the docks in my part of the country wouldn't be so cooperative, I don't believe...they would be happy to accomodate it but would want to charge for two slips), but if we're going to anchor, that might be the ticket. I also like the idea of getting a lightweight inflatable and storing it on the bow (possibly along with an electric outboard or one of the Behr propane outboards)...sure seems like a good safety item after reading about our fellow forum-ite's fire. (I do have a 13' kayak on the bow now...but the reality is that could only float 3 people max.)

                Here's a pic of the "fleet"...LOL.



                Any advice on towing this 15-footer behind a 38xx? I've never done this before (I did tow a 7 foot inflatable behind my prior 30 foot sailcat occasionally, but both of those are totally different animals.) I don't believe I have any tow rings on the 38xx...what's the best spot to add some? The Triumph has the trailer hook on the bow...is that suitable for towing, or would I need to add some tow hooks to the Triumph? (I clearly haven't thought this thru yet, so open to any ideas.)

                Cheers,

                Dave

                Comment


                  #9
                  Get a bridle to tow from the rear cleats. I had Top-Knot make me a custom length tow line that floats: http://www.mooringlines.com/tow_lines.htm Works great and stores in the provided bag easily.

                  We towed a 13' whaler last summer no problem behind our 38.
                  Sean
                  1987 3870
                  Crimson Pride II
                  Past Commodore Mukilteo Yacht Club
                  MMSI: 338080226

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi Dave

                    We towed our 11ft whaler and last one was. 23 ft Scout c/c...you need to make a towing bridle for your 38.. Take a heavy line say 5/8 to 3/4 go from port cleat thru hawse pipe over to stb.hawse pipe to cleat and putting a bowline in center.the bowline would reach out to end of swim step,some use a heavy duty ring then run tow line from bridle to dinghy.I towed on Second stern wave so boat was comming down it.hope this makes sense . Good luck Brad
                    Brad & Sharon
                    Lady Jake
                    1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
                    LaConner,Wa. (summer)
                    2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
                    kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There are a good number of past posts on towing from many BOC members that have more details and pics on towing and lines. Perhaps google "towing a dinghy BOC" and read some of them as well.
                      Northport NY

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "brad4550" post=809335 wrote:
                        I towed on Second stern wave so boat was comming down it.hope this makes sense . Good luck Brad
                        Ah...I never thought of that...tow it at a distance such that the towed boat is always sliding down the wake created by the towing vessel...great idea!

                        Dave

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Dave

                          That towing riig from Moorings is awesome looking,that's basically what I did when towing.I got my Dinghys mixed up the 11 foot whaler was on the bridge I towed a 13ft Coho for years and the 23ft for a season,that time I changed the towline to Amsteel.dont tow anymore... do everything from our12ft Achilles.

                          Good luck Brad
                          Brad & Sharon
                          Lady Jake
                          1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
                          LaConner,Wa. (summer)
                          2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
                          kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I was looking for a Triumph 195. Found one in Northern Cal but the logistics didn't work out.

                            They are amazingly damage tolerant. My wife and I were fishing on one down in the Panama Canal for Peacock bass. The guide hit at least 12 submerged tree trunks and just bounced off. Gatun Lake is shallow and full of tree stumps.

                            I found my cat in Portland and have been very happy with it. Unbelievably stable. I nose it into the swim platform and people can step on or off without the boat moving.

                            I rig a loop between the aft inside cleats out though the hawse pipes, then I attach a 100', 7/16" Amsteel Blue and a nylon bridle to the cat. The Amsteel doesn't have any give so I use nylon for both bridals.

                            I wouldn't trust the trailer eye without checking to see what's backing it. I think it's best to have two eyes for towing.

                            Chriis

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "Pacrimrat" post=809388 wrote:
                              I was looking for a Triumph 195. Found one in Northern Cal but the logistics didn't work out.

                              They are amazingly damage tolerant. My wife and I were fishing on one down in the Panama Canal for Peacock bass. The guide hit at least 12 submerged tree trunks and just bounced off. Gatun Lake is shallow and full of tree stumps.
                              Yeah, the Triumph's are ridiculously rugged...the hull is polyethylene, make it thick enough and it's nearly impossible to break it, plus LDPE (low-density polyethylene) is positively bouyant, lighter weight than FRP, steel, or aluminum alloys, naturally slick/slippery, cleans up easily with soap and water, doesn't need to be waxed, with a UV protection additive it doesn't deteriorate in sunlight...plus there's an ample supply of raw materials (used milk jugs anyone? LOL)...not surprising to see boat hulls being made from it. It does have some drawbacks...it flexes more (which is both good and bad), dimensional tolerances aren't as exact as FRP or metal (but then, roto-molding/etc can be automated to remove some human error/consistency), and it doesn't have the clearcoat shine of a new boat (but then, it'll look like it's only a year old for the next 20 years with merely a powerwasher). Barnacles WILL still stick to it, but not as easily as FRP and they'll come off easier. If you do manage to somehow knock a hole in it, it can be repaired with some polyethylene welding rods and a heat gun. Several smart sailboat makers in Europe have started making their sailboat hulls from polyethylene...I would expect that trawler/cruiser/motoryacht makers won't be too far behind (lighter weight = higher cruising speeds with smaller engines and less fuel burn), and maybe the reduced power requirements will lead to more solar/wind/electric/other "green" yachts. With any luck, the automation will drive the price down, which is a good thing for all of us.

                              I really like my Triumph 150CC...to be a pretty well-equipped 15 footer, it only needs about half the outboard of a similar sized FRP boat (the 50hp on it will get it on plane in a few seconds with 2 of us on it, and top out at around 36-37 mph), so there's a fuel and engine cost benefit even with a smaller boat. The early 19 and 21 footers had some quality problems (water getting into hull voids that were foam-filled and permeating the foam), but I believe all those issues were resolved in 2005 and on. When Triumph was a small company in Durham, NC, the boats had a lifetime warranty....that unfortunately ended when they were bought by a larger company.

                              Triumph's commercials are really funny also...here are two:

                              Bubba Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKqjr660neU

                              Divine Intervention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0gM2ZZN8g8

                              I don't mind at all having a plastic boat made from recycled milk jugs if it does what I need and want it to do, and doesn't cost me an arm-and-a-leg doing it. In my opinion, any boat that gets you on the water safely and reliably is a "good boat".

                              Dave

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