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5788- possible purchase- thoughts and advise

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    5788- possible purchase- thoughts and advise

    Hi,

    I was looking at upgrading to a 4788 when I stumbled across a 1999 5788 with the MAN engines. I kind of fell in love with the layout and look of the boat.

    Now this is a lot more boat and a lot more money than I was originally thinking to spend. and I know there are not that many around, but couple of owners on here I believe. interested in any thoughts. specifically the following....

    1) feedback on the MAN engines. I have read so much about the cummins and hinos on here but obviously not a lot abou these big MANs, I called the Seattle specialist who talked me through quite a lot that gave a little confidence. But I also read about a BIG service due at 1000 hours and this boar has 920 hours on it. Any feedback welcome. the boat does smoke, not excessively,but enough to notice at idle and under revs when it was cold from start up.

    2) Any feedback on the boat in general, known issues, thoughts.

    the broker also shared this fuel burn info (I think it might be from this site :-) originally.

    RPM..........MPH..........GPH

    1000.........10.4..........8.2

    1200.........11.9........13.8

    1400.........13.5........22.4

    1600.........15.6........30.4

    1800.........19.6........42.4

    2000.........23.4........52.5

    2200.........25.7........71.3

    WOT.........26.4........73.0

    just inn case anyone is interested.

    it's a lot of boat, would cost me a lot more in moorage, fuel, maintenance, but sometimes the heart of the head thing kicks in and you're like. what the hell....
    Last edited by ksanders; 01-07-2018, 07:39 PM.
    BLOG ABOUT MY BOAT... www.seattleboater.com
    5788 Man 610's- Love Her !
    Sold:Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull

    #2
    "Any feedback on the boat in general, known issues, thoughts."

    - The 5788 is huge compared to the 4788.

    - What's not to like its a great boat

    - Many lifts cannot handle the beam or weight around here

    - Most main engine maintenance costs are 300-400% more than a 4788

    - Pricing things like the double impellers, oil or fuel filter changes or even just shaft zincs give you 4-6X multiples

    - The fuel use chart is 'optimistic' to say the least

    - MANN 1,000 hr checkups can run between 15-20K and really should be performed.

    - Only downsides on the boat from my friends was his ability to carry a decent dinghy

    So the costs to carry the boat over time are very much higher - price a prop or shaft or turbo or engine work for an eye opener.

    You are really not going to be able to pull props and do cutlass etc on this sized machinery - (ie -I could not lift the intercooler alone)

    One really nice boat though.

    Here is a pic of the 5788 sitting next to our 4788 in the background for some perspective on the size difference.


    Northport NY

    Comment


      #3
      Yikes, that drives a stake through the heart over head mentality. those costs are pretty scary for sure. it really is a lot more money than we were intending to spend in the first place so thanks for the input. you might sway me away from it.

      would love to hear any real world running and maintenance costs from anyone that owns one.
      BLOG ABOUT MY BOAT... www.seattleboater.com
      5788 Man 610's- Love Her !
      Sold:Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull

      Comment


        #4
        Hi simbad

        Hopefully Rob on "Merlin V" will post some real world figures for you.One thing for sure it will cost more,but dammmm nice Boat!! Good luck Brad
        Brad & Sharon
        Lady Jake
        1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
        LaConner,Wa. (summer)
        2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
        kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)

        Comment


          #5
          "would love to hear any real world running and maintenance costs from anyone that owns one."

          They are great boats but they are not nearly in the league as the 4788 - much bigger.

          We did a 200 mile 'loop' trip with the 57 in the pic a number if years back along with 20+ other boats..

          90% of the time we were at about 17 knots (20 mph) or about 11 hours of cruising on plane.

          At fill we took about 210 gallons vs his about 550 gals.

          Pricing the parts is not so hard - just look up the costs to replace the impeller 'sets' on the MANNS vs the simple Cummins. (that assumes you can do the labor yourself and have the tools). Do that with simple things like zincs, props, air cleaners, oil changes etc.

          My daughter is driving a 68 Azimut just today with these engines and they just finished up a few of these maintenance items and the costs are pretty well up there.

          If you are really seriously considering this I plead with you to sign up over at Boatdiesel and ask questions about costs for these engines in fuel use and maintenance.

          It will be the cheapest $25 you have ever spent and give you some great feedback from both owners and mechanical experts.

          And...get in that engine room and take a look! it impressed the heck out of me right up until I helped the owner replace those stb impeller set (at like $500 for parts I believe)

          I must say - these are great boats, handle seas much better than the 47, larger, comfortable, finished well, really impressive boats.

          But I remember yo posting about the potential higher costs of a 47 so this would be in another world compared to that.

          Have fun with the search - Hope this helps
          Northport NY

          Comment


            #6
            If you can afford it....do it!

            You only live once and like I say to my wife, memories cost but so worth it.
            2001 3788 w/ 330 Cummins
            Seattle, WA

            Comment


              #7
              I was considering a Bayliner 52/57 last year when we decided to move up in size to livaboard. My friends have a Offshore 64 with the big Mann engines so I have some experience with them. Great engines and very reliable but as stated the maintenance is also very expensive. Regarding the fuel burn, I ended up buying a Carver 57 with the QSM11 Cummins and those suckers can go through the fuel as well, but I tend to cruise at 8-10 knots so it is not an issue.

              I know a few boats with the Manns and I do not remember any of them smoking.
              www.boatyardgm.com
              www.pacificyachtimports.net
              2002 Carver Voyager 57
              "Making Waves"
              3988 250 Hinos
              "The Dark Side"
              Alameda, California

              Comment


                #8
                speaking to the Mann guy in Seattle he said injectors are part of the 100 hour routine and that boats at 900 hours so I am presuming that might explain the smoke a little. but i'm a bit of a novice on diesel engine tech so not sure.

                it's such a hard decision, there is no doubt that the 57 is in a different class, size, quality, cabin space, see worthiness etc. my damn problem is I really wanted a 4788 and had I not stepped on board that 57 i'd have been happy and I've found the one for me. But once I saw It I feel i'll always be thinking about it if I buy the 47.

                there are so many logical reasons not to buy the 57

                I don't really need all that space.

                I think for future resale a 47 will not lose that much money and has a large base of people looking but a 57 is a bit niche, not so many people with that cash to spend and many that are can be a bit snobbish about the bayliner brand. doesn't bother me, but the broker told me a few people wouldn't even come see it because it was a 'bayliner' for that money- crazy but a reality.

                But I love the idea of sitting on the hook on that thing.

                really it just comes down to being prepared to pay for it ongoing.

                I wonder what I should consider as the annual be prepared to pay for maintenance costs on the 57. in my head I was thinking 10k a year might cover it. what's the consensus there? assuming there is nothing major that goes pop.
                BLOG ABOUT MY BOAT... www.seattleboater.com
                5788 Man 610's- Love Her !
                Sold:Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull

                Comment


                  #9
                  When we seriously considered stepping up to a 57 as a dream boat we had a few other reasons why we did not do it in addition to costs.

                  These are things that may not affect others but based upon where we boat and where we go these items were problematic in many cases.

                  YMMV

                  1. 17'+ beam - not many slips at 18' around here

                  2. 20,000+ extra pounds (#53,000 total) limited the travel lifts and wintering sites we could consider

                  3. 5' draft vs less than a 3-1/2' draft did not work in Northport or a few other places we visit each season

                  4. 19' 7" air clearance was too high for our intended uses at the time

                  "I wonder what I should consider as the annual be prepared to pay for maintenance costs on the 57. in my head I was thinking 10k a year might cover it. what's the consensus there?"

                  Call up your marina or MANN and get some pricing on standard task you will want done - or go post at boatdiesel and get some feedback there.

                  Make a list based up on your current boat and see what the comparison would be ....
                  Northport NY

                  Comment


                    #10
                    They are a hell of a boat for sure. A friend has one and it is such a pleasure to be on it. The engine room is jaw dropping.

                    Never had a thought of owning one because I just couldn't afford it.

                    But if I could, it certainly could get in my thoughts quickly.

                    Pay attention to the cautions Smitty is posting. My friend hit his props In our boating area of the North Channel. Not one marina in our area was able to lift him. He had to limp home with it.

                    All that said if you can afford it why not do it?

                    I might add they throw a hell of a wake on plane..

                    Doug
                    Started boating 1955
                    Number of boats owned 32
                    Bayliners
                    2655
                    2755
                    2850
                    3870 presently owned
                    Favorite boat. Toss up. 46' Chris Craft, 3870 Bayliner

                    Comment


                      #11
                      From personal experience. Great Engines! Full service from RDI Marine in Seattle: Engines, Transmissions, Generator with oil sample tests on all fluids with report $3200. Transmissions only need to be done every two years so deduct $300-400 from that if your only servicing mains and generator. Not cheap, but properly maintained and MORE importantly USED regularly you would never see the end of these engines. The maintain schedule shows maintenance schedule to 4000 hours for a reason. Because you asked about maintenance costs and because talking about the life of an engine always starts a cyber war I will keep the information isolated to that. I hope this helps!

                      This information was supplied to me by Man Marine RDI Seattle.

                      Execution of maintenance work on the basis of operating hours clocked up

                      General notes on the execution of service work


                      All service work to be routinely performed for up to 4,000 operating hours is listed on the following pages.

                      If the number of operating hours allocated to the respective service has not been clocked up within one year, service work is to be carried out at yearly intervals.

                      Each and every service job (routinely performed on the basis of operating hours clocked up or at yearly intervals) is entered in the chapter "Service record" of this booklet.

                      At each service the MAN-authorised workshop will confirm with stamp and signature that the work as per maintenance plan has been carried out correctly.

                      It must be ensured that all entries are complete, correct and legible.

                      After each service the maximum engine speed (max. boat speed) which can be achieved under load is to be ascertained in a trial run. This engine speed ought not to be below the rated speed (see model plate). This test is to be regarded as proof of maximum engine output.








                      Attached files

                      Erik, Julie, Josh, Molly, Blake and Luke
                      M/V "Miracle"
                      2002 5288
                      Port Orchard Yacht Club

                      Previous Vessels:
                      1977 36' Blue Sea Tri Cabin Trawler
                      1992 19' Bluewater Riviera

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Something to consider: Have you ever seen a luggage rack or a trailer hitch on a hearse?

                        Craig

                        4788

                        Comment


                          #13
                          One other option is the 5288. Great boat but with less LOA and less beam so it can be hauled out at yards with smaller lifts. My yard can haul one but not the 5788.

                          Just a thought
                          www.boatyardgm.com
                          www.pacificyachtimports.net
                          2002 Carver Voyager 57
                          "Making Waves"
                          3988 250 Hinos
                          "The Dark Side"
                          Alameda, California

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thank you to everyone for your input, after a lot of thought and visiting the 57 twice I have decided to go back to purchasing a 4788.

                            Why?

                            I spoke to a good friend who runs a 61 ft boat and after a long chat I just decided it was probably more boat than we really needed. I loved it, and maybe in a couple of year we'll change our mind and look again. but My wife and I agreed that as the majority of our boating would be just the two of us we really didn't need all the space and extra systems it provides.

                            I already miss just the idea of owning it. but feel a little relieved at the extra cost of owning it :-)

                            thank you to everyone for your input.

                            I offered tonight on a 4788 and accepted so pending a survey we will have a new 4788 very soon.

                            I would appreciate any recommendations for a good cummins surveyor. I need to find one that can survey next week ideally.

                            Again thanks for all the input.
                            BLOG ABOUT MY BOAT... www.seattleboater.com
                            5788 Man 610's- Love Her !
                            Sold:Bayliner 3587 | Extended Hull

                            Comment


                              #15
                              After owning a 4588 and moving to a 5788, I'd really REALLY consider a 5788 or 5288 before a 4788 Iif a larger boat is possible. I have nothing against a 4788, as they are incredible boats, but if you believe you would enjoy the comforts the 5x88 has, it is a definite good investment and something that might lend further consideration.

                              Yes, the cost of operation can be higher than a 4788, but depending on the speeds, your fuel costs can be somewhat reasonable. I often cruise 16-17kts and seem to burn about 32 gph, but if I drop to about 11 knots , i can pull in about twice the mileage.

                              As for the maintenance, yes the costs are higher, but 6 times higher, I'm not sure I would agree with that. Depending on the part it can actually be equivalent to the 4788, as some parts are available via aftermarket sources and do not require the insane over prices that man places on some of thier part. An example is the impellers. They can be purchased from man for about $300, which is insane, but e same impeller can be had for about $40 elsewhere. Gaskets and such can be fond or made at similar or better comparisons. I'm not sure there is a difference is labor costs , hence if your handy you can probably save in that way. There are many systems, but nothing that I have found to be to difficult to maintain, upgrade or repair, especially with the help of the great guys and gals on this forum.

                              All in all, it is a personal preference. But if it is something that is a passion, as most of us have, it can be one of those dreams that you might be able to live and never wonder about.

                              I hope this helps ,

                              BJ

                              OMEGA

                              5788
                              BJ
                              OMEGA
                              5788

                              Comment

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