Bigger Boat- your thoughts 4788 in mind-gctid804594

[simbad]

well I hope this is not awkward as a couple of the boats I am going to tee up are members from here.

As some of you know I have had a 3587 for a few years now and it might be time to think about a bigger boat. and naturally the 4788 comes up as bang for buck.

I am interested in any input on the following....

1) is there any real alternative to this boat for someone looking for bigger, good use of space, pilot house.i don't see it but interested in any suggestions

2) My 3587 has been pretty bulletproof, could not imagine a boat that had lower cost to run and own- should I expect a lot higher ownership cost with the 4788

3) I have my eye on a couple of boats be interested in input on my thinking....

Finn Seeker- for sale in Kirkland for 200k it's a 1998

it had no canvas up top, I think this is nice for the winter months but I wonder if I need it when it has a pilot house. it has no diesel heat- I think that's a big deal for convenience- does electric heat and having to run genset to power it become a pain, would anyone run their genset all night if on the hook? and finally no thrusters. my boat doesn't either but I think it would be a realnice to have and high cost after purchase

Our Song- for sale in BC 1997 for $220k

So older, more money but has thrusters both ends, diesel heat and canvas back and up top. is this worth the extra dolars- I also get the feeling it's a really well looked after boat.

and then the anomaly- I found a 490 meridian 2007 in Portland

from pics it's basically the same boat with nicer wooden treatments inside and of course a lot newer. it has the QSB motors. not sure what the difference is there but the ad calls it out as being a big advantage only 500 hours.

but it's $350k so does the price hike justify the difference, over the years I likely lose more on the 2007 than on the older boats? be interested in rationale for going for the newer boat other than maybe it's just a lot newer.

so lots of questions but be open to anyone's thoughts in general as I think about this move.

and of course if anyone is interested in an extended hull 3587 with extra fuel tanks and genset In the extension- let me know :-)

[Machog]

In the interests of full disclosure I have a 4087! We were in a position to move up a couple of years ago and looked at 4788's and a few Meridian 49's. In the end we stuck with the 4087. We didn't like the 'grandkids' room next to our state room. When we have guests its typically just another couple or family with grand kids. Walk arounds are about the same as the 4087, no wider. Also the guest state room was dark and appeared small compared with the V birth in ours. I go solo for 2-3 weeks out of our 3-4 month cruising season and handling the 87 solo is easy. Can't comment on an 88, but assume its not as easy solo.

What be did like on 88/49s was the great salon, the space in the engine room, size of the galley, great pilot house etc-there's a lot to like. But, its a lot of money not only to buy but to run. More fuel, more expensive maintenance costs, higher moorage fees at my dock and when cruising. Less choice when out cruising, further north you go less choice of 50'+ docks.

We also looked at Ocean A's, California's and several other brands. None had the space or value of Bayliner, 87 88.

In the end we put a bit of cash into the 4087, new carpet, new flybridge and salon cushions etc etc. Wasted the money we saved on fuel and cocktails;-)

There are several 88's at Banabelt boats in Anacortes and a couple of 3587's just listed.

Good luck with your search.

Machog

[point2]

Hi.

I thought I would give you my opinion as an owner of a 4788. I see you are in Seattle which is as you know the sister city to Vancouver as part of Cascadia.

I think it is the best boat value for the money because it was designed in the Pacific North West and we all know the weather here.

The staterooms are a little small, but as you pointed out the salon is fantastic. You have to go a lot bigger to get that salon space.

A lot of the boats have the 6BTA Cummins which is a very solid engine. The QSB is really the electronic version of that. Yes, there is more to it, but keeping it simple.

The 490 is newer, but basically the same. Newer, is better, but it's all about budget.

Anyway, that's my thoughts. I have been happy with it.

Regards, and good luck.

Stephan

[brad4550]

One thing while looking at boats in Canada don't forget the exchange rate right now one dollar US equals C$1.34.

If you really want to know all the ins and outs of the 45 or 47 you should call Dan Byrd at Fairhaven yacht sales in LaConner his phone number is 509-929-3535.you'll not find a better yacht broker then Dan.

Good luck in your new adventures Brad

[Guest]

I walked through Finn Seeker with a friend who is looking for a 4788. Beautiful boat and well cared for. Newer electronics. All it needs is diesel heat. Rendova dinghy with new 40 hp Yamaha. If I didn't already have one that's the boat I'd buy.

[simbad]

Thanks for the replies. I think I have written off the 490. Love it but I don't see the upside on the extra spend. Ultimately the same boat.

Rob. The seller did mention You had been through the boat. I agree it was in very nice shape but lack of canvas thrusters and diesel heat did put me off.

Would anyone run their gen set all night to keep heat in he colder months. I always hit mine down before going to bed and leave the diesel heat on medium all night. I think electric heat is a bit of a pain. I think I'll also miss my gas cooker on the 3587!

[smitty477]

"But, its a lot of money not only to buy but to run. More fuel, more expensive maintenance costs"

I have not owned a 4087 - what is the fuel burn on the 4087 at various speeds and rpm?

Based upon research and the posts on the BOC the fuel burn of the 4087 will be near the same or higher then the 4788.

If both boats have similar engines and gear why would the maintenance costs be higher? Hull painting maybe?

Sinbad - I do not know if you have sonnet anytime on a 4788 or maybe even better cruised on one but you cannot go wrong with these boats.

They have a great combination of benefits including but not limited to - very easy side and stern access for single handling, cruising with aircon or heat on when conditions warrant, good tankage for fuel water and waste, really quiet while underway, plenty of room for all, ability to get on and off the boat at differing levels (variable dock heights) , ability to carry a jet ski or larger RIB, plenty of covered and sun areas when in port.

Somewhere around my ho9use I have a list of 'other' boats that might fit the list we had but most of them did not come close in amenities or in price - most of them were limited production so the ability to gain info and help with the boats were limited. All of them used more fuel per mile than the 4788 at anything above hull speeds. The list was about 20 long but off hand there was these : 52 Choy lee efficient, 48 Chris craft , Bluewater (not the low freeboard one), Kady Krogen (only made one model that paned at maybe 15 copies), Nordic, Angel, and many others I might be able to look up if its important for you.

Good luck and hope this helps

[Machog]

Smitty477. Haul out, bottom paint, wax & polish, moorage all by the foot was what I had in mind. I've kept track of my fuel burn over past 7-8 seasons and its averaged out at 5.2gph, for nearly 1000 hours. That's running mostly around 1100-1200rpm 8-9knots. Have done some 'fast' runs from Anacortes to my home base on Lake Washington, 2200rpm-2400rpm. Have no idea how this compares to a 4788, maybe similar?

Machog

[ksanders]

We have owned our 4788 since 2011.

In my opinion in the 50' size range the 4788 represents the best value on the market in terms of comfort, style, price, and amenities.

We love the third stateroom. nobody has ever slept there, but it makes a great storage place for bulky items.

When looking at boats as you know, everything is a trade off.

In my opinion thrusters are not something I would put a premium on.

Yes, I know allot of people like their thrusters, I get that. My thought is that the need for thrusters diminishes as you gain experience docking the boat.

When you first buy the boat you will have a learning curve getting it into a slip in challenging conditions. As you gain helm time you learn how to handle the boat and docking gets easier.

Now for us docking is easy peasy.

Diesel heat is something you will use quite a bit. Maybe not in the middle of summer, but I guarantee that in the PACNW diesel heat will be something you treasure.

If the boat you are considering does not have diesel heat figure on 14-16K to get it installed.

People tend to underestimate the cost of an electronics suite for the 4788. The helm area on a 4788 is as you know huge. A really nice electronics suite will cost from $10K and up from there. The sky is the limit. A 4788 with OEM electronics is in need of an upgrade by now. Boats with upgraded, but several years old electronics are not bad though. Unlike your iphone boat electronics have a long lifecycle.

Canvass is expensive. It is also something that does not last forever. I would expect that any 4788 out there would be on its second set of canvass by now. When evaluating boats I'd be sure to value the canvass accurately in its lifecycle since it is not a forever thing.

Do you need it...no. With an open flying bridge you can enjoy the sunshine better without canvass. Remember the pilothouse is where you drive the 4788 from.

In the rain the flying bridge becomes unusable without canvass though. Something to think about. Canvass makes the flying bridge into a huge dry space.

If i were out 4788 shopping today I'd focus on examples that have the accessories I cherish the most, and the boat that is overall best maintained.

Good hunting...The market for this model is tight.

[smitty477]

"Smitty477. Haul out, bottom paint, wax & polish, moorage all by the foot was what I had in mind. I've kept track of my fuel burn over past 7-8 seasons and its averaged out at 5.2gph, for nearly 1000 hours. That's running mostly around 1100-1200rpm 8-9knots. Have done some 'fast' runs from Anacortes to my home base on Lake Washington, 2200rpm-2400rpm. Have no idea how this compares to a 4788, maybe similar?"

Hello Machog

"Haul out, bottom paint, wax & polish"

Haul out costs us about $125 more for the 45's and 47 then out past 38 Bayliner.

Haul out and winter storage costs us about $250 more for our 45/47 than our 38.

Bottom paint is about one gallon more per two coats of ablative - lasts about 3 seasons for us in the NE.

Wax and polish we cannot say as we do that and never tracked the materials costs.

Moorage is the same for us except when visiting ports where the difference is 9 feet times their per foot costs.

We have always used the same 900# mooring over the past 30 years and maybe 8 boats.

Estimated and 'rounded' (to make it easy to remember) fuel burns for the 47 over 10 + seasons (1,000 hrs and 6,000+ nmiles) are like these....

4 nmpg - 6 knots (actually 3.5-4) - 2 gph

2 nmpg - 8 knots - 4 gph

1 nmpg - 10 knots - 10 gph

0.95 nmpg - 15-16 knots - 17 gph

GPH with no speeds - I do not normally track as that includes idling, leaving harbor, maneuvering low cruise and fast cruise and all speeds in between and has no real tracking value for us. I could look it up but we travel more than 80% of the distances above 15 knots as a general rule.

I believe there were a number of BOC members who have posted on the nmpg and gallons per hour per speed with 4087's.

[brad4550]

No one has answered you question on running a Generaton all night,. My short answer NO !!....

1) if something goes wrong with it you may not get to in time,this could include Machine / Co problems.

2) if anchored in a nice quite bay...would you like to hear someone's Generator running all night... I think not.

Just my 2 cents worth ,don't shot the messenger. Good luck Brad

[simbad]

Brad, I though the same, that's why I think I have to have diesel heat- its a life saver on my current boat.

I am pretty sure the 4788 is the boat for me. I really want to get up to see that want in Victoria i mentioned above. and then lets see.

[NeilW]

I would go for one with diesel heat AND at least a bow thruster. Some say you don't need them and they are right, but a thruster get you out of some tight places and make handling the boat with just two people easy.

I can drive and dock a boat as good if not better than most, but I sure love my bow and stern thruster along with the Yacht Controller my boat came with

[weiss]

Our Song- for sale in BC 1997 for $220k

So older, more money but has thrusters both ends, diesel heat and canvas back and up top. is this worth the extra dolars- I also get the feeling it's a really well looked after boat.

Just FYI, , Our Song is now sold.....by me

Cheers, Gary

[stargazerwa]

My two cents on equipping a 4788 for the Salish Sea.

Diesel heat makes it a year around boat, we have been boating all this winter in temperatures down to the 30's. Note that a diesel furnace will provide more heat than electric running off of a single 30 amp service.

A Bimini is nice, but IMOP a flybridge enclosure is not needed. We have chartered a lot of boats and have only found two uses for FB enclosures. 1) for running in cool/wet weather and 2) to provide an additional area for kids and young adults to sleep. The pilot house is where we run the boat most of the time unless we want to be out in the sun. Lots of places to lets the younger crowd crash for the night in a sleeping bag, Salon, FB, Settee.

Bow thruster, nice to have but not necessary. We have one and use it about 10% of the time when docking. My experience on several boats is the electric bow thrusters are helpful but aren't really enough in a big blow.

Stern thruster, the rudders on our 4788 are so effective at idle that I don't see the need.

Docking the 4788 isn't hard, but it is different then the 4087 which I have docked ~40 times. The FB helm isn't centered like the 4087, it's offset to the Port which isn't as convenient for a Starboard tie which is easier for power, guest and launching the dinghy. The 4788 doesn't pivot as fast using the engines, sometimes additional throttle is needed but it doesn't seem to get blown around when docking as much as the 4087.

They are great boats for the price with comfortable accommodations for the skipper, guest are guest!