Synthetic Oil Isse-gctid382481

[mmichellich]

My question kinda got buried in another post, so I will try again. If you switch to synthetic oil, like AMSOIL for example, can you extend the time between oil changes. For example, I have changed my oil yearly in the fall. Can I for example go to changing oil only once every two years? In an auto it would appear you can double the mileage between oil changes with synthetic oils versus non synthetic oils.

[Guest]

There's a broad range of opinions on that topic. I consider http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ to be the definitive source.

My opinion is that you can extend change intervals. If you look at Amsoil's recommendations, they say to extend intervals except where the manufacturer expressly says No. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf

It's important to note that you can also extend intervals with Dino oil, by using oil analysis. My Cummins 8.3L turbos are headed into their 3rd season on the same oil. New filters after year 2. And the Cummins rep is A-OK with this, as long as the you've got legitimate analyses. Good for the environment and fine for the engines.

[boatworkfl]

I always change my oil in my gas engines at winter layup, and every 150 to 200 hours. Basicly 2 times in the 3 months I use it. Oil is cheap compared to all other maint.

[dmcb]

I have posted this before but the people here in Michigan that deliver propane bought a new truck several years ago.

The driver said they didn't intend to change the oil, just the filter and test the oil at change intervals.

He said Cummins agreed with this and it wouldn't void the warranty.

Now think on this. That truck is used about as hard as any can be. Very cold weather country, short trips to the next customer, long idle while filling the tank.

A few years later I remembered and ask if they changed the oil yet. They had just changed it just short of 100,000 miles.

They used synthetic but I don't remember what kind. Rotella comes to mine but I am not sure.

Doug

[Guest]

I think you can - but why would you want to? In a post earlier today someone said it would be about 15k for a Reman B series. Before install, which is ++++. I don't get all analytical on this issue, i just buy the best oil I can, usually synthetic and change it every year. Simple insurance for a guy who would rather invest in maintenance then in repair. Most of us can easily get away with one change per year. Most boats don't see 50 hours per year let alone 200, which is a reasonable interval.

[Guest]

I have many questions on what others have done and observed regarding engine oil:

1. Changing from dino to synthetic - what are the results - good and bad?

2. Does Amsoil really make that much difference? If so why? Reportedly it is not API approved, because some additive concentrations are double the max allowed.

3. Do additives work for others - I saw good results from Lucas Heavy Duty used with quality dino oil.

4. Assuming additives work, should synthetic be used with synthetic oil - Lucas impies the synthetic additive is for gas engines only, but this is sketchy.

5. Which should be changed more often, assuming not at the same time - oil or filter - the Hino EH700 filter is huge - when I have changed it looks like new, almost no loading, but the oil has appeared ready for a change.

6. How often are others cleaning the centrifugal filters - at each oil change? Some engines I have seen appear to have never had this unit cleaned - caked-up solid to the scrapers. Cleaning mine after one-year, there are only a mils of material - easily cleaned-off with diesel fuel and a rag.

7. Agree with others that synthetic in itself does not allow less frequent oil changes, as contaminants build-up just as fast - however - if the engine runs cleaner because of the synthetic oil, and the oil itself does not break down, then by all means, as long as the oil is clean, keep running it.

8. Why was 30W recommended in the original Bayliner engine manuals, when Hino shop manuals report multi-weight is fine. Seem most have no trouble at all with modern multi-weights.

Thanks for your patience and any responses, Regards, Doug S.

[boatworkfl]

Synthetic oil is dino oil, it has just been modified so that all te molecules are about the same size.

My new ford F150 5.0 it is recomended to change the oil and filter every 10,000 miles unless you are towing or off road, reg oil, blend, or full syn. and a small filter, much smaller than the PH8 fram.

Engine engineering has come a long way, not so much with diesels, they are dirty, most new tractor trucks do not change the oil, it continously burns some oil with the fuel and adds new oil as they drive.

[dmcb]

30 weight oil was the oil of choice in almost all diesels in that time period. Oils have changed and no one suggests 30 weight as the preferred oil now that I am aware of.

If Hino wrote the book today I doubt they would say 30W oil.

And your statement about oil change doesn't agree with Cummins who say a test is as good as a change if the oil checks out.

Why not change yearly just because?

Well for me if the oil is good why change yearly? Its a messy job. Its costly, and if there is no gain per the experts there are good reasons not to do it.

The added benefits of a test is you catch problems before they become severe. Fuel in the oil, antifreeze or water in the oil, metal that is not normal for some examples.

Certainly it does no harm but does it do any good? That has room for discussion.

Doug

[Guest]

I think we all like to think we are wisely pampering our toys lavishing them frequent oil changes when I don't think since I've been member of this forum I've heard of one engine failure due to oil breakdown. Corrosion, cooling issues, valve failure, freeze problems, electrical problems, but really not any oil related failures. I have been using block heaters for the last three years. My current boat has had them for most if not all of it's 36 years. One of my engines is as original and starts instantly one was rebuilt 12 years ago due to a blower falling off while coming back from Guatemala. These engines are running original heat exchangers , manifolds and starters. The lack of corrosion on these engines is amazing, the lack of corrosion in my engine room is amazing. I think keeping your engine warm and dry is much more important than frequent oil changes. My road trucks had recommended oil changes when used as delivery trucks at 33,000 mile, 1,000,000 mile highway long haul. I noticed that my dealer maintained BMW's often went 15,000 miles before they changes oil. Both currently have over 160k actually one is at 180k and the engines run great. If you can keep the engine warm and dry why would you need to change oil every year? Synthetic oil is better and if I had gas engines in my boat I would be running it in them. I do in my cars and pickup and have for over 15 years. My engines in the boat hold close to 10 gallons each and with another 10 in generators that's thirty gallons of oil. They've been doing fine on Delo for 36 years why spend the extra for synthetic, I'd rather spend the money on electricity keeping my engine room dry and engines corrosion free.

[Guest]

J McCallum wrote:
I think you can - but why would you want to?

My rant here isn't addressed at you J McCallum, and I'm not suggesting your opinion is less valid. I have gradually changed my POV over the years from being a past-proponent of frequent changes like you, to one who now changes oil when it's needed.

Short answer to your question:

Because it costs money, consumes your time, is a messy job, impacts the environment, and most importantly - has no adverse effect on engines.

Long answer (rant)

I currently have 20 internal combustion engines on the go at home and in my boats right now. I've learned the hard way to get serious about planning and executing oil changes.

I have come to believe that overly-frequent oil changes are a placebo, sold to us by various service providers, especially the dealerships and rapid lube car shops. The https://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...3000 mile myth translates into boating as the 50h or 100h myths.

Since my first internal combustion engine (motorcycle) at age 9, 42 years ago, I have had hundreds and hundreds of assorted IC-powered tools and toys. Only 3 have suffered failures you might say were due to lubrication issues. All 3 were pre-mix 2-stroke racing engines in the 70s, run at full throttle all the time, and seized when a too-lean mixture starved them of their fule/oil mixture. It was my fault as the tuner, not the oil's fault. None of the 20 engines in use now have suffered a failure due to oil-related issues, nor have any in recent memory.

While all this is just my personal opinion, it does have some basis. It was developed over my years as a mechanical engineer and an health physicist, racing bikes and cars on-road, off-road and on ice, running tractors and dump trucks, rebuilding various toys with wheels, messing around in boats, and personally maintaining that fleet of highly-varied stuff that burns petrol, all lubricated with oil. Current published research says it's OK to extend change frequency, and many major fleet operators now change oil only when analysis says the need is drawing near.

[mmichellich]

What is the easy way to test the oil? Can you do it yourself? My one concern about extending the interval on changing synthetic oil, is that if you should get an injector acting up, it may not smoke at least when running at displacement speed, but could lead to diesel in the oil which will thin it out and reduce lubrication eventually. There is always the old farmer method of finding diesel in the oil that Earl told me about tho-i.e. a drop of oil in a cup of water. If oil drop dissipates rapidly there is likely diesel in the oil.

With the price of synthetic oil running $25-30 per gallon a 2 to 3 time increase over non synthetic oil, costs for a diesel engine oil change is not for the faint of heart and doing a change when not needed can be significant.

[dmcb]

You cannot test it yourself. You send it to a lab.

Here is one, there are many. Cost for this on is $25. Some are cheaper.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

You establish a base and changes will be noted so you could catch a problem before it becomes major.

Doug

[Guest]

+1 Doug,

I've been running oil analysis with Blackstone for a while now and the analysis says I'm doing just fine. I'm now thinking of going longer intervals between oil changes. My concern is that I only run 30-35 hours a year much of it at or little more than hull speed with bursts of running on top. Is there a real issue with acids accumulating in the pan to cause damage?

Richard

[dmcb]

As part of the analysis they will tell you that and the condition of the oil.

[Guest]

Thanks Doug.

Richard