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Problems lifting 4588-gctid379207

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  • cosmo777
    replied
    Pat,

    Any update on how this all worked out for ya?

    Leave a comment:


  • Papa_Charlie
    replied
    toukow wrote:
    Pat- Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully it will be fine as Pilothouseking states, given these boats are built like Cholox bottles though I hadn't noticed the chlorine smell.Can you educate me on the situation a bit? I totally understand the advantage of using a spreader bar having worked many years ago in the shipyards around superstructures, etc. being lifted, but I'm confused as to the impact of the tide in this discussion. The level of the water is somehow impacting the distance between the straps athwarships? Or there is some other factor I'm not grasping? Obviously the lift would be further, but the load would not change-correct? Again, I wish you the best in resolving the matter to your satisfaction, Dean
    The effect of the boat at a lower position to the slings support at the top of the lift puts the straps against the upper portion of the boat. The closer the boat is to the width of the lift the worse this will become. You can see in the rough drawing how the straps would be against the boat at the deck area. When the lift is done from a higher point the width of the lift acts like a spreader bar pulling the straps away from the deck area as in the drawing. Depending on how beamy the boat is compared to the lifts width the effects can be very dramatic.Yes this was at the 12th street basin, not the old lift.

    http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....JPG[/img]

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  • cosmo777
    replied
    At low tide, even 12th St Yacht Basin is questionable.

    I've seen them pull out some big boys, 60-70 footers, but don't think it was low tide

    Port of Everett is pretty much exclusively using the 12st St travel lift.

    They've recently expanded their yard to something like 80 spots.

    Leave a comment:


  • completelymobile
    replied
    Papa Charlie wrote:
    We were preparing to have our 4588 lifted at our marina to have shaft work done. I had arranged to lift at 9:30 am. According to the marina that would pose no problem despite a low tide. The type of lift is a sling type.
    Were you at the 12th Street yacht basin lift or the old lift by the old marine store? I'm guessing it was the old lift and if so I would not use that lift for the reason you described. I had them lift our 4788 when it was trucked to Everett a few years ago and they did the same thing but I had them stop when I noticed the issue and had them put a spreader on and that worked but it still made me nervous. I have had ours pulled out 4 times at the 12th Street Yacht basin lift just around the corner from the old lift and it works flawlessly. Much nicer facility as well as lots of room to maneuver.

    Hope that helps!

    Leave a comment:


  • boatworkfl
    replied
    toukow wrote:
    Pat- Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully it will be fine as Pilothouseking states, given these boats are built like Cholox bottles though I hadn't noticed the chlorine smell.

    Can you educate me on the situation a bit? I totally understand the advantage of using a spreader bar having worked many years ago in the shipyards around superstructures, etc. being lifted, but I'm confused as to the impact of the tide in this discussion. The level of the water is somehow impacting the distance between the straps athwarships? Or there is some other factor I'm not grasping? Obviously the lift would be further, but the load would not change-correct? Again, I wish you the best in resolving the matter to your satisfaction, Dean
    If you make a drawing of the bow of the boat while in the water, then raise up and place the lift, then draw a line representing the slings, the further down the boat you will see that the slings are in a wedge shape, the effect is more pressure on the hull cap joint the further down the boat is, just stretch the distance and see.

    That is where a narrow lift needs spreader bars on some boats, our wider boats wait for the tide to be high to be lifted, it also takes less time if lifting at high tide in Alaska, we pay by the hour in Seward.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Papa Charlie wrote:
    You are correct in that there should not have been a problem. As mentioned there was a low tide. Here that adds at least 9 feet in depth. Second the Port of Everett has a very high lift even at high tide meaning that the design of the lift ways also have an effect on the entire load system.
    Pat- Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully it will be fine as Pilothouseking states, given these boats are built like Cholox bottles though I hadn't noticed the chlorine smell.

    Can you educate me on the situation a bit? I totally understand the advantage of using a spreader bar having worked many years ago in the shipyards around superstructures, etc. being lifted, but I'm confused as to the impact of the tide in this discussion. The level of the water is somehow impacting the distance between the straps athwarships? Or there is some other factor I'm not grasping? Obviously the lift would be further, but the load would not change-correct? Again, I wish you the best in resolving the matter to your satisfaction, Dean

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    replied
    Don't let it freak you out too much, I've seen 45s flex pretty good at forward starboard lift point - IF a board wasn't put under the rubrail to distribute the weight. Pop in and then popped out exactly like a Chlorox bottle. I've also had other owners tell me same. Unfortunately this is one of the reasons you hear Bayliners slandered about on the East Coast, as it's a pretty dramatic thing to see, and Yard managers will be yelling how that doesn't happen to any other boats, etc. Yards near Bayliner dealers learned and had their "Bayliner boards" handy.

    Like I said, it flexed (I mean all the way down to both the head windows) then popped back out with no risidual damages. Surveyor was there (hence why it was being hauled) and ascertained no damage, and that boat went through 2 more surveys as it changed hands over the years, with nothing amiss.

    Seems to be "nature of the beast". No worries.

    I was at Broward decades ago, and watched them pick up a Huckins with slings. The slings went up-boat didn't move. The slings cut through her like a hot knife in cheese. THAT was a worry. Lol.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Like every one else. we wish you the best outcome. Slightly, off topic, when my boat was lifted for the secong time since I owned, the yard poited out that the rear sling markings were 3 to 4 feet to far back, and the sling was right over the shafts. I have since had them repositioned, however that mat have explained a broken engine mount.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Papa_Charlie
    replied
    NeilW wrote:
    I have a 17' beam on my travel lift and have lifted many a 45 and 47 with single straps and never a problem. We do have spreader bars to 4 strap when neccessary, usually a heavy boat 40 tons +. Seems that blocks at the chimes would have helped since it seems the lift you were at was beam challenged.

    have it surveyed
    You are correct in that there should not have been a problem. As mentioned there was a low tide. Here that adds at least 9 feet in depth. Second the Port of Everett has a very high lift even at high tide meaning that the design of the lift ways also have an effect on the entire load system. There were many errors made by people that should have known better. As stated earlier, we put a great deal of trust in these people. By virtue of there position, regardless of how lowly this may be, we assume that they know what they are doing. I worked for Diablo Marine Service in Martinez, California. I have seen people that know what they are doing. They understood the differences between different vessels and the conditions. If they didn't they error-ed to the side of caution and went out of their way to ensure there was no chance of damage. Sadly, I assumed I would be dealing with the same type of people. Looking back, I can remember them asking me what I thought. OMG if I was an expert I would be running a boat yard and not working for Boeing.

    I have notified my insurance carrier and a claim has been opened. Should NHD find that no damage requiring repairs occured then, I can only say thank God. If they do then we will have to deal with that. We are live a boards and having extensive work done is not a good thing as we will be displaced. Regardless of what takes place I intend to let the POE know what happened and that they should train their people better. We will see what comes of that.

    Thank you all for the advice. It is funny. As a live a board a part of me is hoping that there is no damage and we will not loose our home for a period of time for repairs. Although I know I must address this issue. I am oddly drawn to a kind of state of denile. Strange as in business I am considered a pretty ruthless type and very demanding. Maybe I am just getting old. Then again maybe not,

    Leave a comment:


  • NeilW
    replied
    I have a 17' beam on my travel lift and have lifted many a 45 and 47 with single straps and never a problem. We do have spreader bars to 4 strap when neccessary, usually a heavy boat 40 tons +. Seems that blocks at the chimes would have helped since it seems the lift you were at was beam challenged.

    have it surveyed

    Leave a comment:


  • boatworkfl
    replied
    This is a more common problem than some think, a narrow lift and a low tide does not work as you have experienced.

    I Seward, ak we retired our old 50 ton lift and built a new dock and a new travel lift to help solve this issue. As mentioned a spreader bar would have solved the issue.

    We had one 48' Tolly that experienced the same issues, he used to place foam blocke on the sides of the hull to spread the load, the hull capand hull joint is not designed for a lot of side stress; call your insurance co and hire a marine surveyor to asses the damage, the owner of the lift facility should be liable, even though they usually have you sign a waver.

    Leave a comment:


  • capnken
    replied
    Pat-

    you were given good advice. I would add to it: consider a second assessment from Pacific Marine, just across the street from the Anacortes Marina. They have alot of Bayliner factory people there, and I personally have had problems with work done at North Harbor Diesel.... just a thought.

    good luck.

    Ken

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Papa Charlie wrote:
    Thank you for your suggestions. I have notified my carrier and a claim has been opened just in case NHD should find that the boat sustained damage that must be addressed.
    I would ask the marina pay for the survey as well... they made a grave mistake no matter what the end result will be, and you definitely should be entitled to a survey. Good luck!

    Leave a comment:


  • Papa_Charlie
    replied
    Thank you for your suggestions. I have notified my carrier and a claim has been opened just in case NHD should find that the boat sustained damage that must be addressed.

    Leave a comment:


  • smitty477
    replied
    "The biggest problem is that we rely on these people to protect our boats and to be the experts. Sadly, this is not always the case."

    I could not agree with you more - thank goodness for the BOC where you can source feedback with mnay folks so quickly and minimize the problems that have occurred.

    "They indicated they have had trouble with 45's before. What they should have done is lifted her using two straps at the front and rear. When they do this the straps are attached to a small spreader that separates them about 18"-24" thereby spreading the load along the hull"

    IMO - This sentence leads me to believe that they are bordering on incompetent.

    Wiskeywizard and Woodsong have left very good advice on claiming this ASAP.

    Hope this helps

    Leave a comment:

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