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    Problems lifting 4588-gctid379207

    We were preparing to have our 4588 lifted at our marina to have shaft work done. I had arranged to lift at 9:30 am. According to the marina that would pose no problem despite a low tide. The type of lift is a sling type.

    We pulled into the lift area all seemed to be fine. They positioned the straps and began the lift. As they did you could see the sides of the hull beginning to compress. I asked if this was normal and they indicated a little flex was normal. They continued the lift then all of a sudden BANG! You could see a small hair line crack on the outer deck just below the cap rail. Holy S***! I had them put the boat down immediately, despite their suggestion to just continue the lift.

    Upon closer inspection, once the pressure from the sling was removed the crack all but disappeared.The rub rail was a little displaced but you would not know it had you not seen what just took place. Inspection of the interior bulkheads showed no damage either.

    After sharing this story with people in the know, or at least who know more than the idiots that tried to lift us, this is what was done wrong and what should have been done.

    1) Lifting at low tide. This was part of the problem, their lift already sits very high off the water even at high tide. At low tide the slings are almost vertical. That put extreme crushing force right on the rub rail the most protruding part of the hull. They should have used either a spreader or waited for high tide. At high tide the slings would have been more of a V configuration and there would have been much less force at the rub rail.

    2) They attempted to lift her with a single strap in the front and rear. They indicated they have had trouble with 45's before. What they should have done is lifted her using two straps at the front and rear. When they do this the straps are attached to a small spreader that separates them about 18"-24" thereby spreading the load along the hull.

    3) When they positioned the straps they didn't use blocks below the chine area on the hull. The blocks takes some of the pressure off the side of the hull especially off the rub rail area. It also has a tendency to spread the loads out even more.

    We are leaving tomorrow for Anacortes to have North Harbor Diesel pull her and do the shaft work we were expecting to have done at the Port of Everett. NHD has a unique lift that is basically an over sized, self propelled, hydraulically driven trailer that slides under the boat and lifts it out of the water via hydraulics then they just drive it out. Really cool to watch.

    While we are out, I intend to have them do a closer inspection to see if there was any serious damage that will need to be addressed. God I hope not as this is our home and that would surely take some time to be done.

    So I share this with you so that when you have you boat lifted, ensure that they use proper care in doing so. All boats have characteristics that require special attention to being lifted. Make sure that the people doing the lift know, if not ask. We rely upon these people to know what they are doing. Sadly and too often they don't.
    Patrick and Patti
    4588 Pilothouse 1991
    12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
    M/V "Paloma"
    MMSI # 338142921

    #2
    FWIW - we have been lifted many times over the past 20 years with both a 45 and 47 and the key is the width of the travellift.

    Since it freezes here we lift at least 2 times each year and every now and again more often.

    Most times we have a single strap for and aft but the width of the travelift exceeds the beam (15') by a good deal (never measured it).

    I know when they use cranes and other less wide travelifts they need to use 'spreader bars' to keep the weight away from pincthing in the hulls.

    One spreader bar will actually run through the pilothouse doors keeping the front strap loaded vertically without any inside presssure.

    Some of our lifts in Northport are from a negative 12' if that is any indication.

    Hope this helps
    Northport NY

    Comment


      #3
      Smitty,

      The just of your post is that they need to address the pinching that occurs when it is lifted. Knowledgeable people do this. Some unfortunately are not. The biggest problem is that we rely on these people to protect our boats and to be the experts. Sadly, this is not always the case.
      Patrick and Patti
      4588 Pilothouse 1991
      12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
      M/V "Paloma"
      MMSI # 338142921

      Comment


        #4
        I've had trouble like that in the past using a crane and spreader bars that weren't sufficiently wide.

        You do have damage. Serious or not is yet to be determined. I think you'll find it's serious, at least in terms of the amount of work needed to fix it. Time to call your insurance company and have a serious talk with the owner of Port of Everett's Travel Lift.

        Comment


          #5
          Absolutely call your insurance company ASAP and have it surveyed. I personally would do that before departing the marina unless you are only going a very short distance so that they can't say damage occurred during your travels.
          ~~1987 Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse & 17' Boston Whaler Dauntless~~

          Comment


            #6
            "The biggest problem is that we rely on these people to protect our boats and to be the experts. Sadly, this is not always the case."

            I could not agree with you more - thank goodness for the BOC where you can source feedback with mnay folks so quickly and minimize the problems that have occurred.

            "They indicated they have had trouble with 45's before. What they should have done is lifted her using two straps at the front and rear. When they do this the straps are attached to a small spreader that separates them about 18"-24" thereby spreading the load along the hull"

            IMO - This sentence leads me to believe that they are bordering on incompetent.

            Wiskeywizard and Woodsong have left very good advice on claiming this ASAP.

            Hope this helps
            Northport NY

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you for your suggestions. I have notified my carrier and a claim has been opened just in case NHD should find that the boat sustained damage that must be addressed.
              Patrick and Patti
              4588 Pilothouse 1991
              12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
              M/V "Paloma"
              MMSI # 338142921

              Comment


                #8
                Papa Charlie wrote:
                Thank you for your suggestions. I have notified my carrier and a claim has been opened just in case NHD should find that the boat sustained damage that must be addressed.
                I would ask the marina pay for the survey as well... they made a grave mistake no matter what the end result will be, and you definitely should be entitled to a survey. Good luck!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Pat-

                  you were given good advice. I would add to it: consider a second assessment from Pacific Marine, just across the street from the Anacortes Marina. They have alot of Bayliner factory people there, and I personally have had problems with work done at North Harbor Diesel.... just a thought.

                  good luck.

                  Ken

                  Comment


                    #10
                    This is a more common problem than some think, a narrow lift and a low tide does not work as you have experienced.

                    I Seward, ak we retired our old 50 ton lift and built a new dock and a new travel lift to help solve this issue. As mentioned a spreader bar would have solved the issue.

                    We had one 48' Tolly that experienced the same issues, he used to place foam blocke on the sides of the hull to spread the load, the hull capand hull joint is not designed for a lot of side stress; call your insurance co and hire a marine surveyor to asses the damage, the owner of the lift facility should be liable, even though they usually have you sign a waver.
                    Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                    Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                    Twin 350 GM power
                    Located in Seward, AK
                    Retired marine surveyor

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I have a 17' beam on my travel lift and have lifted many a 45 and 47 with single straps and never a problem. We do have spreader bars to 4 strap when neccessary, usually a heavy boat 40 tons +. Seems that blocks at the chimes would have helped since it seems the lift you were at was beam challenged.

                      have it surveyed
                      www.boatyardgm.com
                      www.pacificyachtimports.net
                      2002 Carver Voyager 57
                      "Making Waves"
                      3988 250 Hinos
                      "The Dark Side"
                      Alameda, California

                      Comment


                        #12
                        NeilW wrote:
                        I have a 17' beam on my travel lift and have lifted many a 45 and 47 with single straps and never a problem. We do have spreader bars to 4 strap when neccessary, usually a heavy boat 40 tons +. Seems that blocks at the chimes would have helped since it seems the lift you were at was beam challenged.

                        have it surveyed
                        You are correct in that there should not have been a problem. As mentioned there was a low tide. Here that adds at least 9 feet in depth. Second the Port of Everett has a very high lift even at high tide meaning that the design of the lift ways also have an effect on the entire load system. There were many errors made by people that should have known better. As stated earlier, we put a great deal of trust in these people. By virtue of there position, regardless of how lowly this may be, we assume that they know what they are doing. I worked for Diablo Marine Service in Martinez, California. I have seen people that know what they are doing. They understood the differences between different vessels and the conditions. If they didn't they error-ed to the side of caution and went out of their way to ensure there was no chance of damage. Sadly, I assumed I would be dealing with the same type of people. Looking back, I can remember them asking me what I thought. OMG if I was an expert I would be running a boat yard and not working for Boeing.

                        I have notified my insurance carrier and a claim has been opened. Should NHD find that no damage requiring repairs occured then, I can only say thank God. If they do then we will have to deal with that. We are live a boards and having extensive work done is not a good thing as we will be displaced. Regardless of what takes place I intend to let the POE know what happened and that they should train their people better. We will see what comes of that.

                        Thank you all for the advice. It is funny. As a live a board a part of me is hoping that there is no damage and we will not loose our home for a period of time for repairs. Although I know I must address this issue. I am oddly drawn to a kind of state of denile. Strange as in business I am considered a pretty ruthless type and very demanding. Maybe I am just getting old. Then again maybe not,
                        Patrick and Patti
                        4588 Pilothouse 1991
                        12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
                        M/V "Paloma"
                        MMSI # 338142921

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Like every one else. we wish you the best outcome. Slightly, off topic, when my boat was lifted for the secong time since I owned, the yard poited out that the rear sling markings were 3 to 4 feet to far back, and the sling was right over the shafts. I have since had them repositioned, however that mat have explained a broken engine mount.

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Don't let it freak you out too much, I've seen 45s flex pretty good at forward starboard lift point - IF a board wasn't put under the rubrail to distribute the weight. Pop in and then popped out exactly like a Chlorox bottle. I've also had other owners tell me same. Unfortunately this is one of the reasons you hear Bayliners slandered about on the East Coast, as it's a pretty dramatic thing to see, and Yard managers will be yelling how that doesn't happen to any other boats, etc. Yards near Bayliner dealers learned and had their "Bayliner boards" handy.

                            Like I said, it flexed (I mean all the way down to both the head windows) then popped back out with no risidual damages. Surveyor was there (hence why it was being hauled) and ascertained no damage, and that boat went through 2 more surveys as it changed hands over the years, with nothing amiss.

                            Seems to be "nature of the beast". No worries.

                            I was at Broward decades ago, and watched them pick up a Huckins with slings. The slings went up-boat didn't move. The slings cut through her like a hot knife in cheese. THAT was a worry. Lol.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Papa Charlie wrote:
                              You are correct in that there should not have been a problem. As mentioned there was a low tide. Here that adds at least 9 feet in depth. Second the Port of Everett has a very high lift even at high tide meaning that the design of the lift ways also have an effect on the entire load system.
                              Pat- Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully it will be fine as Pilothouseking states, given these boats are built like Cholox bottles though I hadn't noticed the chlorine smell.

                              Can you educate me on the situation a bit? I totally understand the advantage of using a spreader bar having worked many years ago in the shipyards around superstructures, etc. being lifted, but I'm confused as to the impact of the tide in this discussion. The level of the water is somehow impacting the distance between the straps athwarships? Or there is some other factor I'm not grasping? Obviously the lift would be further, but the load would not change-correct? Again, I wish you the best in resolving the matter to your satisfaction, Dean

                              Comment

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