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    Looking to upgrade to a 35-41(39) need advice-gctid378644

    Hi everyone. I am looking to upgrade into my "final boat". My wife and I love being on the river and are ready to start researching a vessel that can be our lake home / cabin. We are both only 40 now but love the idea of a larger vessel that can also be our cabin away from home.

    I have been looking at the carver, Meriden, and Silverton Anywhere from 35' to 41' I like the new look of the models 2000 and newer but want to stay in the price range of 75-100k

    Besides cosmetics what should a guy look at or consider?? Auto generator? Heat/ac? Thrusters? Electronics? Etc

    Any opinions or thoughts are appreciated

    #2
    look up "Yacht World" on line, there is a huge selection of 35 to 41' yachts of different configurations, most have a lot of photo's, this should give you and idea as to how they are laid out, find a layout you like, then look at what size and make, and asking prices, it is still a buyers market out there.

    If you find a boat you like, find a marine surveyor that is willing to do a per hour or set low price walk through to see if it is worth paying for a full survey.

    Do not use a brokers surveyor.
    Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

    Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
    Twin 350 GM power
    Located in Seward, AK
    Retired marine surveyor

    Comment


      #3
      The things I love most about my 4588:

      1) Generator - big enough to run everything at the same time at a very low fuel rate. Stove for dinner and a movie, hot water by the gallons in the morning.

      2) Autopilot. Point and it goes, I don't need to drive all the time; I just need to watch for bozo's Makes that 45 minute run much nicer. I get better fuel costs when it drives.

      3) Shower / head. Adult sized and works really well.

      4) Places to go on the boat to get away from the other person for an hour. Chair to the bow, pilot house seat, flybridge, salon, rear cockpit, master stateroom, office to the side. It's nice to have some alone time even with other people on the boat.

      5) Anchor Windlass. It's a 90LB anchor stuck in the mud and I don't care.

      Lots of boats out there, don't just hop on and hop off. Take your time and imagine how this will work in the long run.
      Yep, my 4588 Bayliner IS my happy place :whistle:

      Comment


        #4
        Foster wrote:
        The things I love most about my 4588:

        1) Generator - big enough to run everything at the same time at a very low fuel rate. Stove for dinner and a movie, hot water by the gallons in the morning.

        2) Autopilot. Point and it goes, I don't need to drive all the time; I just need to watch for bozo's Makes that 45 minute run much nicer. I get better fuel costs when it drives.

        3) Shower / head. Adult sized and works really well.

        4) Places to go on the boat to get away from the other person for an hour. Chair to the bow, pilot house seat, flybridge, salon, rear cockpit, master stateroom, office to the side. It's nice to have some alone time even with other people on the boat.

        5) Anchor Windlass. It's a 90LB anchor stuck in the mud and I don't care.

        Lots of boats out there, don't just hop on and hop off. Take your time and imagine how this will work in the long run.
        Never thought about the auto pilot feature. That sounds very nice. Great feedback. Thanks

        Comment


          #5
          Are you planning on mostly doing short cruises around the river, or do you have any long distance cruising aspirations (even for the somewhat distant future, since you referred to this as your "final boat")? If you are planning on doing any long distance blue water (or coastal, depending on the location) cruising, I would seriously stay away from Carver, Meridian, and Silverton. It's not that they are incapapable, they are simply not designed for it.

          Comment


            #6
            Astral Blue wrote:
            Are you planning on mostly doing short cruises around the river, or do you have any long distance cruising aspirations (even for the somewhat distant future, since you referred to this as your "final boat")? If you are planning on doing any long distance blue water (or coastal, depending on the location) cruising, I would seriously stay away from Carver, Meridian, and Silverton. It's not that they are incapapable, they are simply not designed for it.
            Living in MN limits our thoughts of ever getting to the coast. However I am curious what makes those makes not as suitable for the coast as others?

            What is a good one to look at?

            Comment


              #7
              Impulse wrote:
              Living in MN limits our thoughts of ever getting to the coast. However I am curious what makes those makes not as suitable for the coast as others?

              What is a good one to look at?
              In that size range, most Meridians, Carvers, and Silvertons have semi-displacement hulls. These fall in the motoryacht class. While these hulls can offer higher cruising speeds, it comes at a cost. Semi-displacement hulls will provide an uncomfortable ride in conditions where swells are large and at close intervals. They typically do not handle well in beam seas. And lastly, they are not as efficient -- and hence tend to use more fuel. Please understand these are very general statements; and every hull design in this class is going to have unique attributes -- rendering some of them more suitable for rough seas than others.

              Displacement hulls on the other hand, have their own disadvantages. Mainly, they are slow. Especially in the range you are referring to, expect speeds of 6-7 knots. In a displacement hull, the greatest efficiency tends to exist at 90% of hull speed. For example, a displcement hull with a waterline length of 35 feet has a hull speed of 8 knots. So it would be safe to say a cruising speed of 7 knots would be common. Fuel consumption on displacement hulled boat is great. A 2 gallon or less per hour fuel burn rate. This will also give you extended cruising range; and the tankage is typically generous on these boats.

              If you are looking at boats in that class, the low priced (not low quality) end consists of trawlers made by CHB, Europa, Roughwater, and Hershine. Avoid Grand Mariner. On the high end (but outside of the price range you specified), consider Hatteras, Nordhaven, Nordic Tug, and Grand Banks.

              There is no sacrifice to creature comforts on these boats, even at the lower priced range. The only sacrifice is speed; and if that is something you are willing to live with, the advantages are numerous (in my opinion).

              For a good discussion on how a motoryacht (Bayliner 4788) performs in rough water, http://"http://www.baylinerownersclu... /> click here.

              I'm sure others will chime in as well.

              Comment


                #8
                Think first, he is on the Mississippi river, not the ocean.
                Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                Twin 350 GM power
                Located in Seward, AK
                Retired marine surveyor

                Comment


                  #9
                  boatworkfl wrote:
                  Think first, he is on the Mississippi river, not the ocean.
                  Pat, this is a big decision he is making. If I were in his shoes, I would want as many well informed options before me as possible. People's goals change as time passes. If he was planning on staying on the river long term, a motoryacht is fine.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The Admiral and I recently went through many of the questions that you two are. We decided to live a board a boat for some time. It took us 1.5 years to settle on the right one. Along with budget, there are many other things to consider and if I may let me offer this advice.

                    1) Forget about models and manufacturers. First you need to decide what features the boat has to offer. Such as if it is an aft cabin the good things are it will give you a really nice master stateroom but at the cost of a more difficult boarding and disembarking. This for us was exaggerated by the fact that we have a Golden Retriever. Getting her off and on the boat when at anchor or a strange dock without stairs would be a difficult situation and that is at least twice a day. That is why we ended up on the 4588. You have easy access to the boat from any dock or the dink from the stern. The dog can join us anywhere on the boat.

                    Layout is very important and if often overlooked. How you intend to use the space will help you determine what you want. Is there room for lounging. Most rigid settees are not very comfortable. I nice easy chair or probably two would be much more comfortable. Can you comfortably watch TV. Is there a place to eat or must you convert something first. Converting can be a pain the in the back side. Do you have a place to relax outside. How about being able to screen that area in if your evenings draw out the bugs. Good ventilation for the living area. All things to consider.

                    2) Make a list of the features that you want the boat to have. Forget about cost, just make a list. Do you want to have two heads? Both with showers? How about laundry? Does your Admiral like to cook? Mine does and trying to find a galley with any kind of counter space is difficult. Also, a lot of boats have offset sinks which causes the dish washer to have to twist. Not comfortable.

                    3) Heating and AC. If you plan to use the boat during the early spring and late fall you may need a heater. The size boat you are looking at will be diesel so diesel heat is the way to go. We like the hydronic as the hoses carrying the hot fluid warm and dry the closets on the way to the registers throughout the boat. AC, it is my understanding that you get some serious summers where you are at. I would think that AC would be more critical. These options are expensive to install or have installed. So finding a boat with them already there is important.

                    4) Operationally, if it will only the two of you, you may want to have thrusters to make it more comfortable for two to operate. Docking a big boat can be interesting. The larger the boat and more over, the taller the boat the more sail area and the more difficult that can be. Thrusters are not critical, that depends on your experience. Another thing to consider with aft cabins, you are higher from the dock. For us having wide, safe access to handle lines was important as my Admiral is my deck hand.

                    You indicate this will be your lake/river home. Take the time to seriously think about all the things you would like to have. Imagine using these things. Check out a lot of boats and imagine using them. It is really hard to do at first. If you are like us, looking at boats can be intoxicating. You tend to look at them through rose colored glasses. Instead you need to try and see yourself living there. What would be difficult. If you were to live on it, I know that is not the intention, but think from that point to see if you like the livability. I believe you will be much happier with what ever you finally choose. There are a lot of really good deals out there you don't have to be in a hurry. Part of the fun of owning a boat is looking at all the different ones.

                    One last thing. Try to imagine the problems of living on the boat you are looking at. I know it is a downer, but you will own this boat long after the newness wears off. Try to imagine what does not work. Make notes during your search of the things you find you don't like and the things that you do. Check out every possible boat on Yachtworld as mentioned earlier.

                    I am sorry if my post sounds like a lecture and I am sure that you have already thought about all of these items. But just in case you haven't.

                    Good luck in your search, enjoy yourself and don't settle.
                    Patrick and Patti
                    4588 Pilothouse 1991
                    12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
                    M/V "Paloma"
                    MMSI # 338142921

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Papa Charlie wrote:
                      The Admiral and I recently went through many of the questions that you two are. We decided to live a board a boat for some time. It took us 1.5 years to settle on the right one. Along with budget, there are many other things to consider and if I may let me offer this advice.

                      1) Forget about models and manufacturers. First you need to decide what features the boat has to offer. Such as if it is an aft cabin the good things are it will give you a really nice master stateroom but at the cost of a more difficult boarding and disembarking. This for us was exaggerated by the fact that we have a Golden Retriever. Getting her off and on the boat when at anchor or a strange dock without stairs would be a difficult situation and that is at least twice a day. That is why we ended up on the 4588. You have easy access to the boat from any dock or the dink from the stern. The dog can join us anywhere on the boat.

                      Layout is very important and if often overlooked. How you intend to use the space will help you determine what you want. Is there room for lounging. Most rigid settees are not very comfortable. I nice easy chair or probably two would be much more comfortable. Can you comfortably watch TV. Is there a place to eat or must you convert something first. Converting can be a pain the in the back side. Do you have a place to relax outside. How about being able to screen that area in if your evenings draw out the bugs. Good ventilation for the living area. All things to consider.

                      2) Make a list of the features that you want the boat to have. Forget about cost, just make a list. Do you want to have two heads? Both with showers? How about laundry? Does your Admiral like to cook? Mine does and trying to find a galley with any kind of counter space is difficult. Also, a lot of boats have offset sinks which causes the dish washer to have to twist. Not comfortable.

                      3) Heating and AC. If you plan to use the boat during the early spring and late fall you may need a heater. The size boat you are looking at will be diesel so diesel heat is the way to go. We like the hydronic as the hoses carrying the hot fluid warm and dry the closets on the way to the registers throughout the boat. AC, it is my understanding that you get some serious summers where you are at. I would think that AC would be more critical. These options are expensive to install or have installed. So finding a boat with them already there is important.

                      4) Operationally, if it will only the two of you, you may want to have thrusters to make it more comfortable for two to operate. Docking a big boat can be interesting. The larger the boat and more over, the taller the boat the more sail area and the more difficult that can be. Thrusters are not critical, that depends on your experience. Another thing to consider with aft cabins, you are higher from the dock. For us having wide, safe access to handle lines was important as my Admiral is my deck hand.

                      You indicate this will be your lake/river home. Take the time to seriously think about all the things you would like to have. Imagine using these things. Check out a lot of boats and imagine using them. It is really hard to do at first. If you are like us, looking at boats can be intoxicating. You tend to look at them through rose colored glasses. Instead you need to try and see yourself living there. What would be difficult. If you were to live on it, I know that is not the intention, but think from that point to see if you like the livability. I believe you will be much happier with what ever you finally choose. There are a lot of really good deals out there you don't have to be in a hurry. Part of the fun of owning a boat is looking at all the different ones.

                      One last thing. Try to imagine the problems of living on the boat you are looking at. I know it is a downer, but you will own this boat long after the newness wears off. Try to imagine what does not work. Make notes during your search of the things you find you don't like and the things that you do. Check out every possible boat on Yachtworld as mentioned earlier.

                      I am sorry if my post sounds like a lecture and I am sure that you have already thought about all of these items. But just in case you haven't.

                      Good luck in your search, enjoy yourself and don't settle.
                      I thank you for taking the time to write everything you did. I do appreciate it and am open to learning from everyone that has already walked these paths.

                      It appears that I only know of carver, Silverton and merridan - if there are other makes that are similar in style that would be great.

                      We like the idea of having two state rooms Like the Silverton 35 motor yacht We also like the home feeling of the carver super sport. We love fresh air and very much enjoy sitting out bug free on a nice evening.

                      Do most boats this size have thrusters and auto pilot?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Astral Blue wrote:
                        Pat, this is a big decision he is making. If I were in his shoes, I would want as many well informed options before me as possible. People's goals change as time passes. If he was planning on staying on the river long term, a motoryacht is fine.
                        I agree!
                        Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                        Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                        Twin 350 GM power
                        Located in Seward, AK
                        Retired marine surveyor

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Check out the Bayliner 3587.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I hear that the buyer is looking for late model boats within a defined size range- which makes sense, but to properly point them in the right direction, I would like to know; In regular use, how far do they intend to cruise? In their area, are there no wake zones, or do people "let it rip" to get through boring sections. Anchor out alot, or dock at Marina's and Yacht Clubs? What are their storage facilities (inside or out) up there, and when do they zip up for the season? Will it just be a couple using the boat, or will they have guests?

                            And then -how far are they willing to travel to buy a boat, and let them know they need to weigh the expenses of doing so vs buying locally for a bit more money.

                            Doesn't make sense to spend $5,000. in transporting a fuel efficient boat from a distance just to save $2k in lifetime use of fuel. There's so many choices out in the world, but perhaps not in their area. Sometimes you just have to settle for what you can find within a certain geographic area. Sometimes a trailerable cruiser would be better. Sometimes a houseboat would suffice (can't beat the square footage and Harbor Master makes good looking designs). Time is money, so many boaters prefer to pay more for fuel to get someplace quicker due to time constraints.

                            Off the top of my head- Some considerations; Mainship 39's (diesel), Pursuit 34's (diesels OR gas), Tiara 35's (diesels or gas)

                            Dorals 25'-32' (gas), Coastal Barracuda (gas), Harbor Master (gas or diesel), Meridian 41's (gas or diesel) both SCA (aft cabin) and SCB Sedan, Bayliner 4087's, Then there's outboard powered boats- just make sure they're Japanese engines to be happy.

                            all are comfortable boats for a couple depending on their uses.

                            I had a client in Iowa buy a Bayliner 45' from me, found it too slow for his commutes to Great Lakes, had me sell it, then bought a Fountain 47' Triple Gas engine boat on trailer- cruised at 70mph- would hit 85 mph. He bought a dually, kept it in his barn- said he could run on her bottom to Chicago real fast (don't tell me about speed limits-he said there was no enforcement anywhere, and none who could catch him if there was) THEN would truck it down to Florida- launch her- run to Bimini, Nassau, Exumas and BACK- before slower boats had even made it half way there- washed it off- trucked her home to Iowa and put her back in the barn. He covered some serious distance in his vacation time. Did it burn a LOT of gas? Yes, but on the other hand he covered a lot of distance which allowed him to cruise AND then go home to make the money to pay for the fuel he just burned. So for him- it was a good route to go and he experienced MORE Bahamas than 90% of Sailors and Trawler users- who usually don't make it very far due to weather and time. Sometimes REAL fast is REAL good! Formula makes nice performance cruisers too. Diesel boats are more fuel efficient but cost more in initial purchase price and parts, which pay for themselves IF doing long distance cruising. Do you need diesels? One can buy NEW crate gas engines for prices of Diesel parts. I personally like outboard engines. The new 4 stroke Jap outboard engines are very fuel effiicient, and you can tilt them out of the water with push of a button- think shallow water, or just cleaning plastic garbage off them.

                            Trailerable mid-range cruisers have very nice accomodations below, and have the benefit of modern systems (vacu-flush heads, marine AC. flat screen tvs), and Volvos with Duo-props are pretty effiicent- especially the single engine installations. I've personally cruised a Doral 25' SE from Miami to Nassau and back regularly and it handled huge sea's like a duck. Instead of pounding through waves- the smaller boats go over them comfortably (off the wind!!). Great boat for a couple. Haul her out of the water when your done- wash her good, flush her out- put cover on and stick her in the barn out of the weather. Can't beat trailering at 50 mph to cruise different locations, and next day be 300 miles away. Jump from Bahamas, to Keys, to Charleston to New Orleans and have zero expenses on bottom paint, dockage, or any water damage from sitting in the water. That boat lives in Indiana now.

                            Bottom line is you really have to honestly answer (to yourselves) the use of the boat- THEN consider the options available. By all the boat choices you see available, ALL were somebody's solution to their needs.

                            Happy hunting!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Lots of good advise thus far in this thread for you to consider.

                              First off, I would say, if you are only now 40's, don't count on this being your "final" boat. I stopped saying that 2-3 boats ago. :arr

                              Biggest question is indeed, in my opinion, where and how are you going to use the boat. Are there locks on your section of the river? We boat on the Tennessee River and we go through locks all the time. Many people say they never use their lower helm if their boat has one but we use our lower station all the time. Flybridge helm is great on a sunny day but a lower helm is most welcome on adverse weather days and a good lower helm makes it easy for one to single hand through locks without an issue. If you buy a boat with a lower helm with no lower helm door next to it (i.e. pilothouse or many trawlers,etc.) then I would agree- a lower helm is mostly useless and a waste of space though still nice on cold/bad weather days...just not so much help when locking through. For example...you mentioned the 35 Silverton motor yacht. I have several of these and know the boat well- awesome layout for it's size even if I don't personally care for the exterior lines, but without a mid-ships cleat it makes locking through difficult and virtually requires at least 2 people, if not 3, to go through a lock. So- just think through your actual and likely vessel usage and what you will most need to keep things fun and comfortable.

                              You don't need a Nordhavn trawler to cruise the river- as Pilothouse King said, a harbor master houseboat will be just about perfect on the river.

                              Gas vs. diesel....if you aren't going far, gas is all you need. However, the difference in handling in a diesel vs. gas boat is a definite reality and there is also the safety factor of diesel over gas (i.e. diesel won't literally blow up like a gas boat can). I like harbor masters but must confess, they are hands down the worst handling vessel I've ever piloted in my life but even then you can get used to it...just have to use throttles a lot more to make the boat go where you want.

                              Thrusters...fun toy and can be nice to have but most don't use it more than 1st 2 weeks of boat ownership and you honestly don't need it with twin engines. I am biased though, our other boat is a Monk 36 single screw trawler that we restored and it has no thruster and I take that boat through the locks up and down the rivers and in and out of marinas with no thruster at all so driving a twin screw boat is like cheating.

                              Do you have kids? Grandkids? How much time aboard do you spend? Large pets? Those factors all impact the best layout. Aft cabin does have great stateroom size for master berth but boarding is a pain (think split level ranch on the water...stairs every direction you go). A cockpit allows easy access to and from the boat and in and out of the water.

                              So if you are sticking to river cruising...do check out the harbor masters, most notably the harbor master coastal so at least you have a pointy bow. If slow cruising/time is not an issue for you, definitely check out single screw trawlers with naturally aspirated, low hp diesels suck as the monk or defever (stay away from teak decks!!) as you cannot beat the rugged simplicity and fuel economy.

                              either way...my advice would be to buy a vessel with good classic lines and proven market appeal. But most of all...just remember, life is too short to own an ugly boat.
                              ~~1987 Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse & 17' Boston Whaler Dauntless~~

                              Comment

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