Trace Inverter Problems-gctid363819

[Papa_Charlie Guru Find all posts View Profile Close Papa_Charlie]

We took the boat out today and were enjoying the sunshine. When we came back we plugged into the dock and the inverter faulted out. This happened once before when we lost power. Took all the power off the inverter, both AC input and DC input and after a period of time it reset itself and came back on.

Well this time it did not reset itself. I shut everything off to the boat, and to the inverter (AC and DC) let it set for at least 20 minutes and when I put the power back to the unit, the fault light went out, but could not restart the unit. Completely dead. No lights, nothing.

This is a TRACE 2512U with a remote panel. Anyone have any suggestions, on what to do, where and if I can get it serviced, or ?

I have disconnected all AC connections and wired the AC input to the AC output. That is getting us AC power for now. But that also means that the batteries are not being charged. I have shut off the power to everything except the heads, shower sump and the internet (which will be off when I am done). But the batteries won't last for every without a charge.

Anyone have any suggestions. Not looking forward to replacing this unit. That is an expense I had not planned on at this time. Does anyone know where to have them serviced?

Your help will be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thank you.

[SomeSailor Guru Find all posts View Profile Close SomeSailor]

Here's the manual Pat;



http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Discontinued-Products/875-1.pdf

And for the control panel:

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Dis...oducts/845.pdf

The Error Light is for Over-current, Over-temp, Low Batt voltage or High Batt Voltage.

It mentions that only 30A can be passed THROUGH the inverter while it's heavy charging. Maybe it's erroring out for over-current?

It looks like you can turn down the charge amps from the front of the inverter as well?

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Papa Charlie wrote:
This is a TRACE 2512U with a remote panel. Anyone have any suggestions, on what to do, where and if I can get it serviced, or ?

There is not a lot of on-line information for this model.

This is the only document I found: http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Dis...e Installation.

Are there any other on-line links for documentation on this model?

Are there any error codes being displayed?

What is the typical AC load in amperes? Is the typical load resistive, inductive or capacitive?

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wingless wrote:
Are there any other on-line links for documentation on this model?

See the post right before yours...

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SomeSailor wrote:
See the post right before yours...

Thanks! Good work! I'm waiting for the answers to my questions.

[SomeSailor Guru Find all posts View Profile Close SomeSailor]

There is an Error light on the RC Panel - Dubiously labelled "Error", but I don't think Pat was getting any lights on the inverter itself.

He'll have to confirm that.

He has both resistive and inductive loads on it. (Lighting, fridge and a heater)

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SomeSailor wrote:
He has both resistive and inductive loads on it. (Lighting, fridge and a heater)

No capacitive stuff, televisions, computer and electronics?

What is / are the typical load(s)?

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Super Genius wrote:
No capacitive stuff, televisions, computer and electronics?

What is / are the typical load(s)?

Really???

There are only two types of loads in the AC electronics world... resistive and inductive...

Inductive loads use magnetic fields (coils). Motors, solenoids, and relays. If it moves, it's probably an inductive load. If it glows or produces light or heat... it's a resistive load (hopefully)

As I said... he has a mix of both on that circuit.

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SomeSailor wrote:
Really???

There are only two types of loads in the AC electronics world... resistive and inductive...

Inductive loads use magnetic fields (coils). Motors, solenoids, and relays. If it moves, it's probably an inductive load. If it glows or produces light or heat... it's a resistive load (hopefully)

Sorry, but there are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...and capacitive. Electronics like a computer or a TV are capacitive (and resistive).

[Papa_Charlie Guru Find all posts View Profile Close Papa_Charlie]

SomeSailor wrote:
Here's the manual Pat;

http://"http://www.xantrex.com/docum...ucts/875-1.pdf

And for the control panel:

http://"http://www.xantrex.com/docum...oducts/845.pdf

The Error Light is for Over-current, Over-temp, Low Batt voltage or High Batt Voltage.

It mentions that only 30A can be passed THROUGH the inverter while it's heavy charging. Maybe it's erroring out for over-current?

It looks like you can turn down the charge amps from the front of the inverter as well?

Mike,

Thanks, I have bypassed the AC circuits for the time. I plan to reconnect them tomorrow when I get home from work to see if the system has reset itself. If it does then I will run through the settings called out in the manual and ensure that all is as it should be. Over time it is possible that the circuits have worn a bit and I need to adjust them. I will also take a look at the charge rate. Although I was reading int he manual that the system will look for a constant AC voltage to support charging for 15 seconds prior to beginning the charging process.

I think you may be right about the system sensing a problem from two separate AC sources at once. If the system come back on I will make a point of changing our steps to ensure that the inverter is off prior to connecting AC power to the unit.

If the system does not reset itself then I will be looking at a replacement unit. It would have to be both an inverter and charger. Nice thing is that all the other components are already installed. Hopefully, the DC wiring can reach the connections on the new inverter. I am beginning to shop for an inverter now just in case.

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I've always had excellent tech support from Xantrex. I'd call them tomorrow.

[ksanders Site Team Member Find all posts View Profile Close ksanders]

wingless wrote:
Sorry, but there are http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...and capacitive. Electronics like a computer or a TV are capacitive (and resistive).

Actually in the real world Mike is correct. There is no such thing as a leading power factor, or at least I've never measured one. Last time I actually measured a leading power factor was on a test bench in college.

Everything that has wire represents an inductive load. Every little bend, every little twist in the wire causes inductance. Even what we think of as resistive loads are slightly inductive in nature.

[Papa_Charlie Guru Find all posts View Profile Close Papa_Charlie]

Tomorrow I plan to reconnect the inverter to see if it has reset itself or not. In the mean time I am looking at the worse case, which is to replace the unit. Bad timing with a haul out and other projects on the horizon. I am looking at Magnum and trying to understand the real need for a Pure Sign Wave vs a Modified Sign Wave. I know that the pure is great for very sensitive electronics, but I have been running all our stuff off the original inverter on the boat for some time with no ill effects. I doubt that it is a pure sign wave as this is the original unit that came with the boat in 1991.

My inverter is tasked with running our frig, microwave/convection oven, various outlets, incandescent lights, fluorescent lights, TV's, DVD players and powering the computers to name a few. One concern I have is the surge capacity of the pure sign wave. It only has a surge of 3900w while the modified has a 5000w surge capacity. The original Trace 2512-U is rated at almost 8000w surge.

So I know that many of you are purists but what is really required here? The question is do I really need a Pure Sign Wave Inverter or will a Modified Sign Wave perform just as well? The chargers and controls are almost the same. Full 5 stage chargers. Both units use the same remote which is $185. But there is a significant difference in the price of $710 plus tax between the two units.

Magnum MS2812-U Pure Sign Wave Inverter/Charger

12V DC Input Voltage, 2800W Continuous Cap., 3900W Surge Cap., 125A Charger Output, MS2812-U $1,989.00

Magnum ME2812-U Modified Sign Wave Inverter/Charger

12V DC Input Voltage, 2500W Continuous Cap. 5000W Surge Cap., 120A Charger Output, ME2512-U $1,279.00

As always, I value and appreciate your input. Thanks in advance.

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Papa Charlie wrote:
Tomorrow I plan to reconnect the inverter to see if it has reset itself or not. In the mean time I am looking at the worse case, which is to replace the unit. Bad timing with a haul out and other projects on the horizon. I am looking at Magnum and trying to understand the real need for a Pure Sign Wave vs a Modified Sign Wave. I know that the pure is great for very sensitive electronics, but I have been running all our stuff off the original inverter on the boat for some time with no ill effects. I doubt that it is a pure sign wave as this is the original unit that came with the boat in 1991.

My inverter is tasked with running our frig, microwave/convection oven, various outlets, incandescent lights, fluorescent lights, TV's, DVD players and powering the computers to name a few. One concern I have is the surge capacity of the pure sign wave. It only has a surge of 3900w while the modified has a 5000w surge capacity. The original Trace 2512-U is rated at almost 8000w surge.

So I know that many of you are purists but what is really required here? The question is do I really need a Pure Sign Wave Inverter or will a Modified Sign Wave perform just as well? The chargers and controls are almost the same. Full 5 stage chargers. Both units use the same remote which is $185. But there is a significant difference in the price of $710 plus tax between the two units.

Magnum MS2812-U Pure Sign Wave Inverter/Charger

12V DC Input Voltage, 2800W Continuous Cap., 3900W Surge Cap., 125A Charger Output, MS2812-U $1,989.00

Magnum ME2812-U Modified Sign Wave Inverter/Charger

12V DC Input Voltage, 2500W Continuous Cap. 5000W Surge Cap., 120A Charger Output, ME2512-U $1,279.00

As always, I value and appreciate your input. Thanks in advance.

I've been happy with a pure sine wave, but to be honest I've run these long enough that I don't remember the last modified sine wave unit I had.

Everybody swears by the magnum units. That said I have run the Xantrex inverter/chargers for many years on allot of different boats and never had one fail.

You can get the prosine 2.0 inverter/charger for $1325 on Amazon

I gave around that for the 3KW freedom SW last fall.

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ksanders wrote:
Actually in the real world Mike is correct. There is no such thing as a leading power factor, or at least I've never measured one. Last time I actually measured a leading power factor was on a test bench in college.

Everything that has wire represents an inductive load. Every little bend, every little twist in the wire causes inductance. Even what we think of as resistive loads are slightly inductive in nature.

How about a standard AC/DC power supply, not a power-factor-corrected power supply, loaded with capacitors? Does the capacitance of those honking-big capacitors overcome the little twists of wire?

How about the banks of capacitors that factories add to correct the power factor for decreasing their utility bill? Are those capacitors also inductive, or is this also no such thing?