Some 4588 questions-gctid342216

[Woodsong]

Friends,

We are in the process of closing on a 1997 4588 this coming week. We have always been drawn to pilothouse style boats and we have always liked the 45/47's and have looked at numerous ones over the years but could never find the right one at the right price it seemed. In the interim we have owned several other boats that we have enjoyed, with our current boat being a 1983 Monk 36 trawler that we just did a complete restoration on over the last year and a half. That is a great, great boat that I truly love but alas, she is too small for our family of 4 and the dog given the amount of time we spend on the water. So- it seems we have finally found our 4588 and all that should be left now is paperwork and wire transfers. A couple of misc. questions though for you all if I may.

1) Dockside water connections: These are at both port and starboard just aft of the pilothouse doors obviously. My dumb question is this....if the cap comes off them can any water enter there or does it require pressure from a direct hose connection to infiltrate the water system if you will? Reason I ask this as while scrubbing down the boat today the drains right there aft of the pilothouse doors got clogged, water backed up, the cap was off the dockside water connection and it subsequently was "under water" in the midst of some pretty nasty stuff. On previous boats the dockside water connection did nothing until pressurized with a hose and essentially it bypassed the tanks and 12v water pump and went straight to the fixtures as demand was created. I am not familiar enough yet with the 4588 plumbing system to know how it is all plumbed on this boat. I could crawl around and see what goes where but figured someone here may know?

2) I was looking behind the aft most stateroom hanging locker false back wall today. This is where the 2nd bilge pump is located and sea strainer/pump for raw water washdown and pump for freshwater washdown. Please see the attachd picture. Obviously the sea strainer and the plastic pump downstream of it is for the raw water washdown and someone dutifully winterized/abandoned it (even though boat is not and doesn't need to be winterized). The black rusty thing I assume is an older style/rusted up 12V pump for the freshwater washdown, yes? If it is the freshwater washdown pump I am not sure why the water service lines associated with it are so scummy looking- water out of the galley/head sinks is odor free and seems clean.

3) Water tanks. I've located the forward most tank under the forward stateroom berth. It is my understanding that there is another one somewhere below the sole of the master stateroom, yes? Are these 2 tanks typically joined together via a manifold such that if one is utilizing the water system, say at the galley or whatever, and higher tank goes dry then the lower tank will continue feeding it or do the different tanks feed different fixtures? When we went to fill the tanks today the forward most deck fill fitting took almost no water (I think that feeds the lower/aft most tank??) and the aft most deck fitting took a good bit of time to fill (which feeds the forward most/upper tank I think??). I guess all that is to say, can someone shed some light on how the 2 tanks on the 4588 are connected/function so I can make sure I keep water in the tank I need to so we don't run out when I am taking a shower. For that matter, does anyone know what the water capacity was/is for both of these tanks separately? I believe total capacity is 200 gallons.

4) Dinghy davit motor: It seems to only want to lower and not raise the cable on the spool. Before I go installing a new one, any typical tricks/issues?

I am sure I will have other trivial and not so trivial questions as we move forward.

Thanks in advance for any insight. Just for fun, picture of my Monk 36 (which is for sale btw!!) and of the 4588 attached.

Attached files [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/644785=23500-DSCF0400.jpg[/img] [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/644785=23499-DSCF9403.jpg[/img]

[Pacrimrat]

Are you sure its a 1997?

[Pacrimrat]

My 47 has one connection on the transom. I believe (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) the standard unit has a regulator in it that cuts the pressure down to about 45 psi. I don't think it will take on water without pressure. And mine doesn't fill the tanks.

I haven't seen a 45 with fillers on both sides. Maybe the PO installed a second one.

The larger tank I. is forward under the bed and the smaller one is under the master stateroom floor center line. It runs up under the bed a little. You can see the sending unit and connections if you lift the small access panel up that's located in the bottom of the starboard storage under the bed.

If you pull or lift the mattress out of the way you will see the forward tank access further forward.

There are separate lines running from the tanks leading to the pump that have shutoff valves. You normally would use one tank at a time. Valves should be under the steps by the galley.

[Papa_Charlie]

1) Our 45 has dual dock side water connections also. In order for water to get into them it would take some pressure there is a check valve inside that must be overcome for water to flow in. This prevents water from the pressure pump from pumping the water out of the connection. Some of these are equipped with pressure reducing valves and some are not. As a safety if you are going to connect to dock water I would add a pressure reducing valve at the faucet to reduce the pressure going to the boat and in the hose.

I do not use dock side water as I don't want the water to sit in my tanks for very long and potentially go bad.

2) No way of knowing without looking at it. This sounds as though it was installed by a previous owner. I only have the stripping pump and the automatic bilge pump in the compartment that pulls the water out of the Mid ship bilge.

3) There are two water tanks as you indicated. The upper tank under the bed was originally 130 gallons and the lower smaller tank under the state room floor is a 67 gallon tank. Although I have heard that there were other combinations. But I believe that all would total about 200 gallons. If you lift the first step going from the hall way to the salon and pull it out towards you, there will be a set of valves in there. Each valve controls which tank will feed the system. I am told that you should not have both open at the same time.

My boat has been modified when bow thruster was installed. The two tanks are connected in series with the 130 gallon tank feeding into the smaller tank and the smaller tank feed the system. That way you are pulling, theoretically from both tanks at the same time. So far this seems to work but the plumbing as been modified to allow this.

4) Check the connections to ensure there isn't any corrosion that may be causing the problem. After that you are probably looking at having to replace it.

Good luck with the boat. We love ours and live on board full time. We took delivery in late October of 2011. So I am still learning they systems but issues are educating me quickly.

[Woodsong]

thanks all and sorry- it is definitely not a 1997- she is a 1987- darn typos on my laptop.

Thanks for the help!

[mmichellich]

Papa Charlie wrote:
1) Our 45 has dual dock side water connections also. In order for water to get into them it would take some pressure there is a check valve inside that must be overcome for water to flow in. This prevents water from the pressure pump from pumping the water out of the connection. Some of these are equipped with pressure reducing valves and some are not. As a safety if you are going to connect to dock water I would add a pressure reducing valve at the faucet to reduce the pressure going to the boat and in the hose.

I do not use dock side water as I don't want the water to sit in my tanks for very long and potentially go bad.

I always thought the stock set up on a 45 or 47 was that the dock side water connection did not fill the tank (s), it only supplies water to the facets. We leave water in our tanks for 7 months in the winter with no issues. On the 47 the tanks are plastic so long term storage is no issue that I know of. I do treat it with a small bit of Clorox in the spring tho just to make sure.

[Foster]

Welcome to the group. There is tons and tons of information you can find about your bayliner, use the search function.

For example this thread http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/fo...er+tank+valves talks about the two tanks, the valve that controls them and how you should manage them. I got to it for you by searching on water tank valves.

Good luck!

Foster

4588 1993

[Guest]

4) Dinghy davit motor: It seems to only want to lower and not raise the cable on the spool. Before I go installing a new one, any typical tricks/issues?

Have had the same problem with ours. Typically it's the removal switch on the end of the motor. Take it off and shoot some wd40 or other lube in and work it around. It should start working in both directions.

[capt._ron]

Welcome to BOC, 2 nice looking boats. Good luck selling the Monk, but if a person were to own 2 boats you've picked 2 nice ones.

[Papa_Charlie]

mmichellich wrote:
I always thought the stock set up on a 45 or 47 was that the dock side water connection did not fill the tank (s), it only supplies water to the facets. We leave water in our tanks for 7 months in the winter with no issues. On the 47 the tanks are plastic so long term storage is no issue that I know of. I do treat it with a small bit of Clorox in the spring tho just to make sure.

You are correct. There is a check valve in the pump that prevents pressure from leaking back into the tank and often a second inline check valve is installed to ensure this. The dock side water does not enter the tank. It bypasses the tanks and pump and is fed directly to the hot water tank(s) and the faucets.

I have know people that have used dock water and let the water stand in the tank too long. The water has gone bad and they were made very ill from it. Yes you can treat the water but you don't always know the condition of the water that you have put into the tank. I just prefer to use this water constantly and not have to worry about it.

Also, with us being live a boards, it is too easy for us to leave that water on when we are constantly coming and going. If that line were to pop, it could flood the boat. I don't want that kind of problem either.

No, with the capacity we have we are good for at least a week and I am fine with filling my tanks. I do treat the water periodically or more over the water so it will treat the equipment walls with bleach. Once a year I will flush a slightly higher dose through just as a purification run. I did this on my RV and have just carried it over to the boat.

[Woodsong]

I found the water tank valve manifold. Both lines are open to both tanks as it sits right now on the boat so I can only assume that means the boat will draw off both tanks? I will have to play with the manifolds and see how it all acts. Water is of uncertain age anyway so I want to pump it out get fresh water in- good time to sort out this stuff. I appreciate the link to the other thread- there I saw the mention of the lower most companionway step that is removable- I had no idea it was removable and a good way to access the midships bilge pump. Is there a trick to accessing or inspecting/viewing the bilge forward of that step? I.e. somewhere down the hall or under forward stateroom?

Also, where, typically speaking, is the midships vanity sink's sump pump? It is my understanding that this sink requires a sump pump to pump overboard but I did not see it unless it is tied into the master head's shower sump pump.

And the batteries- we have 2 8d batteries outboard of the starboard engine. How on earth does one get them in or out of there? I think we may need to replace our batteries but did not see a fun way to get them out of there! Typically speaking, on the 4588, is one dedicated for cranking and one for the house systems and are they usually isolated? If one is usually just for house bank, is it typically the forward one or the aft one? We are back at the house and the boat is 260 miles away right now and I didn't have time to track down where the wiring all went.

[Papa_Charlie]

Woodsong,

From what I have been told about the standard factory plumbing is that you should not have both water tank valves open at the same time. The larger tank will attempt to pressurize the smaller lower tank. Mine has been modified and sealed to ensure that it would be able to handle the pressure that is applied. I can tell you that the tank is not the same shape as it was when new, so there is a substantial amount of pressure being applied.

I would recommend that you flush your system out using a strong mixture of bleach and water. I mix a cup of bleach in a 5 gallon bucket then poor it in the large tank and fill. Use a half cup in the small tank. Run the systems, hot and cold until the smell of bleach comes out strong. Let sit for at least 3 hours. Drain the system, by running the sinks until empty and refill with fresh water, no bleach. The bleach will remain strong for a while but will continue to clean the system. It will not be harmful to you at this stage. If the smell is too strong or the water is not looking very good you may want to either flush with bleach again or flush with fresh water and refill.

The first step going up into the master also lifts up and out. There should be a small inspection plate that you unscrew to view the outlet of the smaller tank. No other view of bilge other than under the bed which is forward of the lower tank.

The master shower sump handles the midship head sink.

Not sure how the batteries are set up on your boat. I have two 8D's for starting the mains, 12-6 volt golf cart batteries for the house bank, a genset battery and a dedicated battery for the diesel heater. If you truly only have two 8D they may be dual purpose for starting and house. Most systems have been modified by various owners so it is difficult to give you any specifics of a particular boat.

Hope that this helps.

Let me know if you need anything else.

[Guest]

Woodsong, below is an excert from my factory operating manual on the setup/charging of the batteries.

'The port and starboard engines run off start engine battery'.(forward batt on my boat). 'This battery is charged by the port engine.' (why I start my port engine first). 'The accessary battery is charged by the starboard engine'. Page 14 in my manual. As always the PO (previous owner) my have change thing from factory setup.

How do you get the batteries out, With Great Difficulty! I had my replaced last year and the starboard exhaust siliencer was removed and the batteries were slid aft and out the cockpit. This is not a one man job.

If you have not been introduced to Earl Summerville, Hino Guru and Bayliner expert, you need to contact him. Earl makes a trip out to the west coast every year if you require engine maintenance. Earl does monitor this site and will chime in on discussion topics. His contact info: http://www.baylinerguru.com/. Do a search on this site for Earl, brew a pot of coffee and enjoy the reading.

We bought our 4588 now 2 yrs ago and my learning curve has been enhanced by all the great folks on this sight. Best of luck to you on your new boat.

[Foster]

To get water out of the lower tank, the valve to the upper tank needs to be closed. If it's left open the pump draws air and it appears you are out of water. Closing it forces the pump to draw from the lower tank. My process is to 1) open both valves, fill the tanks using both inlets. Close bottom tank valve, drawing water from upper tank. When it goes empty then I close the upper and open the lower. This draws water out of the lower tank. Next fill cycle we use the lower tank first

[bocadmin]

we are you one stop shop for all of your thuster needs. www.sidepowerthruster.com