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Average shop hours to install new engine-gctid353742

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    Average shop hours to install new engine-gctid353742

    Hi guys,

    I am going to buy a remanufactured engine from MM or Rapido. I have a 1986 1950 Capri w/ a cracked 305 and a 275 outdrive. I'm going to upgrade with a 350. I called a local boat repair shop and explained to them what I was looking to do. They quoted me roughly 15 to 17 hrs of labor to do the job, and around $1500.

    From what I've read on these boards, that many hrs seems a bit high. What do you all think?

    #2
    kellynm wrote:
    Hi guys,

    I am going to buy a remanufactured engine from MM or Rapido. I have a 1986 1950 Capri w/ a cracked 305 and a 275 outdrive. I'm going to upgrade with a 350. I called a local boat repair shop and explained to them what I was looking to do. They quoted me roughly 15 to 17 hrs of labor to do the job, and around $1500.

    From what I've read on these boards, that many hrs seems a bit high. What do you all think?
    Take it, that job will require 2 persons , mostly at the same time for part of it, and some way to lift the engines into place, as well as all the connections and alignment, especially if they are removing the old engine, shop rate is on par for the average for a professional shop, also consider any parts that cost extra and not expected, the labor should be close to the same as the quote. get a written quote with a specific concerning any extras that may arise for parts not normally covered for the work at hand. The about quote does get it, get a firm written quote.
    Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

    Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
    Twin 350 GM power
    Located in Seward, AK
    Retired marine surveyor

    Comment


      #3
      $1500 for the job is just about right. I've seen slightly lower quotes, but it's all relative to what labor rate can be justified in your geographic area. This is of course assuming it is a straight removal and replacement...and that new stringers do not need to be fabricated or blocks do not need to be built, rot does not need to be addressed, etc. Make sure you get a written quote for the job AND a "worst case scenario" perspective from the mechanic. That way, you'll know what to expect if rot is encountered or additional fabrication needs to be done.

      Comment


        #4
        These are among the easiest engines to R&R. If you have a means of lifting it, you could easily do this yourself.

        Here's your procedure (or at least how I do these):

        Pull the four lag bolts from the fwd engine mounts, leaving the actual mounts attached to the engine.

        Carefully remove the exhaust risers and rubber couplers.

        Disconnect all electrical and fuel lines.

        Disconnect the sea water suction hose from the sea water pump.

        If space fwd of the engine is limited, remove the sea water pump (needs to slide fwd a bit).

        Disconnect throttle cable.

        Separate engine from flywheel cover...... six bolts unless the top bolt was used, then seven bolts.

        Lift and slide fwd enough to disengage the PDS from the drive coupler.

        Now she's ready to be lifted out.

        Time spent.... about 2 -3 hours for the novice.

        If you separate the engine from the flywheel cover, and if you leave the engine mount adjustments un-touched and marked Stbd/Port, here's what you save:

        One new rubber cushion, no engine side-to-side adjustment, no engine up/down adjustment. If anything, raise the lower nuts up a tad and equally.

        The PDS can be removed, new bearings/seals installed, replaced and grease cavity pre-filled, all while the F/C still installed in the transom shield.

        Going back in with the engine will take you about 3 +/- hours including messing around with adjusting this and that.

        I've thrown in a few extra hours, and it still comes out to be about 8-10 maaaaaaybe 12 hours for a first time at it.

        For a pro, this could be substantially less.

        This does not include any drive or PDS work and/or time swapping engine parts from old to new.

        Did they include removing the transmission and doing PDS bearings?

        This is work that should be protocal for any mechanic that is familiar with the AQ series engine/drive.

        It should be done during the engine removal... otherwise, we've missed our oportunity.

        This work scope includes:

        Draining the drive gear oil, and removing the transmission.

        This opens things up to remove the PDS so that you can replace the PDS bearings/seals.

        You can do new drive shaft bellows at the same time.

        Time spent..... about 3 + hours including the new PDS bearings.

        Cost for bearings/seals is approx $45 from a good bearing supplier.

        Bellows and O-rings approx $95 for OEM.

        ********************

        It would help us to see the work scope.

        Your call on the 15 to 17 hours.......... Seems steep to me if it does not include PDS work.

        Keep in mind that some of these shops are not up to speed on the AQ series Volvo Penta and/or don't care to work on them.

        Depends on your area and which stern drive predominately captures the market.

        boatworkfl wrote:
        ........... get a firm written quote.[/B]
        Yes!

        As said, these are among the easiest and most predictable engines to R&R.

        An estimate leaves it open... a quote clearly defines the work scope.

        Of course anything that is discovered to require additional time/parts would become an "Extra".

        Also note that if going to a post 1987 engine, your existing 153 tooth flywheel will not work on the later crankshaft flange.

        The more common 168 tooth flywheel will not work in your flywheel cover (aka bell housing in the auto world).

        Edit:

        BTW, there are only a few marine specific techniques that would apply to an R&R of this engine.

        If you have a few good automotive mechanic type buddies who would help you do this, you'll find that it is very simple and easy.

        Not much different from that of changing an auto engine. In fact, in many respects, it is much much easier.

        Food for thought.

        .
        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

        Comment


          #5
          I did my engine RE...RE in 4 days.... 2 sat. 2 sun.

          I have a good mechanic background....but is not rocket science....

          I used a back hoe....to pull and drop the engine....

          to make easier because I took all the stuff out of the motor also a 305 like urs....

          The only thing I had to buy was the aligne tool that was 80 bucks

          Label all the wires, hoses, pieces and no issues....

          The wife was beside taking pics and laughing of me all the time with me cursing those old rusted bolts....lol....

          Great duy for who like to do it....

          tks

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks guys for all the pointers and tips. Rick... thank you for the "procedure:. Here's my thought on this project and actually most of the repairs around the house I do: I'd rather screw it up and then call in the professionals before I just call them.

            So with that in mind, I am going to order an engine from MM (why play around with anyone else, right?), pull mine out carefully taking pictures along the way and install the new one. I can't think of a better way to learn my boat than that!

            I'm gonna have to get the kegerator filled for this project!!!

            Thanks again all!

            I do have one question about the flywheel... it sounds like the flywheel that is on the current 305 will not work with the 350... is that right? The new engine is going to be a one piece rear main seal, which I've learned from various websites is what I have.

            KC :-)

            Comment


              #7
              kellynm wrote:
              Thanks guys for all the pointers and tips. Rick... thank you for the "procedure:

              [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
              You are welcome. [/COLOR]

              Here's my thought on this project and actually most of the repairs around the house I do:

              1.... I'd rather screw it up and then call in the professionals before I just call them.

              2.... So with that in mind, I am going to order an engine from MM (why play around with anyone else, right?), pull mine out carefully taking pictures along the way and install the new one. I can't think of a better way to learn my boat than that!

              3.... I'm gonna have to get the kegerator filled for this project!!!

              4... I do have one question about the flywheel... it sounds like the flywheel that is on the current 305 will not work with the 350... is that right? The new engine is going to be a one piece rear main seal, which I've learned from various websites is what I have.

              KC :-)
              1... Well, if that works.... sure!

              2... Yes, pictures, notes, tags, etc, will help you out.

              3... No beer until the end of the day when all of the tools have been picked up and put away!

              4... This has to do with several things:

              a).. there is a change to the rear crankshaft flange after '86. This is re; the 2 pc -vs- 1 pc rear main seal that you read about.

              b).. your red 1 pc Volvo Penta flywheel cover will not accept the 168 tooth flywheel.... ya need the 153 tooth flywheel. (the later 153 is a Camero car application) It does not need to be a new flywheel.... but must have a good ring gear on it.

              c).. there is also a change in the tin wear (oil pan).

              d).. there was also a change to the intake manifold bolt angle within a certain year range.

              e).. valve covers become center bolt.

              None of these will prevent you from using a post '86 engine.... ya just need these parts.

              Left side: 153 tooth for the later crankshaft flange (also left side) ....... Right side: 153 tooth for the earlier crankshaft flange.



              This is why the later engine will require a different 153 tooth flywheel.
              Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
              2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
              Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
              Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
              Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

              Comment


                #8
                2850Bounty wrote:


                d).. there was also a change to the intake manifold bolt angle within a certain year range.
                How can I tell if my existing manifold will work other than placing it on the reman engine and determining if it "looks and feels" correct?

                Again,

                Many Thanks!

                PS. For what it's worth, I decided to become a member of the BOC... the amount of help and information on this site from fellow members is amazing and worth every penny. It's the best money I've spent on the boat yet! For those of you who haven't joined... join! Don't be scared!

                Comment


                  #9
                  kellynm wrote:
                  How can I tell if my existing manifold will work other than placing it on the reman engine and determining if it "looks and feels" correct?

                  Again,

                  Many Thanks!

                  PS. For what it's worth, I decided to become a member of the BOC... the amount of help and information on this site from fellow members is amazing and worth every penny. It's the best money I've spent on the boat yet! For those of you who haven't joined... join! Don't be scared!
                  Geez... I just re-read Ricks post... BOLT ANGLE.... should be obvious when I try to tighten the manifold on the block....

                  Need more coffee....

                  Comment

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