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Black smoke.. in the summer?

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    Black smoke.. in the summer?

    BOAT. We all know what that stands for.


    It's 88 degrees here in Washington. Beautiful weather. So I decided to take mine out for a spin. I wasn't out long before I noticed a gigantic black cloud behind me. Only develops at 1100 rpm.

    I turned around and docked.

    Before docking tried a couple of simple things. I throttle down both engines.. and throttled up one at a time. Starboard engine alone.. black smoke. Port engine alone.. black smoke. what are the odds that both engines developed exactly the same issue at exactly the same time? Kind of crazy.

    Diesel 101: black smoke is unburnt fuel.

    After docking I removed the air filters and spun the turbo by hand on the intake side. No problem. Spins freely and not seized.

    I inspected the air filters and they seem to be in good shape. I do have aftermarket air filters on both engines. They're high flow sports filters and I don't think they would constrict air flow.

    So turbos seem to be fine.. air filters are probably fine.. what's left? Fuel pump timing?

    I'm guessing that this issue was around all this time but undetected since it was cool out. The weather is the only factor changed..

    Thoughts?

    These are Hino EP100 TI... Turbo and intercooled
    Current boats: 1989 Bayliner Avanti 4285 & 1986 Catalina 30 Sailboat
    Past boats:
    1979 Catalina 30
    1997 Bayliner 2855
    1996 Bayliner 2855
    1990 Bayliner Avanti 2955

    #2
    Injectors ?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Steve62 View Post
      Injectors ?
      Yeah definitely suspect too.

      Has anyone removed injectors from a Hino? Is there a special puller or do they just pop out after releasing the 2 bolts?
      Current boats: 1989 Bayliner Avanti 4285 & 1986 Catalina 30 Sailboat
      Past boats:
      1979 Catalina 30
      1997 Bayliner 2855
      1996 Bayliner 2855
      1990 Bayliner Avanti 2955

      Comment


        #4
        Before popping out injectors can you verify you're building proper boost? In every diesel ive owned, at one time or another ive had a vacuum hose crack due to age or a charge pipe jump off. In all situations i had low power and black smoke as there is not enough air. I doubt you have any charge pipes to jump off and vacuum hoses should be metal tubes with banjo bolts on many marine applications.

        A clogged air filter will also kill power and cause smoke but seems you've solved that one.


        Im not familiar with hino diesels. Just some diesels in general


        Comment


          #5
          smoking black at 1100 rpm, is this in gear or in neutral?

          if in neutral, after running at 1100 rpm for a few minutes, does the smoke begin to clear up?

          if in gear, it could be that the engine is pulling hard enough at that hull speed vs low engine rpm that the black smoke could be normal....

          its highly unlikely that both engines would develop a problem at the same time, unless its something to do with the diesel that they are burning, or an air restriction from a common intake system....

          if the black smoke clears up at higher rpm, then its unlikely to be an injector or pump (fuel delivery) problem,..

          and the diesel fuel you pump in is not always the same blend, and sometimes not even the same quality, so it could be fuel related....


          NU LIBERTE'
          Salem, OR

          1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
          5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
          N2K equipped throughout..
          2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
          2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
          '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
          Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

          Comment


            #6
            Good call on air intake, any chance birds, bugs or mice could have made a nest in the air intake lines coming into the engine bay?

            Comment


              #7
              One important detail I left out... there is no smoke when throttling up to 2200 rpm in neutral. The smoke is only present under load of acceleration in gear. It's thick - you can't see through it.

              And just one more item that came to mind the other day... I'm due to have the bottom job done so there's likely to be new growth now that it's warm out. I'm guessing that when I throttled up over 1100 RPM the bottom growth may have created a big load on the engine... causing the black smoke. But - if the engine was running well a load shouldn't cause black smoke anyway, right?

              The OEM air box has been removed and replaced with a (automotive) performance intake. I've had it on a plane with these filters on. I removed & inspected them. They were clean.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_20200730-101536_Gallery.jpg Views:	0 Size:	555.4 KB ID:	594268
              Current boats: 1989 Bayliner Avanti 4285 & 1986 Catalina 30 Sailboat
              Past boats:
              1979 Catalina 30
              1997 Bayliner 2855
              1996 Bayliner 2855
              1990 Bayliner Avanti 2955

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by PickleRick View Post
                Before popping out injectors can you verify you're building proper boost?
                It's a little tricky. There's no black smoke in neutral. To reproduce the issue, I have to be under way with a load on the engine. I can't be at the helm and in the engine room. I'll need to recruit some help for that.

                I don't know if the marina would be ok with me throttling up in gear while tied down
                Current boats: 1989 Bayliner Avanti 4285 & 1986 Catalina 30 Sailboat
                Past boats:
                1979 Catalina 30
                1997 Bayliner 2855
                1996 Bayliner 2855
                1990 Bayliner Avanti 2955

                Comment


                  #9
                  If you suspect growth id maybe wait to do anything until after the bottom is clean. Big heavy boats with a lot of growth can cause massive loads and cause smoke just like a diesel truck pulling a big loader.

                  in neutral you have no load on the engine. Ive had some turbo set ups that built little to no boost without a load.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    an older (NON electronic) well tuned engine can smoke when accelerating under load.... but should clear up as the rpm and speed stabilizes, unless its pulling hard at that speed... and if the engine never gets run at a high rpm, or has been going along idling for an extended time, when the throttle is increased, the black smoke can roll for a little bit til the cylinder comes up to temp and burns off the carbon and soot that may be soaked with raw fuel, either in the intake, the combustion chamber or the exhaust manifold... the soot and carbon needs to kept burnt off to keep the smoking to a minimum when accelerating.


                    NU LIBERTE'
                    Salem, OR

                    1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                    5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                    N2K equipped throughout..
                    2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                    2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                    '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                    Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It is a purely mechanical diesel. There are no sensors or electrical leads to the injectors.

                      I didn't push it. Throttled down from 1100 rpm as soon as I saw the thick black smoke behind me.

                      Suppose I ignored the smoke and gave it the beans. 100% throttle. Could that damage the engine?

                      I'm guessing that excessive unburnt fuel could lead to damage on the cylinder walls and foul up injectors with carbon.
                      Current boats: 1989 Bayliner Avanti 4285 & 1986 Catalina 30 Sailboat
                      Past boats:
                      1979 Catalina 30
                      1997 Bayliner 2855
                      1996 Bayliner 2855
                      1990 Bayliner Avanti 2955

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by infy View Post

                        Suppose I ignored the smoke and gave it the beans. 100% throttle. Could that damage the engine?

                        I'm guessing that excessive unburnt fuel could lead to damage on the cylinder walls and foul up injectors with carbon.
                        no damage will occur due to excessive unburnt fuel unless the injectors continue to pump excess amounts of fuel in,, and the engine cant keep up with it.... and then it will take a while for any damage to occur due to the unburnt fuel.....

                        you have to run it hard to get it to clean up, if its going to clean up....




                        NU LIBERTE'
                        Salem, OR

                        1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                        5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                        N2K equipped throughout..
                        2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                        2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                        '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                        Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Centerline2 View Post

                          you have to run it hard to get it to clean up, if its going to clean up....
                          I have seen that more than once, sometimes the fueling is just a bit ahead of how fast the turbo is spooling up (variety of causes).

                          The advice to check boost is a good bit but without a baseline to compare to it is more of is it there v. is it right. If you are doing all this solo - you can use a bit of nylon tube to hook boost gauge up to and have it up a the helm.

                          1999 Sandpiper Pilothouse - Current
                          1989 3888 - 2011-2019, 1985 Contessa - 2005-2011, 1986 21' Trophy 1998-2005
                          Nobody gets out alive.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm fairly satisfied what happened was due to the bottom growth. Given that I never had any black smoke problems over the winter. So.. solved? I guess we will find out once I get it cleaned.

                            But I'm thinking I should still go ahead and pull the injectors and have them checked... It will be one less thing to worry about. They look original. And the engine paint hasn't even been broken. Browsing the service manual, looks like I need a special tool:

                            ‚Äč

                            Looks like a threaded bolt with a weight. I could probably put this together at Lowes/home depot.

                            I'll need to remove the metal lines. You remove all the injector connections and take the fuel line off as 1 part right?

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	20200730_143114.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	119.4 KB
ID:	594305
                            Current boats: 1989 Bayliner Avanti 4285 & 1986 Catalina 30 Sailboat
                            Past boats:
                            1979 Catalina 30
                            1997 Bayliner 2855
                            1996 Bayliner 2855
                            1990 Bayliner Avanti 2955

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Be careful with all those banjo bolt washers, many have rubber sealing rings that like to tear. Same with o rings or sealing washers that seal the injector off to the cylinder.

                              if any tear you'll be losing fuel and/or sucking air. Covid 19 can make shipping slow if you can't get those from a local diesel shop.

                              And yes I always remove fuel rail completely.

                              Comment

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