Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brunswickand Bayliner

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Brunswickand Bayliner

    I have a thought. Brunswick ixnayed the Bayliner small (under 33') cruisers because "they were cutting into Sea Rays profits". Now that S R is divested from Brunswick, Why can't they bring back the popular models which sold well. The buyers have told them what moves.

    I have a degree in Marketing and management. Lets take a scenario. A family is looking for a small cruiser. The are at a boat show and lets say they like a 26' aft cabin. Both Sea Ray and Bayliner have one. Obviously, the S R looks better because it has more "fluff". The SR is 100K and the Bayliner 75K. (Hey, this was in the year 2000). They run the numbers and his credit and he can't qualify for the S R but he can with the Bayliner. SO he buys it.
    This was witnessed my myself when I was looking for a boat.
    Then, Brunswick pulls out the rug from Bayliner. Then the aforementioned family Now will leave the show without buying a boat. as they can't afford the S R .a lot of sales doing this. I wonder if they may be reconsidering now?

    In the south this is called shooting yourself in the foot.
    Captharv 2001 2452
    "When the draft of your boat exceeds the depth of water, you are aground"

    #2
    IMO, they have consistently shot themselves about half way up. It’s very typical, as you recognize Harv, there’s a buyout or merger and the alpha managers decide they know more about the corporate culture and market than the ones who have been right there for years. Next thing the customer knows is the price of that, admittedly for much of the line, entry level boat has gone through the roof, manufacturing has moved and quality is suffering. Then, they take the high end of the product line and try to make it “more valuable” in the eyes of the customer, with higher prices, who goes elsewhere. Go figure.
    I’m all for synergy and lean manufacturing and the opportunities were certainly there. In procurement alone there is significant leverage for all of the chemicals and hardware. It has to be responsive to each product line, but the people who do the job can set that up if they are allowed. Wanna know how to do a job? Ask the person doing it what could work better. The fabrication and assembly is more highly skilled than most management, planning, engineering and those who have never done any of the work understand. Uncharacteristically they appear to allow Hatteras to operate fairly independently and that seems to be working in that market. Other manufacturers are changing the process of fiberglass construction and are doing well and reaping the benefits of higher quality and lower waste.
    I’m not holding my breath for Brunswick to begin offering anything in the motoryacht class again, but done right, I think there’s a market.
    P/C Pete
    Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
    1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
    Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
    MMSI 367770440

    Comment


      #3
      Now you have hit on a subject I have been pondering. recently I was reading an article concerning farm tractors and the rise on the used market, the long and short is the new units pricing are out of reach and the complexity of the mechanical keeps the DIY behind the * ball, is the happening with the smaller cruisers?"
      Slightly modified 2859 6.5 Diesel Bravo III X drive
      96 Dodge 5.9 5 speed Gear vender OD.

      Comment


        #4
        I trade on the side so this is an interesting subject I've been keeping an eye on.. Last I read, brunswick has no intention to divest Sea Ray. They claim to be emphasizing the sale of smaller boats. They're discontinuing 40'+ models.

        https://www.knoxnews.com/story/money...pen/734546002/
        “In the end, we’ve decided that the best path forward is to keep operating the Sea Ray brand,” he said. “We’re going to focus on sport boats and cruisers, which are made in Tellico. The sale process has been halted.”
        Current boats: 1989 Bayliner Avanti 4285 & 1986 Catalina 30 Sailboat
        Past boats:
        1979 Catalina 30
        1997 Bayliner 2855
        1996 Bayliner 2855
        1990 Bayliner Avanti 2955

        Comment


          #5
          imo the boat makers lost the recipe on how to make and sell boats at a price point that is affordable to the average joe boater. A boat is a luxury and when the costs exceeds the average household budget then you limit your customer base. Bayliner originally sold lots of boats because they were made well and affordable. A 2003 245 sold new below 50K and a new Dodge truck to pull it cost under 30K. Now days an equivalent boat would probably be north of 150K but that new truck is still under 40K if you don't get all those bells and whistles.


          Brunswick Corporation to Showcase Industry Leading Technology and Provide a Glimpse into the Future of Boating at CES 2020
          It's all a dream
          '03 245 5.7/BIII & '07 Sedona pontoon

          Comment


          • builderdude
            builderdude commented
            Editing a comment
            Maybe a gasser truck, the diesels seem quite spendy 😳

          • Don9
            Don9 commented
            Editing a comment
            Yup, more like the 2500 slt quad 5.7 hemi with the tow package.

          #6
          Originally posted by Don9 View Post
          imo the boat makers lost the recipe on how to make and sell boats at a price point that is affordable to the average joe boater. A boat is a luxury and when the costs exceeds the average household budget then you limit your customer base. Bayliner originally sold lots of boats because they were made well and affordable. A 2003 245 sold new below 50K and a new Dodge truck to pull it cost under 30K. Now days an equivalent boat would probably be north of 150K but that new truck is still under 40K if you don't get all those bells and whistles.


          Brunswick Corporation to Showcase Industry Leading Technology and Provide a Glimpse into the Future of Boating at CES 2020
          - In 2003 a suitable Dodge pickup was available at just under $20K to $23K
          - with inflation alone $50K in 2003 would be about $70K today
          - the boat industry has had to deal with a multitude of economic and environmental issues
          - younger folks have had to deal with the great recessions, underemployment, school loans , the absence of one job careers etc
          - younger folks desire experiences over assets

          The boating industry in general is not really a good sector to be in compared to many other industries.
          How many on this board have purchased a new Bayliner in the past 10 years?
          How many on this board have ever purchased a new Bayliner?
          Northport NY

          Comment


          • Don9
            Don9 commented
            Editing a comment
            Don't forget the push to cash out your homes equity to pay for toys and trips you really could not afford. People were encouraged to take on way too much debt and most didn't realize the long-term consequences. That fast and loose mentality seems to be changing today.

          #7
          To answer Smitty477 I purchased my boat new I n 93 for 36,000.00 with a trade in of my old 23.5 Monterey that was rebuild from a total, over the years the project is to make it my boat with a few changes and mods. My Truck is old but only has 110,000 Mil on it, so there are ways it can be done.
          Slightly modified 2859 6.5 Diesel Bravo III X drive
          96 Dodge 5.9 5 speed Gear vender OD.

          Comment


            #8
            Originally posted by fritzman View Post
            My Truck is old but only has 110,000 Mil on it, so there are ways it can be done.
            Fritz, you got another 150,000 still left on that old diesel truck. You might need to replace the transmission at some point unless it’s a manual.
            👍🏼
            Dave
            Edmonds, WA
            "THE FIX"
            '93 2556
            Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

            The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
            Misc. projects thread
            https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

            Comment


              #9
              Manufacturing of old, is no longer the accepted norm...I saw it firsthand where I worked, and now the world is seeing its effects, with the 737 MAX......finally so are those, responsible, but too late, for many.

              I remember reading a story about how Bayliner improved its quality, after suffering name recognition, that is still around today...when they gave back to the shop floor, bonuses, if the boat had no warranty expenditures. I recall it had the effect of them taking responsibility for watching/reporting/correcting....substandard work before it was completed, for it was "their" money they were losing, at that point.

              I have a question re: marketing.

              In this world of instant recall, and INTERNET access, wealth, and luxury, is not PC correct. What use to be a "dream", a goal, a sign of achievement, is pretty much frowned upon, and deemed a waste, extravagant, selfish.......when so many other matters are pressing. I am not looking to start a political argument, just wondering how much that might factor in, on companies not wishing to spend the money on products that are questionable in the current societal climate?

              Comment


              • Don9
                Don9 commented
                Editing a comment
                It probably depends on what world you think you live in. The world that is described to you by others might be much different then the world you actually see and experience everyday yourself.

              #10
              I recently spent an hour or so chatting with Dan Byrd, who likely knows as much about Bayliner/Meridian as anyone on the planet. He talked a lot about the 2007-08 downturn affecting the entire boating industry, but was talking mostly about Bay/Meridian. $400,000 + boats either sat, or were purchased and immediately worth 50% of the purchase price. The amount of debt in the industry was staggering, and a lot was never recovered. Read this bit of history:
              https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ndustrys-pain/
              I was looking at a very well kept 2007 490 Pilothouse. I asked him why such a nice boat had such spartan extras: No AC, no diesel heat. Pretty basic boat as built. It had some nice updates. This is what kicked off the conversation, as I have a 2008 341 flybridge.
              Tally and Vicki
              "Wickus" Meridian 341
              MMSI 338014939

              Comment


                #11

                #9.1
                Don9 commented
                Today, 11:43 AM
                It probably depends on what world you think you live in. The world that is described to you by others might be much different then the world you actually see and experience everyday yourself.

                I am trying to envision their "strictly" capitalistic views......its still trying to sell a customer a better mouse trap, at a profit...yes?

                Comment


                  #12
                  Originally posted by talman View Post
                  I recently spent an hour or so chatting with Dan Byrd, who likely knows as much about Bayliner/Meridian as anyone on the planet. He talked a lot about the 2007-08 downturn affecting the entire boating industry, but was talking mostly about Bay/Meridian. $400,000 + boats either sat, or were purchased and immediately worth 50% of the purchase price. The amount of debt in the industry was staggering, and a lot was never recovered. Read this bit of history:
                  https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ndustrys-pain/
                  I was looking at a very well kept 2007 490 Pilothouse. I asked him why such a nice boat had such spartan extras: No AC, no diesel heat. Pretty basic boat as built. It had some nice updates. This is what kicked off the conversation, as I have a 2008 341 flybridge.
                  Here is the growth out of that slump...... https://www.nmma.org/press/article/22428

                  Comment


                    #13
                    Thanks for helping me make my point:
                    • Sales of new freshwater fishing boats are estimated to be up 2-4 percent to 75,000 units in 2018; fishing is the most popular activity done aboard a boat.
                    • New personal watercraft sales are estimated to be up 6-8 percent to 68,000 units in 2018; with accessible entry-level price points, personal watercraft are often considered a gateway to boat ownership.
                    • New pontoon sales are estimated to be up 4-6 percent to 58,000 units in 2018; the versatility of the latest pontoons offers an all-in-one experience from fishing to cruising to watersports.
                    • Sales of new wakesport boats—popular for wakesurfing and wakeboarding and attractive to new and younger boaters—are estimated to be up 9-11 percent to 10,000 units in 2018.
                    • New cruiser sales—boats between 22 and 32 feet, popular for relaxing, entertaining and ‘cruising’—are estimated to be up 2-4 percent to 9,000 units in 2018.++
                    The smallest category, by far, is cruisers. Go to Union Marine. Where their most successful sales people used to make money selling BABoats, the ones who are making money have adapted to selling boats that are not cruisers. The used inventory for Meridian Boats is almost non-existent.
                    Tally and Vicki
                    "Wickus" Meridian 341
                    MMSI 338014939

                    Comment


                      #14
                      I just got home from the Los Angeles boat show and I think there were 3 small cruisers there total. A 28’ Monterey that no one was looking at, and 2 Cutwaters with outboards that were receiving a little attention. I think families are simply not interested in cruisers anymore. It seems to be a retiree thing like motorhomes.
                      Now there were hundreds of pontoon boats, hundreds of wakesurf boats, hundreds and hundreds of the day speed boats.
                      And I do not think it is a money thing, the little 22’ wakesurf boats are 150k and up! As well as many of the pontoons!
                      I think most families just don't have the time to spend more than a day boating. Or the kids do not want to be unconnected from civilization for more than a day boating.
                      Esteban
                      Huntington Beach, California
                      2018 Element 16
                      Currently looking for 32xx in South Florida
                      Former Bayliners: 3218, 2859, 2252, 1952

                      Comment


                        #15
                        The wake boat group is growing and on the plus side keeping food on my table since there bound to get banged up, to answer Dave the truck is a 5 speed and I pull in 4 and the Gear Vender over, saves the 5th gear.
                        Slightly modified 2859 6.5 Diesel Bravo III X drive
                        96 Dodge 5.9 5 speed Gear vender OD.

                        Comment

                      Working...
                      X