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    #16
    In the middle of the that picture is the water separator. https://www.marinepartssupply.com/book/18/629/ It’s an item that the EH700 shop manual ignores it to the right of the fuel filter assembly and has a serrated ring.
    P/C Pete
    Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
    1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
    Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
    MMSI 367770440

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      #17
      Originally posted by Pcpete View Post
      In the middle of the that picture is the water separator. https://www.marinepartssupply.com/book/18/629/ It’s an item that the EH700 shop manual ignores it to the right of the fuel filter assembly and has a serrated ring.
      Exactly and a good point - that water sep. has an orange ring inside that will rise if there is water present in that filter.
      I cannot clearly see the priming pump in that diagram but it looks like it maybe under the water sep.
      If you do not know how to prime the system please do not start the job.
      Priming after filter replacements is required.

      That does look like a Racor 900 series - the past linked article by sbmar is still very applicable and if you had vacuum gages they would have solved this already.

      Your Bayliner seems to be a very rare model - I have been on only one and have known of only 3 over the past 30 years. All of the ones I knew about had CATS.
      Northport NY

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        #18
        I'll be back at the marina this weekend and get the model and specifics. Glad you guys are bringing up the priming. I've never had to deal with a Racor before. I've owned a 89' 2985, a 96' 2855, 79' sailboat, and another 97' 2855. None of which were anywhere near as complex as this 4285.

        I was told by the seller that this particular example was one of only a few custom built for Bayliner executives. I'm not sure if that's true or not. There's very little info on these. However, when I registered the 4285 at the DOL they asked if it had 400 hp engines or 330hp engines. I'm guessing the CATS are 330hp.

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          #19
          Originally posted by infy View Post
          I'll be back at the marina this weekend and get the model and specifics. Glad you guys are bringing up the priming. I've never had to deal with a Racor before. I've owned a 89' 2985, a 96' 2855, 79' sailboat, and another 97' 2855. None of which were anywhere near as complex as this 4285.

          I was told by the seller that this particular example was one of only a few custom built for Bayliner executives. I'm not sure if that's true or not. There's very little info on these. However, when I registered the 4285 at the DOL they asked if it had 400 hp engines or 330hp engines. I'm guessing the CATS are 330hp.
          "Glad you guys are bringing up the priming. I've never had to deal with a Racor before"
          The Racor filter should be filled to the brim so priming is easy - this is not the 'last' filter before the injection pump so it does not need to be pre filtered fuel.
          The one engine filter is the one that will need to be primed.


          There will be a priming pump that is stored collapsed that will need the top 'unscrewed' for it to rise and act as a plunger to prime the filter.
          Based on your pictures posted on "The Hull Truth" it appears that one of these pumps was replaced as it is rusty and not painted engine color.
          - unscrew the cap
          - Pull the primer up
          - open the bleed bolt above the filter housing
          - pump the plunger down until you hear a 'squeak' and the plunger gets hard to push
          - this may be 20-30 pumps or more

          Remember - before you removed the filters you turned off the fuel supply with the fuel valves so open them again before priming.
          If the engine does not start within a few seconds it is not primed.
          It is usually best is someone can take you through this the first time in person .

          PS - The CATS were 375 hp. on the ones I saw. Maybe only 10 produced likely half left or so.
          Northport NY

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            #20
            I figure I can't really hurt anything if I don't bleed the fuel system properly. I'll give it a shot and see if I can figure it out.

            Found a page in the manual on the process.

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              #21
              The Racor model is 900FG.

              ​​​​​Both filters are out. The secondary filter looks fairly new... Maybe replaced within the last 2 years. The Racor filter on the other hand is a bit of a mess... Could be the issue.

              West Marine stocks the Racor 2040N-02 filter locally... I'm trying to get the specs on the secondary. None of the printed numbers are giving me a part. Nothing in the manual except "paper filter".

              Racor pictured on the left.
              ​​​​

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                #22
                "
                ​​​​​Both filters are out. The secondary filter looks fairly new... Maybe replaced within the last 2 years. The Racor filter on the other hand is a bit of a mess... Could be the issue."
                Based on vuisual only the Racor does not look that bad either - unfortuneatly appearance is a very diffcult way to judge filter cindition so that is where vac gages come inlto play.


                "
                West Marine stocks the Racor 2040N-02 filter locally"
                That looks like a 2 mic elementy - the correct filters for that will likley be the 30 mic equivalent or at least a 10 mic. similarly available.

                "... I'm trying to get the specs on the secondary. None of the printed numbers are giving me a part. Nothing in the manual except "paper filter"
                Going by visual only (i know....not a good idea) the on engine filters look just like the ones on the Hino EH700 series engines. If that is the case then the filters are avaoableby by various manufacturers and the niumbers are in the 'sticky' for Hino engines in this section - we used Baldwin and WIX brands.

                As the filters do not look that bad there is another thought - do you know if the boat had sat for very long and also if the fuel tank vents coudl be plugged?
                Do you have any other symptms when attemptiing to thorttel up past the 1,700 or so you are getting?

                Northport NY

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                  #23
                  Good chance this is a turbo failing. Very good chance.

                  I WOULD NOT take anything apart on my diesel engines without first checking if you have turbo boost.

                  I might change the fuel filter first but for sure the VERY next thing I would do is see if the turbo was supplying boost.

                  I have had this exact same failure scenario, and after that I installed boost and EGT gauges.

                  KEVIN SANDERS
                  4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                  where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                  https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

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                    #24
                    Another thought - Is the engine that is having the rpm issue the same engine that had the primer pump replaced in the picture on "The Hull Truth" ?
                    Northport NY

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                      #25
                      It occurs to me that I haven't checked to see it it stalls in neutral or if it needs to be under load. I only ran into the problem when trying to accelerate on to a plane.

                      I'm planning to put everything back together with new filters and see if the problem is resolved before taking any other steps. The racor filter does look fouled up.

                      Otherwise..

                      Option 1:
                      If the problem persists, I'm thinking the next steps may be to bypass all the fuel lines and fuel tanks. Run the engine directly from a new fuel line in a fresh diesel fuel jug. That will indicate if the problem is in the tank/vents/lines/fuel or in the pump/injectors/turbos/other..

                      Option 2:
                      Another thing I could try.. Flip the fuel supply valves. Route the starboard fuel tank -> port engine. Route the port fuel tank -> starboard engine. If the starboard engine begins to stall like the port engine did and the port engine runs fine then the problem is in the fuel supply before the pump.

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                      I feel like I should try these before worrying about the turbos.. They're the lower hanging fruit at the moment. But who knows, maybe the racor filter solves the problem

                      Originally posted by smitty477 View Post
                      "
                      ​​​​​Do you have any other symptms when attemptiing to thorttel up past the 1,700 or so you are getting?
                      Anything I should pay attention to in particular?

                      Originally posted by smitty477 View Post
                      Another thought - Is the engine that is having the rpm issue the same engine that had the primer pump replaced in the picture on "The Hull Truth" ?
                      That fuel filter is located port side on the port engine. Up against the hull. I didn't have any photos of that side so likely nothing posted with it.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Although several progressively more complex issues may be causing the engine symptoms described I’d take the Occam’s Razor route and start by changing the fuel filters before I worried about the turbo.
                        Jim Gandee
                        1989 3888
                        Hino 175's
                        Fire Escape
                        [email protected]

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                        • Pcpete
                          Pcpete commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Not that I’ve ever spent a few boat bucks only to find it was something cheap and easy to fix.

                        #27
                        Originally posted by smitty477 View Post
                        As the filters do not look that bad there is another thought - do you know if the boat had sat for very long and also if the fuel tank vents coudl be plugged?
                        Do you have any other symptms when attemptiing to thorttel up past the 1,700 or so you are getting?[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

                        An easy way to check this is to loosen or remove the gas cap and run the engine. If the issue goes away, the cause was probably a clogged vent.
                        1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
                        2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
                        Anacortes, WA

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                          #28
                          Originally posted by Norton_Rider View Post


                          An easy way to check this is to loosen or remove the gas cap and run the engine. If the issue goes away, the cause was probably a clogged vent.
                          Exactly...!!!
                          Northport NY

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                            #29
                            Originally posted by infy View Post
                            It occurs to me that I haven't checked to see it it stalls in neutral or if it needs to be under load. I only ran into the problem when trying to accelerate on to a plane.

                            I'm planning to put everything back together with new filters and see if the problem is resolved before taking any other steps. The racor filter does look fouled up.

                            Otherwise..

                            Option 1:
                            If the problem persists, I'm thinking the next steps may be to bypass all the fuel lines and fuel tanks. Run the engine directly from a new fuel line in a fresh diesel fuel jug. That will indicate if the problem is in the tank/vents/lines/fuel or in the pump/injectors/turbos/other..

                            Option 2:
                            Another thing I could try.. Flip the fuel supply valves. Route the starboard fuel tank -> port engine. Route the port fuel tank -> starboard engine. If the starboard engine begins to stall like the port engine did and the port engine runs fine then the problem is in the fuel supply before the pump.

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                            I feel like I should try these before worrying about the turbos.. They're the lower hanging fruit at the moment. But who knows, maybe the racor filter solves the problem



                            Anything I should pay attention to in particular?



                            That fuel filter is located port side on the port engine. Up against the hull. I didn't have any photos of that side so likely nothing posted with it.

                            "
                            Another thing I could try.. Flip the fuel supply valves. Route the starboard fuel tank -> port engine. Route the port fuel tank -> starboard engine. If the starboard engine begins to stall like the port engine did and the port engine runs fine then the problem is in the fuel supply before the pump."

                            Yes - this is a good way to quickly rule out sections of potential problems.

                            "I feel like I should try these before worrying about the turbos.
                            Anything I should pay attention to in particular?"

                            Do you have black smoke coming from the offending engine when approaching the limited rpm?


                            If it were a turbo I would expect a large amount of black smoke coming from the exhaust beginning at about 1,200 rpm and increasing from there.
                            Never seen a turbo problem that caused and engine to lose appreciable rpm - it only limits rpm at a specific number but not reduce it thereafter.
                            Never seen a turbo problem that would reduce and engine to zero rpm.
                            I have seen a completely blocked exhaust that caused symptoms like these.
                            Northport NY

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                              #30
                              Originally posted by smitty477 View Post


                              "
                              Another thing I could try.. Flip the fuel supply valves. Route the starboard fuel tank -> port engine. Route the port fuel tank -> starboard engine. If the starboard engine begins to stall like the port engine did and the port engine runs fine then the problem is in the fuel supply before the pump."

                              Yes - this is a good way to quickly rule out sections of potential problems.

                              "I feel like I should try these before worrying about the turbos.
                              Anything I should pay attention to in particular?"

                              Do you have black smoke coming from the offending engine when approaching the limited rpm?


                              If it were a turbo I would expect a large amount of black smoke coming from the exhaust beginning at about 1,200 rpm and increasing from there.
                              Never seen a turbo problem that caused and engine to lose appreciable rpm - it only limits rpm at a specific number but not reduce it thereafter.
                              Never seen a turbo problem that would reduce and engine to zero rpm.
                              I have seen a completely blocked exhaust that caused symptoms like these.
                              On my 3488 with 330 Cummins engines I had the exact symptom the OP described, or close.

                              I would apply throttle and the engines would both go to around 1700-1800 RPM. Then only one would advance. Increasing throttle caused the one with the bad turbo to loose RPM from there.

                              Boost gauges would tell in a second what the problem if it’s boost related. Vacuum gauges would tell if its a fuel filter problem.

                              I am 100% against just dismantling a engine to “try” stuff. Information is key, but I do not think you are one for just taking apart an engine either, based on your experiences and thoughtful posting over the years.

                              KEVIN SANDERS
                              4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                              where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                              https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

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