Buying first Bayliner need advice-gctid401427

[Guest]

I am looking to buy one of 2, 2450 cieras this week and need some advice. Both are in good shape for their age but one has a 5.0L with a V/P 280 out drive and the other has a 5.8L OMC Cobra. Which is better? I would loose trim ability with V/P because it isnt an option. But I have also heard negatives about OMC? Is this the same old Ford vs Chevy debate or is one truly better?

Thanks,

RG

[Guest]

As far as I know, cobra parts are difficult to find.

I would largely base my decision on available mechanics unless you plan to do work yourself. By me, NO ONE works on Volvo. This is Merc country, so when I got a Volvo I was forced to learn it and do the work myself. Because of all the work I've done, I'd only buy Volvo now.

I don't think Merc is bad, but I spent the last 6 years learning the volvo.

[Download_Complete]

Mike is right. Taken on their own merits, the boats themselves are a tossup....I prefer the older 2450 (the Volvo one) in terms of layout as well as slightly (and I do mean slightly) better build quality.

Taking drivetrains into account, things get harder. The 5.8 will be 260 hp to the 5.0's 225. That will make a big difference in performance. The 5.8 will be a Ford, however...I prefer the 5.7s. And anyway, if you ever want more power, a fresh 5.7 is a bolt-in affair, so that wouldn't turn me away too much. So far the Volvo boat is in the lead.

The VOlvo outdrive, on its own merits, is MUCH preferable to the OMC Cobra, even without the power trim. You can swap the lower to a DuoProp and get a LOT more performance, whereas with an OMC Cobra, you don't have as many cheaper options aside from swapping it to an SEI Merc clone. However, you can swap an OMC Cobra to a later model Volvo SX or DPS without too much trouble, either, thanks to Volvo buying OMC's stern drive business in 1994. Parts for the V8 ratio OMC Cobra, and the 5.8 behind it, are relatively easy to come by. Now the OMC boat is in the lead.

The deciding factor would be repair shops. Around here in the midwest, again, its Merc country, and there's really only one Volvo repair shop within a decent drive of my house....and they are not that good. So while I LOVE the AQ series Volvo, that alone would be a major strike against it since I can do some work, but not all of it. The OMC is not without concern either - the OMC has a specific shift cable adjustment and not a lot of shops know how to do that anymore.

Bottom line: Buy the nicest boat, and damn whatever power is behind it. Try to make sure you have a good repair shop lined up who can work on whatever you choose.

But again, on its own merits, the Volvo will be much more satisfying to work on, and run. Very smooth, very quiet, and bulletproof-reliable.

[2850Bounty]

I'm going to assume that this thread has serious intents behind it, and is not intended to start an OMC vs Volvo Penta debate. We don't need that, as we have many BOC members who own the OMC drives, and who are having great service from them and for years.

Some have attested to their Cobra drives not needing any major service work for 20 years or so.

I don't wish any OMC owners any bad luck at all. In fact, I want all OMC drives to work flawlessly, and for a long time to come.

There.... that was my preface.

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The OMC Cobra parts are still available, and probably will be for years yet to come, however, available service would definitely be something to consider. Likewise with Volvo Penta, and the area definitely influences this.

The Cobra is a Gimbal System drive............... rubber hub drive couple, annual engine alignment required, thru-prop exhaust, dog clutch engagement, ESA required, and so on. The ESA will require occasional attention as will shift cable adjustment.

Cobra transom unit has a smaller foot print against the transom.

The Cobra sea water pump is in the upper drive unit.

The Cobra does offer a good Power Trim system.

With the Cobra, you're limited to a certain diameter propeller, of which may or may not be an issue.

The OMC Cobra lends itself to the Volvo Penta SX or DP-S conversion, should you decide upon that.

Search the forum for OMC.

Whereas the Volvo Penta 280 is Main Suspension Fork/Pivot Tube geometry..... all steel B/W drive coupler, no annual engine alignment, no Gimbal suspension, Cone Clutch gear engagement, No ESA or SI to be concerned with, easy bellows replacement, no thru-prop exhaust, and so on. This can make quite a difference in maintenance and service work.

The Volvo transom shield has a larger foot print against the transom.

The Volvo Penta sea water pump is always engine mounted.

No Power Trim until the 280 PT or 290 drive.

Prop diameters range from 14" to 16" in the s/p drives.

The Volvo Penta 280 also lends itself to the Duo Prop lower unit addition.

In either event (OMC or Volvo Penta), the DP conversion or addition is similar to an additional 80+ hp with a single prop drive in the same hull. That is a rough result, but close.

The Cobra appearance is nice and smooth, and quite honestly, the lines offer a later technology look to it.

The Volvo Penta appearance has an older technology look to it..... it took me a while to get past that!

As for dependability, IMO, there is no comparison to be fairly made.

Volvo Penta will usually outlast and outperform the OMC.

To be fair.... each has an array of inherent potential issues, so we don't get off the hook completely.

Have a survey performed..... it will be money well spent.

.

[yachtman]

I think if I had to do the deal knowing what I know I would have to go with the 5.0 with the volvo drive.

I have had omc drive boats and I have had volvo drive boats. Although generally work fine I have found that the volvo was more reliable. Now that could be subjective to those particular boats. Volvo is still around omc is not. All be it you can an now buy new omc chineese made knock off out drives i just saw that last week. Parts wont be a problem but then I wouldnt be thrilled about having to put chineese parts on my boat if I could get around it.

Next is know keep in mind im not a ford lover although I have 3 of them. The 5.0 will be easier and cheaper to work on and get parts for. Many times ford parts are double in price of a gm engine. Also as was pointed out. A 5.0 to 5.7 swap is a meare bolt in and much less than a ford rebuild.

[itsabowtime2]

Purchase the boat that checks better in a survey.

[Guest]

Are prices Similar?

Too many variables stil un-answered for me.

One or both may have rot.

We don't know the hours on either boat.

The OMC equipped one may be much nicer shape and cheaper because the drive was broken all the time

If the price is right you could do a volvo drive swap onto the ford engine and get the best of both worlds..IMO of course.

[2850Bounty]

rkcarguy wrote:
If the price is right you could do a volvo drive swap onto the ford engine and get the best of both worlds.. IMO of course.

Rayn, you must have gotten your fingers crossed on the key board. Happens to me often.

Yes, the Volvo Penta with the SBC would be a good combination.

:kidding

[Guest]

Thanks for all the advice. I was at work today having this same discussion with a few people when out of the blue one of them said not to buy either. Bayliners are known for rotten wood. WTH??? I was just getting the engine thing straight. How can I tell if either the 86 or 89 have rotten wood? Is there any way for me to acess this area to view it? The 86 with the V/P is listed for $5000 and the 89 is $6700. The 89 has many newer amenities and the 86 needs a new braking system on the trailer. So now what are the thoughts on the better Ciera 2450?

[Guest]

Bayliners rotting? Hmmm well I have the same opinion...particularly the smaller 15-18 ft "entry level" boats. But, I bought my 2252 based on price and design, with hopes it would be solid. So far it is great to my knowledge. But any boat with wood will eventually have issues. We boat a old boat once that had been sitting in a barn for a long time. The boat looked new but transom rotten as could be!

[yachtman]

Great here we go....... any boat that has wood in it can have rotton wood. Searays and so on rot too its not just a bayliner problem dont lwt any one fool you.

Best thing is get a survey on the one you want. If it checks out good then buy it.

[Guest]

Rottguinness wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. I was at work today having this same discussion with a few people when out of the blue one of them said not to buy either. Bayliners are known for rotten wood. WTH??? I was just getting the engine thing straight. How can I tell if either the 86 or 89 have rotten wood? Is there any way for me to acess this area to view it? The 86 with the V/P is listed for $5000 and the 89 is $6700. The 89 has many newer amenities and the 86 needs a new braking system on the trailer. So now what are the thoughts on the better Ciera 2450?

An experienced surveyor will be able to determine whether there is rot; and if there is, the extend of the rot. There are a few telltale signs. Flattened stringers and the motor mount bolts turning in the stringer are signs of stringer rot. As far as transom rot goes, rust spots on the inside of the transom near transom penetrations are the most obvious visual sign. If you remove an exterior screw and find rotten wood on the threads, that's a sign of rot -- but this is something only a surveyor should do -- as not properly reinstalling the screw can cause damage that you would be responsible for.

[2850Bounty]

As I said earlier, I'm going to assume that this thread has serious intents behind it.

We're two posts in by the OP, and we're now dicussing SR vs BL and rotten cores.

Honestly, BL earned the reputation years ago with these entry level boats.... no question about it. It has haunted BL for the years to follow.

In the larger hulls, I've seen more or no less issues between either manufacturer.

Visit a boat salvage yard that buys, parts out, and sells these used boats and parts.

Walk around and look at the various hulls that have found the end of their usable life span.

Look in the engine bays, look at the stringers, look at the transom cores. Poke around a bit.

You'll get a very good sampling of just what actually occurs.

So..... if we're going to do Apples/Apples, lets keep it clear and fair.

.

[Guest]

Thanks to everyone who replied. The cheaper of the two was rotten to the core. Transom was so punky, I could pull out handfulls of wood. I will be getting the other this week.

RG

[Guest]

Rottguinness wrote:
Transom was so punky, I could pull out handfulls of wood.

RG