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Why the boating industry is down-gctid810363

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    Why the boating industry is down-gctid810363

    Rather than steal a thread, I wanted to start anew on, quoting matt from another one

    ]Matt: "The industry has not rebounded. The market is still operating on "new normal" sales numbers that are not quite what things where back in 2008, and we're going on the 10 year anniversary of that."

    I don't see the recovery ever coming back. The destruction of the middle class, unbelievable regulations both at manufacture and at the marina, and the financial system has never been the same since Spencer Bachus, former Alabama congressman, allowed the banks to write the federal banking bill around 2004. That was when your credit costs skyrocketed. Add to that the Bush depression that really started in the 2nd quarter of 2007 and boats are just a fantasy for most.

    I go to several boat shows a year and they get smaller and smaller each time. The offerings are rarely anything new other than some electronic gizmos. Disposable income is gone in many cases and just the cost of operation and insurance keeps many saving for college instead of a week on the cruiser. I can show you boats that haven't moved in at least 5 years. People just walked away. These are half a million dollar rides and the banks can't sell them to anyone. I guess that is justice the way some see it, but those beautiful yachts just sit. Inside the storage warehouse are another 200 day boats 17-25 feet just abandoned. That is just in one marina down here. For some reason, the banks won't deal much on them like it is January 2008 again.

    If you have a boat now, enjoy it while you can. There are many, many, many people in many positions that would eliminate boating just like they are killing red snapper fishing in the Gulf of Mexico. The new rule is 2 fish per person per day....Length of season for private citizens? 2 days.[/quote]

    MY additions:

    I agree. Back when I bought the 2452 in 2001 (new), it was optioned out from the factory. MSRP was about 46K. The economy was not that bad, and many "average" people could afford boats. Now, a 24' cruiser equipped to actually cruse, is 80-100K. The salaries have not doubled, so it seams that boat ownership is going back to the wealthy.

    Moreover, the RV industry has doubled since 2001,. and average people can afford new travel trailers/smaller motorhomes. Right now, the RV dealership down the road has a 24', tow behind at $18K. It can be towed by almost any full sized pickup of SUV (about 3000# towing weight). Lets compare boating with RVs. In a boat: A lot of maintenance is required, at a lot of $$$ unless you can do it yourself. Refitting worn out stuff required a lot of mechanical knowledge. You have to keep the boat at a marina or dry storage or trailer it. Even with a 24' boat, 2.5 MPG is considered good. And for many people they only use it 3-4 times a year, so the expense is not justified. Moreover, letting a boat sit without use for 3 month will almost guarantee having to b e towed or not leaving the marina.

    For an RV, I am talking a smaller one as a first purchase. Most come complete and travel ready. Bring your own dishes, kitchen ware clothes and linens. Towing? My friend gets 10 MPG towing a 25' tow behind. He keeps in in his yard alongside his house. It has a bedroom with a wall and door; 2 TVs, 3 burner stove, microwave, 20 gal holding and water tanks, however at a campsite the water and sewer are connected to municipal. It was about 18K new.

    I see full campgrounds near here but almost never a full marina unless of a special event locally.

    Back before 2008, we used to go to some spoil islands near Melbourne or near Sebastian Inlet, on 3 day weekends. Used to be a half dozen boats, boat camping. That is bow anchor and stern line to a tree. On the island, maybe 3-4 groups of tent campers with their runabout type boats tied near their campsite. During 2009, we went there on Memorial and labor day weekends. A few small boats daytime, and nighttime. Have not been back there since.

    In my opinion, when the gas prices spiked at $4 at the pump, and over $5 at marinas, people did not use their boats, but found some other type of recreation. When the gas prices went back down, the people kept their other recreation.

    Just saying....
    Captharv 2001 2452
    "When the draft of your boat exceeds the depth of water, you are aground"

    #2
    One of the big reasons I have a boat (Sink the time and $$ into it) is to get away from the crowd. I enjoy my RV (My OLD CHEAP RV, like my OLD CHEAP boat that is), but when I want to get away from the race, nothing is better than the boat.

    Without the work and skills though, it would be WAY out of reach.

    Chay

    Comment


      #3
      Boating has a place in the market, but only when it is under a certain percentage of effort and income. I also think tastes have shifted to smaller, trailerable boats. I would love a cruiser, but the reality is I will not pay marina fees for it and I do not live in an area that is conducive to cruiser life. When I lived in the 1000 Islands of upstate NY, that was different - a cruiser makes perfect sense up there.

      Personally, my next boat will be between 22 and 24 feet, very trailerable, and a bowrider. It may be a Bayliner VR, or it may not be, but one thing is for sure....I cannot justify anything larger than a 24ish footer, regardless of price.

      My wife and I are making some serious moves here in the next 12 months - a house purchase, a tow vehicle, and a boat, in very quick succession.
      Matt Train
      BOC Site Team
      Chicagoland, IL

      Comment


        #4
        I see some area pockets that have A good boating economy but you get outside of those areas and if you have anything bigger than a small ski boat you can't hardly give the freaking thing away.

        The reason I see and particularly if it's a older boat. Those that have money ( read as the wealthy) either buy newer nicer boats. Those of us that are poorer maybe can afford to purchase but can't afford to maintain or want to spend $10k a year to maintain such a boat.

        Here in my area you can't even give it away. The people's discretionary money has gone away.
        1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
        twin 454's
        MV Mar-Y-Sol
        1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
        Twin chevy 350's inboard
        Ben- Jamin
        spokane Washington

        Comment


          #5
          "yachtman" post=810381 wrote:
          I see some area pockets that have A good boating economy but you get outside of those areas and if you have anything bigger than a small ski boat you can't hardly give the freaking thing away.

          The reason I see and particularly if it's a older boat. Those that have money ( read as the wealthy) either buy newer nicer boats. Those of us that are poorer maybe can afford to purchase but can't afford to maintain or want to spend $10k a year to maintain such a boat.

          Here in my area you can't even give it away. The people's discretionary money has gone away.
          Not so much gone away, as maybe shifted.

          [The following is My Own Opinion]

          The "middle class" is no longer blue collar. Those jobs have been outsourced, cost cut, and generally replaced with either more skilled labor, or other industries.

          Personally, I am in high tech consulting. Right now, I can easily afford anything I want, including a new Cobalt, but "afford" is a slippery slope. I also want a house for my son, and a good retirement and college fund. Add those into the mix and suddenly I am back to "I am just doing okay". But one thing that hasn't changed from when I joined the BOC back in 2000 - I am always chasing my career, and sending it to where my skills are needed most. I started in IT Help desk, and then transitioned to data analysis, and then to SaaS, and then into marketing platforms and digital marketing. ANd my company is on the bleeding edge of that industry, so I can easily see the next skillsets that will be needed, and how badly.

          What is the Middle Class? I think the MIddle Class is now what the Upper Class used to be - median household income of $100,000 per year, dual income, maybe a few kids, with some bad luck in the mix like a few job losses, a foreclosure, etc, but otherwise good solid working people. They might have an older house in a middle suburb of a metropolitan area, a couple of cars in the 6-8 year old range, and working like hell for retirement.

          I believe the people who have seen their incomes drop since their zenith in the 1980s and 1990s have not adapted their careers to stay on the income bubble. I really don't want to get economic and political here, so it's best if I stop there. But I can't just blame the workforce....a drop this dramatic and large is not something you can blame on one or two things. It's systemic, and it comes back to the discussion we are having - the big boat market has contracted and will likely not return to form for years if not decades.
          Matt Train
          BOC Site Team
          Chicagoland, IL

          Comment


            #6
            A good example of the state of the big boat economy would be my recent purchase.

            A 34 foot boat that books for around $27000 bare but came with radar auto pilot and various other goodies and everything works. I purchased for $1000.

            Granted it needs some work but not $ 26000 + worth.
            1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
            twin 454's
            MV Mar-Y-Sol
            1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
            Twin chevy 350's inboard
            Ben- Jamin
            spokane Washington

            Comment


              #7
              SO part of me goes "Damn, you bought that thing for a grand....I want in!". And then the other part of me starts pricing up slip fees for a 34 foot boat with twin big blocks, and the maintenance and gas that goes with that....

              And suddenly I am not interested. :P
              Matt Train
              BOC Site Team
              Chicagoland, IL

              Comment


                #8
                Fuel has not really gone up when factoring in inflation.

                Boat prices, dockage, parts and marine labor have easily beat inflation.

                The boating industry has been one victim of the shrinking middle class.

                I have seen many higher tech jobs go 'overseas' easily regardless of how well trained someone might be.

                When costs rise with the new 'high tech' jobs sufficiently they can and will be moved across the USA and or overseas which will be hard to plan around.

                There are various calculators and charts which attempt to define the middle class which can be fun to play with.

                The ability for any age group to retire comfortably is certainly dropping and the average amount saved as well as the median $$ available for retirement is becoming pretty horrific.
                Northport NY

                Comment


                  #9
                  You might find this interesting;

                  This is from a Trade Publication-
                  John
                  2005 Bayliner 285
                  6.2 Mercury Bravo 3

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You may find this interesting-this is from a trade publication

                    http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2017/0...sletter-052317
                    John
                    2005 Bayliner 285
                    6.2 Mercury Bravo 3

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "The U.S. boating industry is reporting some of its highest sales in a decade."

                      "Sales of yachts ÔÇö boats 33 feet and larger ÔÇö rose 3.5 percent, reaching a seven-year high of 1,715 units in 2016."

                      I Just love statistics and the way you can make them sing.

                      Let me word this information in a way that might hit home with users.....

                      Your salaries have just hit the highest level in over 10 years - now you are making 3% more than in 2006 and your costs have risen over 20%.
                      Northport NY

                      Comment


                        #12
                        What that study or report doesn't really say is how many more boats they sold than previous years.

                        Telling us that they made more sales money doesn't mean they are selling more boats. It is probably just a case of the prices have gone up.
                        1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
                        twin 454's
                        MV Mar-Y-Sol
                        1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
                        Twin chevy 350's inboard
                        Ben- Jamin
                        spokane Washington

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Go back a decade or more and people were mortgaging their equity to spend more ... but then the housing market collapsed and banks stopped lending to people who could not afford to pay the loan back.
                          2003 Bayliner 245
                          2007 Sedona F21

                          Comment


                            #14
                            "Douggy" post=810434 wrote:
                            Go back a decade or more and people were mortgaging their equity to spend more ... but then the housing market collapsed and banks stopped lending to people who could not afford to pay the loan back.
                            This post is a classic case why i took great pains to say that the current industry struggles are not the result of one, two, or even three causes.

                            It may be a contributing factor, but you're wrong if you think it's the sole reason.
                            Matt Train
                            BOC Site Team
                            Chicagoland, IL

                            Comment


                              #15
                              There is no argument that the "cabin cruiser" industry is all but nothing since the 2007-2008 time frame.

                              The larger boats like the large Bayliner/meridians was also hit very hard.

                              All this happened right at the same time as the financial collapse.

                              The question is why then. Why not a year earlier, or later?

                              My first thought is to agree with the posts above regarding shrinking of disposable income, etc... but I have a hard time figuring out why the timing seems to be the exact time as the financial collapse.

                              The only thing that makes any sense to me is that the 2007-2008 period resulted in allot of jobs going away. Jobs not only in the financial sector, jobs in the construction sector as well.

                              I'm thinking that those jobs never came back. Yes probably everyone that lost their job has a new one, but the new jobs do not appear to pay as well as the ones that were lost.

                              KEVIN SANDERS
                              4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                              www.transferswitch4less.com

                              Whats the weather like on our boat
                              https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddab...59665f4e4/wide


                              Where are we right now? https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

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