What ever happend to OMC ?-gctid810176

[vonstallin]

I tried to google that topic, but growing up in the 70s and 80s it seemed like OMC dominated when it came to boats. My dads boat was an OMC and I use to see wellcrafts with them also growing up.

I just started looking at boats again about 10 years ago (and recently just picking up one of my own) and it seems to be a Mercruiser world. I actually do not see any inboard engines other than Mercruiser.

What percentage of the market do you think Mercruiser owns now? Are all there engines based off the Chevy blocks?

Is Volvo the same company that make the cars? I noticed all there engines are chevy blocks also. Do they still make boat engines?

[Download_Complete]

"vonstallin" post=810176 wrote:
I tried to google that topic, but growing up in the 70s and 80s it seemed like OMC dominated when it came to boats. My dads boat was an OMC and I use to see wellcrafts with them also growing up.

I just started looking at boats again about 10 years ago (and recently just picking up one of my own) and it seems to be a Mercruiser world. I actually do not see any inboard engines other than Mercruiser.

What percentage of the market do you think Mercruiser owns now? Are all there engines based off the Chevy blocks?

Is Volvo the same company that make the cars? I noticed all there engines are chevy blocks also. Do they still make boat engines?

You ask a lot of questions, but here we go: OMC dominated into the early 1980s. Merc was second, and played fairly competetive with Volvo Penta. Around this time OMC realized their stringer drives were obsolete, so they bet the farm on the OMC Cobra, which was designed to compete with the Mercruiser Alpha One. They were partially successful, but the effort swamped OMC when their outboard lines also began faltering (this was around the time small boats moved almost entirely into stern drives along with more stringent 2 cycle emissions concerns).

Meanwhile the Volvo AQ series (that we here on the BOC all know and love) was also reaching the end of the line and was due for a redesign. Rather than totally retool, they bought OMC (by now, bankrupt)'s stern drive assets and used that to redesign the AQ series into the SX/DPS drives of 1995. OMC's outboard line was sold to BRP, who killed Johnson outboards and invested in Evinrude.

Mercruiser continued on their trajectory to market dominance. That dominance is highly geography dependent - boats in the midwest are usually Merc boats if the manufacturer offered a choice. The coasts (especially the NW) seem to prefer Volvo. I would say the market split seems to be 65% Merc, the remainder Volvo...again, highly geographically dependent.

Engines: Ford was marinizing their V8 engines for OMC until the Volvo takeover. In the late 1990s, this program ceased. From that point on it was all GM, all the time until about 4 years ago. Around this time, GM discontinued their legacy truck engines (the 4.3/5.0/5.7s that we all know and love). This forced Merc and Volvo to make decisions/investments in the engines. Merc made a decision to begin designing and building their own engines again. THe current new stern drive products are three blocks: the 4.5L V6, the 6.2L V8, and the 8.2L V8, and they are (supposedly) all-Merc designed. Volvo Penta decided to align with GM Powertrain and adopt the new aluminum engines GM had that are based on the LS designs - their top V8 is a 5.3L LS series.

Right now, outboards are making a serious comeback, and are starting to be seen even on boats that traditionally ran stern drives, like Regal's new OBX express cruiser. Doing this opens up the cabin of the boat (especially the aft cabin) resulting in a whole new idea of what express cruisers can be.

[desuch]

Crowley marine .com in Denver Colarado has them, I have one purchased from them on my 2556 ,only have about 50 hours on it so far it's good

[Pcpete]

Mercury installations in Bayliner in Sea Ray as well as a few other brand became the standard as Brunswick, a company I hold in low esteem, steadily bought up boatbuilders. They already owned Mercury Marine and somehow have not killed that brand, but when it comes to hull manufacturers, the list they have destroyed is long and for a long time.

[Download_Complete]

"Pcpete" post=810196 wrote:
Mercury installations in Bayliner in Sea Ray as well as a few other brand became the standard as Brunswick, a company I hold in low esteem, steadily bought up boatbuilders. They already owned Mercury Marine and somehow have not killed that brand, but when it comes to hull manufacturers, the list they have destroyed is long and for a long time.

You're doing Brunswick a disservice, here. You aren't taking into account the huge market contraction in 2008, which took about 1/4 of the marine market and wiped it out. Maybe more. Suddenly where there were enough buyers to sustain Bayliner, Maxum, AND Sea Ray, there are now only enough for Bayliner and Sea Ray.

Business kills brands. Good businesses react to the market.

What is more telling is how the law of strong brands survive....and Bayliner is one of those brands.

[vonstallin]

"Download_Complete" post=810178 wrote:

"vonstallin" post=810176 wrote:
I tried to google that topic, but growing up in the 70s and 80s it seemed like OMC dominated when it came to boats. My dads boat was an OMC and I use to see wellcrafts with them also growing up.

I just started looking at boats again about 10 years ago (and recently just picking up one of my own) and it seems to be a Mercruiser world. I actually do not see any inboard engines other than Mercruiser.

What percentage of the market do you think Mercruiser owns now? Are all there engines based off the Chevy blocks?

Is Volvo the same company that make the cars? I noticed all there engines are chevy blocks also. Do they still make boat engines?

You ask a lot of questions, but here we go: OMC dominated into the early 1980s. Merc was second, and played fairly competetive with Volvo Penta. Around this time OMC realized their stringer drives were obsolete, so they bet the farm on the OMC Cobra, which was designed to compete with the Mercruiser Alpha One. They were partially successful, but the effort swamped OMC when their outboard lines also began faltering (this was around the time small boats moved almost entirely into stern drives along with more stringent 2 cycle emissions concerns).

Meanwhile the Volvo AQ series (that we here on the BOC all know and love) was also reaching the end of the line and was due for a redesign. Rather than totally retool, they bought OMC (by now, bankrupt)'s stern drive assets and used that to redesign the AQ series into the SX/DPS drives of 1995. OMC's outboard line was sold to BRP, who killed Johnson outboards and invested in Evinrude.

Mercruiser continued on their trajectory to market dominance. That dominance is highly geography dependent - boats in the midwest are usually Merc boats if the manufacturer offered a choice. The coasts (especially the NW) seem to prefer Volvo. I would say the market split seems to be 65% Merc, the remainder Volvo...again, highly geographically dependent.

Engines: Ford was marinizing their V8 engines for OMC until the Volvo takeover. In the late 1990s, this program ceased. From that point on it was all GM, all the time until about 4 years ago. Around this time, GM discontinued their legacy truck engines (the 4.3/5.0/5.7s that we all know and love). This forced Merc and Volvo to make decisions/investments in the engines. Merc made a decision to begin designing and building their own engines again. THe current new stern drive products are three blocks: the 4.5L V6, the 6.2L V8, and the 8.2L V8, and they are (supposedly) all-Merc designed. Volvo Penta decided to align with GM Powertrain and adopt the new aluminum engines GM had that are based on the LS designs - their top V8 is a 5.3L LS series.

Right now, outboards are making a serious comeback, and are starting to be seen even on boats that traditionally ran stern drives, like Regal's new OBX express cruiser. Doing this opens up the cabin of the boat (especially the aft cabin) resulting in a whole new idea of what express cruisers can be.

WOW, talk about a through and detailed history.

I have a better understanding of the market now, and more things make sense. I was originally looking at the Regal 2150 LSC for a few years...1998-2003 range. Most if not all had Volvo Penta engines.

This is some real good history. It should have a History channel special LOL.

For me the 5.0 Mercsuiser on my boat and the alpha 1 outdrive is one of the most standard combo ive seen. It seems crazy that I can goto Wal Mart and get Quick SIlver stuff (oil, filters, etc) for my boat.

How are the new Mercruiser designed engines? They really made a huge gap in displacement. 4.5 I would think is the bread and butter engine that will see the most applications under 25ft.

Thanks so much. I will be looking at this page to see all additional information.

[Pcpete]

Mark, I'm afraid my feelings go much further back. Brands like Trojan and Owens were purchased by Brunswick in the sixties and seventies and, largely because they didn't or weren't allowed to make the move to Fiberglas, they were gone. That was management decades ago. Look at their purchase of Bayliner, yes, the brand survives with many of the currently built boats sold in the US being built elsewhere. The Arlington, WA factory was shut down rather quickly after the purchase and there was a move to "upscale" the Motoryachts. This took the line from good entry level pricing to "for a few thousand more I can have a xxxxx" effectively leaving the market sector. The buyers of Tollycraft Corp. did the same thing. The "luxury tax" laws were another force that had to be overcome.

I understand the challenges of a company competing with itself at close levels. Buick, Pontiac and Olds are/were prime examples. I also understand that the limited market for new vessels is dynamic and needs to be carefully addressed. At the end of the day my feelings are, rightly or wrongly in the eyes of others, my own stupid opinion.

[Download_Complete]

"Pcpete" post=810228 wrote:
Mark, I'm afraid my feelings go much further back. Brands like Trojan and Owens were purchased by Brunswick in the sixties and seventies and, largely because they didn't or weren't allowed to make the move to Fiberglas, they were gone. That was management decades ago. Look at their purchase of Bayliner, yes, the brand survives with many of the currently built boats sold in the US being built elsewhere. The Arlington, WA factory was shut down rather quickly after the purchase and there was a move to "upscale" the Motoryachts. This took the line from good entry level pricing to "for a few thousand more I can have a xxxxx" effectively leaving the market sector. The buyers of Tollycraft Corp. did the same thing. The "luxury tax" laws were another force that had to be overcome.

I understand the challenges of a company competing with itself at close levels. Buick, Pontiac and Olds are/were prime examples. I also understand that the limited market for new vessels is dynamic and needs to be carefully addressed. At the end of the day my feelings are, rightly or wrongly in the eyes of others, my own stupid opinion.

Hey, your opinion is worthy and that's why we have these discussions. So don't be hard on yourself there.

I guess my take on all the yachts is the market would have taken them out one way or the other. I don't see a lot of companies rushing to fill the cruiser and inexpensive yacht void. In 10 years or so when attrition takes more of the current inventory out, then maybe a need and a business case will align, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Regarding Trojan, they DID move to fiberglass. Owens did too, i think....but I am not sure about that. But hey, business is business. Now, those customers are likely buying Sea Ray, Regal, and Monterey.

The industry has not rebounded. The market is still operating on "new normal" sales numbers that are not quite what things where back in 2008, and we're going on the 10 year anniversary of that.

Plus, needs and tastes have changed. The vast majority of boats going out the door now have aluminum tubes and outboards. I know I have said this before, but I am Generation X. I don't know too many people my age and younger who want - or are able to afford - a larger yacht. Hell, some of them can't even afford a small 16 foot bowrider.

So while I agree that it's sad these brands are gone, like Oldsmobile, their times have come and gone, and there's too much competition to carve out a compelling reason to continue existing.

[vonstallin]

I noticed and talked to an owner of a boat sales dealer and she said what Ive seen. Cuddys under 25ft are few and far between. Most of my neighbors told me cuddys are a waist of space (I still love them). I was surprised to see Bayliner had no cuddys under 25ft anymore. Everything seems to go the way of bowriders.

[Critterracing]

"vonstallin" post=810224 wrote:

"Download_Complete" post=810178 wrote:

"vonstallin" post=810176 wrote:
I tried to google that topic, but growing up in the 70s and 80s it seemed like OMC dominated when it came to boats. My dads boat was an OMC and I use to see wellcrafts with them also growing up.

I just started looking at boats again about 10 years ago (and recently just picking up one of my own) and it seems to be a Mercruiser world. I actually do not see any inboard engines other than Mercruiser.

What percentage of the market do you think Mercruiser owns now? Are all there engines based off the Chevy blocks?

Is Volvo the same company that make the cars? I noticed all there engines are chevy blocks also. Do they still make boat engines?

You ask a lot of questions, but here we go: OMC dominated into the early 1980s. Merc was second, and played fairly competetive with Volvo Penta. Around this time OMC realized their stringer drives were obsolete, so they bet the farm on the OMC Cobra, which was designed to compete with the Mercruiser Alpha One. They were partially successful, but the effort swamped OMC when their outboard lines also began faltering (this was around the time small boats moved almost entirely into stern drives along with more stringent 2 cycle emissions concerns).

Meanwhile the Volvo AQ series (that we here on the BOC all know and love) was also reaching the end of the line and was due for a redesign. Rather than totally retool, they bought OMC (by now, bankrupt)'s stern drive assets and used that to redesign the AQ series into the SX/DPS drives of 1995. OMC's outboard line was sold to BRP, who killed Johnson outboards and invested in Evinrude.

Mercruiser continued on their trajectory to market dominance. That dominance is highly geography dependent - boats in the midwest are usually Merc boats if the manufacturer offered a choice. The coasts (especially the NW) seem to prefer Volvo. I would say the market split seems to be 65% Merc, the remainder Volvo...again, highly geographically dependent.

Engines: Ford was marinizing their V8 engines for OMC until the Volvo takeover. In the late 1990s, this program ceased. From that point on it was all GM, all the time until about 4 years ago. Around this time, GM discontinued their legacy truck engines (the 4.3/5.0/5.7s that we all know and love). This forced Merc and Volvo to make decisions/investments in the engines. Merc made a decision to begin designing and building their own engines again. THe current new stern drive products are three blocks: the 4.5L V6, the 6.2L V8, and the 8.2L V8, and they are (supposedly) all-Merc designed. Volvo Penta decided to align with GM Powertrain and adopt the new aluminum engines GM had that are based on the LS designs - their top V8 is a 5.3L LS series.

Right now, outboards are making a serious comeback, and are starting to be seen even on boats that traditionally ran stern drives, like Regal's new OBX express cruiser. Doing this opens up the cabin of the boat (especially the aft cabin) resulting in a whole new idea of what express cruisers can be.

WOW, talk about a through and detailed history.

I have a better understanding of the market now, and more things make sense. I was originally looking at the Regal 2150 LSC for a few years...1998-2003 range. Most if not all had Volvo Penta engines.

This is some real good history. It should have a History channel special LOL.

For me the 5.0 Mercsuiser on my boat and the alpha 1 outdrive is one of the most standard combo ive seen. It seems crazy that I can goto Wal Mart and get Quick SIlver stuff (oil, filters, etc) for my boat.

How are the new Mercruiser designed engines? They really made a huge gap in displacement. 4.5 I would think is the bread and butter engine that will see the most applications under 25ft.

Thanks so much. I will be looking at this page to see all additional information.

i have the 4.5l 250hp version. i have under 30 hours and im having a failure of the power steering pump or the idle pulley for the belt. on cold start up i have a major bearing screeching noise that slowing goes aways after a few seconds. not to happy having to bring it in for warranty work already.

[Four_Pyrates]

Matt: "The industry has not rebounded. The market is still operating on "new normal" sales numbers that are not quite what things where back in 2008, and we're going on the 10 year anniversary of that."

I don't see the recovery ever coming back. The destruction of the middle class, unbelievable regulations both at manufacture and at the marina, and the financial system has never been the same since Spencer Bachus, former Alabama congressman, allowed the banks to write the federal banking bill around 2004. That was when your credit costs skyrocketed. Add to that the Bush depression that really started in the 2nd quarter of 2007 and boats are just a fantasy for most.

I go to several boat shows a year and they get smaller and smaller each time. The offerings are rarely anything new other than some electronic gizmos. Disposable income is gone in many cases and just the cost of operation and insurance keeps many saving for college instead of a week on the cruiser. I can show you boats that haven't moved in at least 5 years. People just walked away. These are half a million dollar rides and the banks can't sell them to anyone. I guess that is justice the way some see it, but those beautiful yachts just sit. Inside the storage warehouse are another 200 day boats 17-25 feet just abandoned. That is just in one marina down here. For some reason, the banks won't deal much on them like it is January 2008 again.

If you have a boat now, enjoy it while you can. There are many, many, many people in many positions that would eliminate boating just like they are killing red snapper fishing in the Gulf of Mexico. The new rule is 2 fish per person per day....Length of season for private citizens? 2 days.

[FISHIN00]

Since BRP purchased OMC the O/B side is doing quite well. The Ficht motors killed the brand, along with issues on some VRO motors. The Gen 1 & 2 E-TEC motors are taking a large share of the O/B market away from Merc and Yamaha. Bass and Walleye fisherman are having no problem dropping $50,60 and even 70K + on new rigs. Brunswick is fortunate to own 2 of the top 4 aluminum boats, Lund and Crestliner, which are made in the same factory in Mn. Both have OUTSTANDING warranties and customer support and will build boats without Mercury motors for customers.

[Pcpete]

I agree that the new yacht market is reallllllllyyyyyyyy sssssllllloooooowwww. The boomers (I was born in 1948) are into retirement and, many of us are telling the generation X'ers, I have four, to save for retirement right after food and shelter. My kids, all in their 30's are doing well, but the biggest obstacle for them and boating is time. They will get there, I hope.

[Four_Pyrates]

"Pcpete" post=810274 wrote:
many of us are telling the generation X'ers, I have four, to save for retirement right after food and shelter. My kids, all in their 30's are doing well, but the biggest obstacle for them and boating is time. They will get there, I hope.

Mine daughter is a sophomore in college and I tell her the same thing....

[Chief_Alen]

http://www.glmmarine.com/30yearsomc.html

http://hhscott.com/evinrude/omc_stringer.htm