Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Battery operation-gctid390778

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 2850Bounty
    replied
    Tank1023, Mike's number 1 through 4 are excellent.

    I think that number 5 could use some clarity.
    • When the "engine" is not running, and whether or not S/P is available, we should be using the HLBB (house load battery bank).
    • The SLBB (start load battery bank) should be held in "reserve", therefor not drained by any other loads.




    As for battery types, IMO there is no such thing as a true Dual Purpose Marine Battery.

    They are either a Cranking Battery (multiple thin plates), or they are a Deep Cycle Battery (heavy and fewer plates).

    This represents a Cranking Battery construction.



    As a wet cell battery is discharged, the sulfuric acid is absorbed by the plates, and less acid is held in solution (electrolyte).

    As we charge a wet cell battery, the sulfuric acid is pushed from the plates, and back into solution.

    The number of cycles, and the acid that is abosorbed and allowed to remain absorbed, is what shortens battery life.

    Perhaps a rule #6 could read: NEVER leave our batteries in a SOD for any length of time!

    Isolators are old school technology by today's standards.

    Today we have the ACR (auto charge relay) and VSR (voltage sensing relay) that perform much more efficiently.

    Tank1023, think of your MBSS as though it's nothing more than a "selector" switch. (see image)

    It lets us "select" which battery bank the entire boat's 12 vdc system (minus power trim pump on many) will be powered FROM, and which battery bank the engine alternator charges TO.

    See Mike's rule #3.

    The O/B Charger charging is a tad bit different. The MBSS position (minus ALL/BOTH) will NOT affect the charge!

    IOW, it makes no difference where the MBSS is set (again, minus ALL/BOTH) during charging.

    (see image)

    I've lost track of who suggested the bilge pump float switch be connected to a Cranking Bank.

    Our bilge pump float switch should be powered by our largest battery bank....... not a Cranking Bank.

    You want simple? Here's simple!



    Lastly, if being a "switchmaster" is not in the cards for any of us, Blue Sea products has a line of Auto-Combing systems that will make battery management simple and goof proof.

    .

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    CRAP - I have to tan my own hide and fess up to a mistake. I gave my rules - but I keep my boat in dry storage with shorepower and not in the water. Rule #5 is wrong for simple rules.

    *updated simplified rules**

    1. NEVER set or use the OFF position unless you are leaving the boat for an extended period and dont need 12V power for anything.

    2. NEVER switch batteries by going thru the OFF position - NEVER.

    3. NEVER leave the battery switch on "BOTH" - you ALWAYS switch batteries thru BOTH, but NEVER leave it there.

    (there is 1 exception to this rule - in an emergency and neither battery can start the boat, then use BOTH to get it started - then switch back to the battery you want to recharge).

    4. When possible, ALWAYS start the boat with the starting battery.

    5. When the boat is not running and you want 12V power available, then switch to the house battery.

    The reason for this change: Keep the starting battery at full power, even if you are on shorepower. Important because the bilge pumps are connected to the starting battery.

    Sorry for spreading bad advice - and thanks for not kicking my butt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    tank1023 wrote:
    I did read it wrong. Thanks for clearing this up. I'm new to the cruiser world, only had OB boats before. Also new to the marina life, just rented a slip for a year.
    Cool. I am currently living in fear that a switchmaster is gonna tan my hide.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    PugetMike wrote:
    Please re-read #5.
    I did read it wrong. Thanks for clearing this up. I'm new to the cruiser world, only had OB boats before. Also new to the marina life, just rented a slip for a year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    I should add another point.

    If you are not regularly on shorepower, you will need to recharge your house battery while underway.

    This is done by following rule #4, and once the boat is running use rule #3 to switch to the house battery till it is recharged or you run afoul of the other rules.

    I would AVOID doing this and install a battery isolator to keep the house battery recharged and not have to fool with the switches - we are approaching switchmatster territory doing this.

    It kinda pisses me off that boats dont come from the factory with battery isolators.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    tank1023 wrote:
    Question to #5.. I'm anchored Ina cove and want to listen to the radio and my refridg is on. I should be on the starting battery and not the house?
    Please re-read #5.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    PugetMike wrote:
    The confusion comes from excess verbosity!

    Simplified:

    1. NEVER set or use the OFF position unless you are leaving the boat for an extended period and dont need 12V power for anything.

    2. NEVER switch batteries by going thru the OFF position - NEVER.

    3. NEVER leave the battery switch on "BOTH" - you ALWAYS switch batteries thru BOTH, but NEVER leave it there.

    (there is 1 exception to this rule - in an emergency and neither battery can start the boat, then use BOTH to get it started - then switch back to the battery you want to recharge).

    4. When possible, ALWAYS start the boat with the starting battery.

    5. When the boat is not running, AND you are not on shorepower - only then switch to the house battery - otherwise ALWAYS leave it on the starting battery.

    ( there is 1 exception to this - the starting battery is dead - then switch to the house battery to start ).

    To avoid a huge discussion - these are SIMPLIFIED, easy to follow rules - it is not intended for switchmasters.

    The assumption here is that both batteries are marine starting/deep cycle - which is what most people should have in their boats.
    ^^ thx thx, thats all I needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    PugetMike wrote:
    The confusion comes from excess verbosity!

    Simplified:

    1. NEVER set or use the OFF position unless you are leaving the boat for an extended period and dont need 12V power for anything.

    2. NEVER switch batteries by going thru the OFF position - NEVER.

    3. NEVER leave the battery switch on "BOTH" - you ALWAYS switch batteries thru BOTH, but NEVER leave it there.

    (there is 1 exception to this rule - in an emergency and neither battery can start the boat, then use BOTH to get it started - then switch back to the battery you want to recharge).

    4. When possible, ALWAYS start the boat with the starting battery.

    5. When the boat is not running, AND you are not on shorepower - only then switch to the house battery - otherwise ALWAYS leave it on the starting battery.

    ( there is 1 exception to this - the starting battery is dead - then switch to the house battery to start ).

    To avoid a huge discussion - these are SIMPLIFIED, easy to follow rules - it is not intended for switchmasters.

    The assumption here is that both batteries are marine starting/deep cycle - which is what most people should have in their boats.
    Question to #5.. I'm anchored Ina cove and want to listen to the radio and my refridg is on. I should be on the starting battery and not the house?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    The confusion comes from excess verbosity!

    Simplified:

    1. NEVER set or use the OFF position unless you are leaving the boat for an extended period and dont need 12V power for anything.

    2. NEVER switch batteries by going thru the OFF position - NEVER.

    3. NEVER leave the battery switch on "BOTH" - you ALWAYS switch batteries thru BOTH, but NEVER leave it there.

    (there is 1 exception to this rule - in an emergency and neither battery can start the boat, then use BOTH to get it started - then switch back to the battery you want to recharge).

    4. When possible, ALWAYS start the boat with the starting battery.

    5. When the boat is not running, AND you are not on shorepower - only then switch to the house battery - otherwise ALWAYS leave it on the starting battery.

    ( there is 1 exception to this - the starting battery is dead - then switch to the house battery to start ).

    To avoid a huge discussion - these are SIMPLIFIED, easy to follow rules - it is not intended for switchmasters.

    The assumption here is that both batteries are marine starting/deep cycle - which is what most people should have in their boats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    tleavit wrote:
    Oddly his thread confuses me. When I bought my 08 245 I was told to turn my batterys to "off" when I dock and hook up shore power and the chargers turned on. Reading this thread makes me think that this is wrong? I've never had any problems up to this point doing this.
    If I turn my batteries to off I can't run anything except my 120 outlet.

    I have to be honest, I'm still confused but I'm going to do the following; with shore power in, I will leave my battery on 2. When I go to start my boat I'll switch to 1. While on the water I can switch back to 2, to charge the battery.

    I think this is what I got out of the post.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    Oddly his thread confuses me. When I bought my 08 245 I was told to turn my batterys to "off" when I dock and hook up shore power and the chargers turned on. Reading this thread makes me think that this is wrong? I've never had any problems up to this point doing this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    2850Bounty wrote:
    Ralph, for a conventional system using an MBSS, I'd say that would be correct, but with one exception. You DO NOT need to have your MBSS set to any battery bank.

    With a charger that is connected correctly, it should not matter which bank the MBSS is selecting, or where it is set......., other than avoiding ALL/BOTH while charging.

    When underway, and using the engine alternator, now it does matter which bank is selected, since the source is coming from another direction.

    ************************

    Ralph, this is not aimed at you, but is rather a general statement.

    When you look at our typical battery bank arrangements, there is absolutely no reason to make any direct battery connections other than battery cables themselves.

    We have a perfect loaction for O/B Charger leads right at the rear of our MBSS terminals #1 and #2.

    This is schematically identical to a direct battery connection, but avoids not only the "Rat's Nest" potential, but avoids any small terminal corrosion, and avoids any confusion during R&R of batteries.

    IOW, ideally we'll see only Pos and Neg main battery cable at our batteries.

    (a few exceptions may be leads for a battery monitoring system, etc.)

    .
    tthanks Rick, this goes along with what I've always been told. And yes I suppose I knew that the charger would charge batteries even with the switch set to off, although I seldom make use of the off position

    Leave a comment:


  • 2850Bounty
    replied
    nwboater62 wrote:
    Can any damage be done be moving the selector switch while under way?

    Starting on position one and switching to battery two?
    NO.... these are "Make-Before-Break" contacts, and have been for years.

    Switching TO or THROUGH OFF would be an issue, regarding alternator field circuits.

    .

    Leave a comment:


  • nwboater62
    replied
    Can any damage be done be moving the selector switch while under way?

    Starting on position one and switching to battery two?

    Leave a comment:


  • 2850Bounty
    replied
    Prairie Puffin wrote:
    Rick, I without a second thought untill this thread I just assumed the charger leads to the switch were controlled by the switch????

    Of course there not, its a direct connections to each bank. Thanks for clearing that up. ops
    It can be confusing since the two sources (alternator -vs- O/B Charger) come from entirely different directions.

    IOW, we get to "select" the direction of the alternator charge, but the O/B Charger is fixed.

    Fact is..... it would be impossible to arrange a 2 bank O/B Charger so that it could use a single MBSS for charge direction in a 2 battery bank scenario, and yet keep the two charge leads isolated from one another.

    For some people, the charger leads being directly connected to each battery bank is easier to understand, but it is certainly not what I'd recommend doing. :thumb

    Perhaps you can help me keep that light bulb shinning, OK?


    Leave a comment:

Working...
X