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    #31
    Pugetsoundog wrote:
    I'll bet the trailer brake system is shot. .... And the master cylinder... pull that cap and have a look. Probably empty. If any rust at all... replace it....

    Ken

    Pugetsoundog (woof)
    Ding ding ding - winner! I purchased a replacement master cylinder. This gave me confidence to really go at that reservoir cap. I put a 5/8 socket inside the plastic and hollow cap, and used vice grips to wrestle it loose. It looks like there has been no fluid in that reservoir since 1963.

    I'm going to flush the brake lines next, bleed the lines, then take a look at the brake shoes and mechanism.

    I hope to get the brakes working to some effect

    To think, no brakes on such a heavy trailer! Looking back, it was really dangerous, the driving I did with that trailer. Now, I am ultra paranoid and drive it really slow through town. I hope to get the brakes working in some capacity. I need to tow it from storage to my house to work on it!

    Attached files http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]

    Comment


      #32
      just a word of warning about using a weight distributing hitch in conjunction with surge brakes. If the hitch is not set up absolutely correctly with the chains on the torsion bars perfectly vertical, they will be constantly either applying the trailer brakes by pulling the surge coupler into compression OR they will be doing the opposite and restricting or even stopping the surge coupler from moving and effectively locking out the trailer brakes from ever coming on. In any case, even with these chains aligned absolutely vertical they will restrict movement of the coupler which will therefore slow down the application of the trailer brakes. There is at least one brand/model of weight distributing hitch out there that is installed and used without the snap up chains and if you go to an equalizing hitch assembly that would be the correct one to use. BTW I agree that the towing capacity you are quoting for your pickup is probably the rating when using a weight distributing hitch assembly, or fifth wheel hitch and most likely the static towing capacity would be closer to 6000 pounds. Check the rating stamp on the hitch receiver on your truck and you should find two different ratings on it - one for towing with the weight distributing hitch and one for using just a platform hitch like you are currently using.

      Comment


        #33
        If that trailer has two 3500 lb axles and only brakes on 1 axle, that's just a pair of 10" brakes for all that weight. It would be OK for a 3500 lb boat but not for that load. First make sure the system you have is working, and then I would definitely add brakes to the second axle. Drum brakes can be made to work well contrary to what you often read, they need a bit more maintenance than discs. Discs need higher line pressures to work well but in your case you have enough weight for that not to be an issue. If you have drums and want to change to disc you have to remove the check valve in the master cylinder and add a back up solenoid. Then add 4 disc brake assemblies. To stick with drums is cheaper, adding a pair of drums will only cost about 150 for a pair of 10" backing plates and about 140 for a pair of drums. To make drums last longer and work better, when they are new and you are installing them, put a bit of synthetic brake grease under the boot for the wheel cylinder, this prevents the piston from seizing up, Then seal the rubber boot all the way around with high temp RTV. Next put OMC/Bombardier triple guard grease on the pivot points for the brake shoes. Make sure to pack the threads of the adjuster with the same grease. It is a heavy duty grease that holds up even in salt water. You use a flush system but you have to put grease under the boot and grease the adjuster, that's what the flush systems can't reach and causes most problems with drum brakes in salt water. I have seen disc brakes have problems in salt here too. The salt crystals get in between the seal and the caliper piston unless you pack that area with brake grease.
        88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
        98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
        07 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

        Long Island Sound Region

        Comment


          #34
          Thanks for the suggestions. First, I want to get the OEM brakes working. Thats first. Today I found that the rusty brake line leaks where it screws into the master cylinder, so I think I will need to replace all the lines.

          I haven't pulled the wheel or the drum yet. I suppose that that will all need replacing too.

          Comment


            #35
            Oops, I think I need to put the orifice adapter between the master cylinder and the brake line. That might be why it leaks.

            [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/695950=28864-tn_orifice-2_1.jpg[/img]

            Comment


              #36
              To be honest, if you can swing it get a set of disk brakes and a second axle add-on kit. Don't get steel tubing for the brake lines again. The new plastic ones are a lot more durable unless you go with expensive stainless steel.

              I got my UFP breaks (they are great, just not as well known as Kodiak or Dico) for a pretty good price at http://www.pacifictrailers.com/ufp-d...42-db35-parts/ . If you convert to disks you have to punch a hole into the coupler and need a reverse solenoid.

              Once you know disk brakes you will never go back! Besides a lot better braking they don't need any adjustment. Drum brakes are only well aligned at the moment you adjust them. Two miles down the road they are off again.

              With that much load you need all the brakes you can get. Hopefully you never need them but if you do the disks are worth every penny. All my trailers get disk brakes as soon as I own them, only exception: less than ~800lbs GVWR. I wish they would make trailer brakes mandatory like in some other parts of the world......

              Comment


                #37
                When I first got my boat I pulled it with a '99 SUburban 1/2 ton. Had the same thing happen to me- sliding through an intersection- not even really going that fast. I used to work for the railiroad (Burlington Northern- real short time!) and it reminded me of rolling cars and connecting trains. They may only move at 5mph but you can't stop them as the mass is so great.

                I immediately tore down and rebuilt my 4 electrical brakes on the trailer and bought a 3/4 ton with 1 ton running gear Chevy pickup. It was worth it. I have towed my boat all over and never worry about the trailer stopping or being pushed around by my boat. I would really recommend looking at options even if you just get a beater old truck for hauling your boat. Oh, BTW my boat weighed in at 6800 on the lift but you have to add in at least 2000 for the beast of a trailer that came with it!

                Jeff

                Comment


                  #38
                  Check my thinking on this: I've got two problems: 1) Inadequate stopping power and 2) Under loaded front wheels / Overloaded rear wheels. #1 Can be addressed by trailer brakes, and in some regards by improved rear braking on the truck. #2 Could be addressed by a weight-distributing hitch (or a 5th wheel, which would be ideal). It would also help to have load-leveling springs or airshocks.

                  It seems the most benefit would be gained by improving the trailer braking and re-distributing the load. Buying a larger truck won't help too much in that regard, except for better rear braking. A dual wheel setup would help, buy only by providing more braking and traction at the rear axle - still not as important as trailer brakes.

                  One thought I've had is the shortcoming of the surge brakes is they do not provide braking when backing down the ramp. I wonder how much risk this presents - what if the ramp was extra steep and slippery that day. It is mostly my rear truck tires providing the stopping power. In this regard, electric disk brakes [edit: hydraulic disk brakes with an electric hydraulic activator (http://www.crofttrailer.com/carlisle...i/#page=page-1)] seems like they would provide the best braking. I wonder if that would be a possibility if I add a flushing system.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Electric actuated, hydraulic operated brake systems are the best. They work when you want and need them, not when gravity or forward motion dictates. My trailer has this system, it works great. It also has stainless/cadmium disk brakes, they don't really need flush attachments, because they're open and easy to flush with a hose and nozzle.
                    Jeff & Tara (And Ginger too)
                    Lake Havasu City, AZ
                    |
                    Current: 2008 Playcraft 2400 MCM 350 Mag B3
                    2000 Bayliner 3388 Cummins 4bta 250s (SOLD 2020)
                    2000 Bayliner 2858 MCM 7.4 MPI B3 (SOLD 2018)
                    2007 Bayliner 305 MCM twin 350 Mag B3s (SOLD 2012)
                    2008 Bayliner 289 MCM 350 Mag Sea Core B3 (SOLD 2009)
                    And 12 others...
                    In memory of Shadow, the best boat dog ever. Rest in peace, girl. 7-2-10

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Seriously, you need to take a closer look at that trailer and decide if it is worth putting money into it. If you are putting it in salt water, it needs to be galvinized. The trailer actually looks a little long to me. Are those original tires? Just brakes could cost you a boat unit. Pull an axle down now to see what you have. A complete kit will probably be cheaper than piecing it out. You may be money ahead in the long run just buying a better trailer.

                      Ken

                      Pugetsoundog (woof)

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I'm having a similar problem. The trailer brakes are not adequate

                        My truck has good 4 wheel antilock disc brakes and the drums on one axle of the two axle trailer are in good condition.

                        We must consider that the boat and trailer weigh much more than the truck itself even at the truck's loaded capicity. With that in mind we are asking a single axle drum brake to stop all that weight. It's not realistic, especially in a emergancy situation.

                        I'm not and engineer but a little common sence would tell me there should be 4 disc brakes stopping a 7-9000LB trailer even that might not be adequate in a emergancy situation. When I asked a rep at Pacific Trailer about the situation. He replied "The boat dealers order the trailers to minimum specifications to lower the package price on the showroom floor." "You should have 4 wheel disc brakes on it"
                        Carl
                        2452

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Brian Yeates wrote:
                          just a word of warning about using a weight distributing hitch in conjunction with surge brakes. If the hitch is not set up absolutely correctly with the chains on the torsion bars perfectly vertical, they will be constantly either applying the trailer brakes by pulling the surge coupler into compression OR they will be doing the opposite and restricting or even stopping the surge coupler from moving and effectively locking out the trailer brakes from ever coming on. In any case, even with these chains aligned absolutely vertical they will restrict movement of the coupler which will therefore slow down the application of the trailer brakes. There is at least one brand/model of weight distributing hitch out there that is installed and used without the snap up chains and if you go to an equalizing hitch assembly that would be the correct one to use. BTW I agree that the towing capacity you are quoting for your pickup is probably the rating when using a weight distributing hitch assembly, or fifth wheel hitch and most likely the static towing capacity would be closer to 6000 pounds. Check the rating stamp on the hitch receiver on your truck and you should find two different ratings on it - one for towing with the weight distributing hitch and one for using just a platform hitch like you are currently using.
                          The FAQ on the LoadRite Trailer site concurs:

                          "The basic premise with a weight-distributing hitch is to transfer load between the frame of the tow vehicle and the towed unit. In effect, it can serve to lock the two frames together. The wishbone design of a boat trailer, in conjunction with the use of a load distributing hitch, places a disproportionate amount of stress on the tongue member of the boat trailer frame. The tongue, already the most highly stressed boat trailer frame member, may then be required to perform above its design parameters."

                          And you are right about the tow ratings for a load carrying hitch. So what the f&*! do I use to tow this thing?

                          Comment


                            #43
                            BLCarl wrote:
                            I'm not and engineer but a little common sence would tell me there should be 4 disc brakes stopping a 7-9000LB trailer ... When I asked a rep at Pacific Trailer about the situation. He replied "The boat dealers order the trailers to minimum specifications to lower the package price on the showroom floor." "You should have 4 wheel disc brakes on it"
                            The http://"http://loadrite.com/faq.php#...adRite trailer website says the same

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Pugetsoundog wrote:
                              Seriously, you need to take a closer look at that trailer and decide if it is worth putting money into it. If you are putting it in salt water, it needs to be galvinized. The trailer actually looks a little long to me. Are those original tires? Just brakes could cost you a boat unit. Pull an axle down now to see what you have. A complete kit will probably be cheaper than piecing it out. You may be money ahead in the long run just buying a better trailer.

                              Ken

                              Pugetsoundog (woof)
                              It is a little long. It was used before for a Bayliner 28 ft. with 9 ft. beam. They could be the original tires. Also, I need a ladder to get up to the boat, I wish I had a "low rider" trailer. Also, it is unweildy to tow this thing around to home and to the water each time I want to use it. I'm starting to think it is too much to manage.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Boy Dave, I couldn't agree more with that.

                                I recall seeing my first weight distributing hitch back in the 60's, if memory serves me.

                                At the time, I thought it was pretty neat.

                                But then after giving it some thought, I determined that these were a band-aid fix for a much larger issue.

                                I feel the same way today.

                                If the tow rig is not adequate for the tow, nor the trailer suspension adjusted correctly for tonque weight, nor brakes adequate........, then we just don't risk it.
                                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

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