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Interesting Portable Generator Story-gctid340243

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  • Garchar
    replied
    Probably are not normal week end boaters use to useing generators. Very sad story. Garchar

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  • dmcb
    replied
    Thank you for your post. It seems lessons to be learned from this tragedy are not restricted to running a generator in the wrong place.

    Words do mean something and when you fling poison words you never know who will be effected.

    Doug

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...rdale-men-keys

    "beachbum1" post=340951 wrote:
    Hindsight is 20/20.I love the way everyone insults the dead.Very classy,you should be ashamed of yourselves.You don't know what really happened other than two poor bastards bit the dust and wether it was thru carelesness or not have some respect.
    Thank you sir for this very wise remark. I'm sorry to wake up this sad topic, but I had to, because I still think my brother was not the dumb idiot that most people depict in this topic.

    This is why I want to post this comment on this 4th anniversary of my brother's death. But first, please forgive any mistake in my English, it's my second language. I live in Quebec City, Canada, and Benoit Paquet was a younger brother of mine. I first read this topic in the days following his death and I was so hurt by the many disrespectful comments about his death that I choose to keep silent. But now that all things have settled down, I want to shed some light on the circumstances of this event, because most of your comments were based on everything but no sound information.

    My brother Benoit was a former licensed diver and NAUI-certified diving instructor. He knew everything about gases harmful to the human body while diving, and moreover about noxious gases in general. He quit diving because of his health condition. Being born hemophiliac, he had contracted hepatitis C after numerous blood platelets transfusions and he could no more stand the efforts required by safe diving, e.g. saving the life of a panicking first-time diver, as he once did.

    So his latest idea at that time was to buy a boat and take people from Quebec to diving spots in the Key Largo area. He was a very skilled boater (and so do I) here in Quebec, particularly on the treacherous waters of the St. Lawrence River. I don't know if his project was legal according to US laws and regulations but it doesn't matter any more now. So he bought a nice 32-foot Wellcraft St. Tropez somewhere in Florida along with a suitable trailer, and being not very fluent in English he asked Boucher, a friend of his for many many years, to take care of all the legal paperwork regarding registration of the boat. Boucher, a Quebecois permanently living in Fort Lauderdale for many years, created a Floridian company on a fifty-fifty basis and registered the boat on this 50/50 basis. My bro was very upset when he learned that, since he was the only one to take money out of his pocket. By the way, I still wonder why all news said the boat belonged to Boucher.

    Boucher had a quite unstable temper and my bro, when he sometimes had to stay at his place in Fort Lauderdale, often had to endure his fits. When my bro realized he had been screwed by Boucher, he was deeply depressed and told me that if he wanted to leave Florida to come back to Quebec, he'd have to steal his own boat and would certainly be arrested at the border.

    Financially, my brother was in a dead end and this project was his last resort. But he was zero in marketing and made little efforts to promote his planned activity among the diving community in Quebec. Then sometime in December 2011, he blew an engine ( 454 ci = $$$) and had to pull the boat out for repair. Still a sharp boat but old engines. Then, a few days before Christmas 2011, he bought a gen, which he didn't need at all, being in a well-serviced marina. After Christmas, Boucher drove a borrowed pick-up from Fort Lauderdale to Key Largo to help my bro carry the boat to Boucher's place for repairs. My bro was a handyman, having built before a steel 55-footer on Bruce Roberts plans and safely installing two Cummins engines and two 200-gallon tanks aboard. He used to drive that boat on the St. Lawrence River and even safely found his way to his berth in the tight Tadoussac marina with radar on a very foggy day.

    On Tuesday Dec. 27, 2011, Boucher arrived at the marina to pick up my bro's boat. I've been told by a friend of Benoit that he "intended" to make "some repairs" on the boat before pulling it out of water and "would need" using the gen to do so. At that time he had moved the boat so that it would be ready to be picked up with the straddle carrier. So that evening, when my bro and Boucher were both aboard, my bro started the gen to power some tools and Boucher's computer, although there was an electrical outlet a few feet away from the boat I don't know what regulations are in force in US marinas, but I know that in my area no marina would allow operating a gen in the inner limits of the marina.

    Wednesday morning, the crew at the marina pulled out the boat and put it on the trailer in the yard, not knowing the two were still aboard and dead. Wednesday went by, then Thursday. By Friday morning, Dec. 30, the pick-up owner, who expected their return at Fort Lauderdale by Tuesday night or Wednesday, phoned at the marina to check what was wrong. At the marina, the trailer and the boat still hadn't moved from the yard and and the manager or an employee climbed aboard to check if anything might be wrong Then they called the police.

    Considering all this, I'm not 100% sure those deaths were in fact accidental. And I don't think my bro was so dumb. On the contrary, I've always considered he was clever and well informed, although often stubborn. I'll never know what really went through his mind at that time, but I know what he was capable of. In his last phone calls in December 2011, he seemed very upset and worried, if not distressed, by his personal situation. Am I right? Am I wrong? I'll never know, but nobody deserves the nasty comments most of you made about this case.

    Now I'll let you make your own opinion if you didn't have one, or hope maybe you'll reconsider it if you had one. After reading here so many mean remarks about my brother, I owed him this last comment. Wherever your soul may be, rest in peace and relief for ever, Brother.

    Happy New Year to all of you. I wish you health, wealth and happiness, including all of you who wrote so many disrespectful remarks over two dead bodies, although you knew only a fraction of the facts. In the future, when you don't know all the facts of a case, I hope you'll be open minded enough to leave room for doubt As a very few number of you did.

    Respectfully yours, Benoit's brother.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Something just doesn't add up - unless the batteries weren't connected? The CO detector would (ok, should, unless tampered with) always be powered and should have alerted them. Then again, how old was the boat versus when did CO's become mandatory.

    Whatever the circumstances, it is a shame.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Captharv,

    I guess I should have been more specific. The Lister Diesel engines are hand started (large crank like a model T). This powers the air compressor to build up

    sufficient air in the prime mover holding tank. This air pressure (125psi, about 100 cuft) can then be used to start the first Prime Mover. Once this Prime Mover (Cat, EMD) is started and warmed up, its generator is brought online (600vac, 60hz, 1200a). Then the normal electric motor driven compressors can be started for starting the remaining Prime Movers. Getting a cold EMD started can be a chore. We had sufficient ventilation and complied with all the regs you cited. A Drilling rig can weigh over 2000 tons easily and be 300 feet long. Most of the supply boats were 85 to 130 Feet long. Hope this helps.

    John 1999 2452 named Plan "B"

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I just wonder what they would have been powering? It couldn't have been the air conditioning since they were on the hard. Would be interesting to find out the whole story. Reguardless there is no excuse for running a portable generator in the engine bay. To many of us that seems pretty obvious. To some not soo much. We hear a new story every winter about how some family died while running one in their basement. I just think some people have no clue. We all do stupid things. Usually we know we are. But sometimes not. Who knows what happend in this case. If I kill myself in a stupid manor, feel free to make jokes. lol I promise I won't come down and haunt you.

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  • captharv
    replied
    I was not specific enough. The rules forbid a air cooled GASOLINE engine, unless this rule has been recinded in the last 10 years. If it has, I aplogize.

    The compressors you state, what is the power source? Diesel? Electric Mmotors? Gas? Propane?

    However, this still does not excuse someone running a portable air cooled genny in an engine or otherwise "closed compartment".

    Heres the "rules" from the Gov't CFR website

    CFR > Title 46 > Chapter I > Part 182 > § 182.420. Engine cooling

    Current as of: Oct. 2009

    Check for updates

    (a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraphs (b), (c), (d), and (e) of this section, all engines must be water cooled and meet the requirements of this paragraph.

    (1) The engine head, block, and exhaust manifold must be water-jacketed and cooled by water from a pump that operates whenever the engine is operating.

    (2) A suitable hull strainer must be installed in the circulating raw water intake line of an engine cooling water system.

    (3) A closed fresh water system may be used to cool the engine.

    (b) An engine water cooling system on a vessel of not more than 19.8 meters (65 feet) in length, carrying not more than 12 passengers, may comply with the requirements of ABYC P-4 (incorporated by reference; see 46 CFR 175.600) instead of the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.

    (c) On a vessel of not more than 19.8 meters (65 feet) in length carrying not more than 12 passengers, a propulsion gasoline engine may be air cooled when in compliance with the requirements of ABYC Project P-4.

    (d) An auxiliary gasoline engine may be air cooled when:

    (1) It has a self-contained fuel system and it is installed on an open deck; or
    (2) On a vessel of not more than 19.8 meters (65 feet) in length carrying not more than 12 passengers, it is in compliance with the requirements of ABYC P-4.

    (e) A propulsion or auxiliary diesel engine may be air cooled or employ an air cooled jacket water radiator when:

    (1) Installed on an open deck and sufficient ventilation for machinery cooling is available;

    (2) Installed in an enclosed or partially enclosed space for which ventilation for machinery cooling is provided, which complies with the requirement of Sec. 182.465(b), and other necessary safeguards are taken so as not to endanger the vessel; or

    (3) Installed on a vessel of not more than 19.8 meters (65 feet) in length carrying not more than 12 passengers, in compliance with the requirements of ABYC Project P-4.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I beg to differ. I have personally run many air cooled Lister 2 cylinder air cooled air compressors below decks on oil rigs and supply boats. They are in place to build up air to enable the starting of large air starting diesel engines (EMD, CAT, Superior, etc.). Lister has sold thousands of these to the marine industry. Proper ventilation was always present as well as properly ducted exhaust systems. This may be a special circumstance as far as the USCG, ABS, LLOYDS etc are concerned. I do not mean to approve or condone using a portable generator below decks, the swim platform or similar above deck arrangement is best IMO.

    John 2452 w/Honda EV2000

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  • captharv
    replied
    KnoxBoater wrote:
    I will never put a portable genny in my engine compartment, BUT, what if you take these precautions:

    1) Run the exhaust via sealed tube from the genny to the outside

    2) Use a plug in (with AAA Batter backup) Carbon Monoxide detector in the cabin

    3) Run the blower
    Wrong!!!!!

    It is against federal laws (read--CG regulations) to run an air cooled engine (of any kind) below decks (read---engine room)

    NO amount of ventilation, exhaust pipes, etc makes it legal.

    Had a buddy who wanted to put a VW air cooled engine in a small trawler. he consukted a marine surveyor and was informed about being illegal.

    Item #2: Air cooled engines are not "spark protected" or "marine certified"

    Double whammy

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  • captharv
    replied
    KnoxBoater wrote:
    I will never put a portable genny in my engine compartment, BUT, what if you take these precautions:

    1) Run the exhaust via sealed tube from the genny to the outside

    2) Use a plug in (with AAA Batter backup) Carbon Monoxide detector in the cabin

    3) Run the blower
    Wrong!!!!!

    It is against federal laws (read--CG regulations) or run an air cooled engine (of any kind) below decks (read---engine room)

    NO amount of ventilation, exhaust pipes, etc makes it legal.

    Had a buddy who wanted to put a VW air cooled engine in a small trawler. he consulted a marine surveyor and was informed about being illegal.

    To: tbear: "red skin" quoted in the article, is the textbook indication of CO poisoning.

    yes, the article did say "a portable generator was found inthe engine compartment.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Same thing in motorcycling. If he screwed up, it helps to know what not to do, not hide it just to avoid appearing callous.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    beachbum1 wrote:
    Hindsight is 20/20.I love the way everyone insults the dead.Very classy,you should be ashamed of yourselves.You don't know what really happened other than two poor bastards bit the dust and wether it was thru carelesness or not have some respect.
    while the tones could definitely be a bit more sympathetic, i think that we discuss these things (even if we are preaching to the choir) so that we avoid them in the future.

    i'm an avid rock climber and present on a few forums. when there is a death in climbing, a discussion follows trying to understand what happened and, more importantly, how it could be avoided.

    you are correct in that some people need to be more respectful.

    as cliche as it is, the man who doesn't study the past is doomed to repeat it.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Hindsight is 20/20.I love the way everyone insults the dead.Very classy,you should be ashamed of yourselves.You don't know what really happened other than two poor bastards bit the dust and wether it was thru carelesness or not have some respect.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    706jim, See:

    http://www.inquisition.ca/en/esd/artic/generatrice.htm

    But in context of a boat engine compartment

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  • 706jim
    replied
    KnoxBoater wrote:
    I will never put a portable genny in my engine compartment, BUT, what if you take these precautions:

    1) Run the exhaust via sealed tube from the genny to the outside

    2) Use a plug in (with AAA Batter backup) Carbon Monoxide detector in the cabin

    3) Run the blower
    Define "sealed".

    Not really practical with your typical Honda.

    Also, these units rely on free air circulation for cooling. They would never get this unless you left the hatch open while the generator was running.

    Leave a comment:

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