Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dave's transom repair my 2556

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    "Timberwolf" post=547844 wrote:
    The amount of resin/filler you used on your test pieces is more than needed, a thin film would suffice. As long as the pieces you are bonding have a clean mating surface, as in two new pieces of wood, a thin film, without any fillers even, will do. If bonding a piece of wood to an uneven piece of glass, then you need the filler to make for a thicker film (gap filling properties). One of the strengths/reasons I choose to use West System is that ability to create a bond stronger than the material, ie. the wood will break before the glue joint will let go.
    I guess I was trying to bond and try my hand at a fillet all at the same time. :silly:

    Still learning. When it comes time to stick my transom core I won't thicken the epoxy till after the core has been glued in with non thickened material and some biaxial cloth in there too. Then after its clamped up I will ad some 406 I think to thicken it up and fill in the small gap around the edge of the core. That's my plan anyway, what do you think? I still need to wait for better warmer weather. Thanks for the advise.
    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX"
    '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
    (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    Misc. projects thread
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

    Comment


      #47
      When it comes to your transom, I doubt you can ensure 100 % coverage without some filler. You will need some gap filling properties. Without filler, the resin will likely just run to the bottom, gravity can be very inconvenient.

      When I was skinning my hull, I was used 5 layers of very flexible 4 ml plywood. I pushed the first layer from underneath while I stapled the second layer in place. Just two layers bonded together creates a lamination and has strength beyond what you would expect. If you can apply pressure over the entire surface ( in my case, lots of staples) or are able to clamp two stiff pieces, such as two pieces of 3/4", resin alone will give you a good bond.



      Comment


        #48
        "Timberwolf" post=547960 wrote:
        When it comes to your transom, I doubt you can ensure 100 % coverage without some filler. You will need some gap filling properties. Without filler, the resin will likely just run to the bottom, gravity can be very inconvenient.

        When I was skinning my hull, I was used 5 layers of very flexible 4 ml plywood. I pushed the first layer from underneath while I stapled the second layer in place. Just two layers bonded together creates a lamination and has strength beyond what you would expect. If you can apply pressure over the entire surface ( in my case, lots of staples) or are able to clamp two stiff pieces, such as two pieces of 3/4", resin alone will give you a good bond.

        [attachment]3806 wrote:
        Samsung023.jpeg[/attachment]
        I was thinking more about the core replacement last night, seems to wake me up around 3-4 AM. Just can't turn off my brain :silly: as you have suggested, I don't think I really need to add any mat when I stick the first core to the transom, some non thickened resin brushed on both pieces followed by some resin thickened with 403 troweled on should do it. Adding a mat in there might make things to difficult.

        Gonna go do some testing with some of the fillers now.
        Dave
        Edmonds, WA
        "THE FIX"
        '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
        (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
        The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
        Misc. projects thread
        https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

        Comment


          #49
          Not exactly transom work, but work that needs to be done before the fuel tank is installed.

          I thought I'd give a go at some epoxy repair today in the fuel tank area. I had previously ground out all the crapy glass work on either side of all 4 plywood runners that the fuel tank sits on, it was laid up or shot in there by a monkey I think. Actually a monkey could have one a better job :side: Full of air pockets and massive gaps in the glasswork allowed water ingress into the plywood runners. I had to remove a section of each outer runner do to rot.

          So a not so quick bit of sanding and cleaning and I was ready for some epoxy.
          I had to lay down and tuck my head under the floor of the cabin to reach all the way to the forward fuel tank bulkhead. I brushed on some un thickened epoxy just in the center area to start with.
          I used about 1/2 of what I had mixed up and the other 1/2 got some 406 filler added to it. The 406 is cool stuff, it's made for vertical and overhead work. If mixed properly it will not sag or fall out of where its been placed. I used it to shape a fillet of sorts on each side of the plywood runners. I plan to glass it all in after the new pieces are installed and everything has been filled. After all, this is part of the bilge and will potentially get some water in there at some point. I want the piece of mind knowing these runners will stay dry forever.
          This all took way longer than I expected ( big surprise!) but I'm starting to get the hang of it. Tomorrow I hope to get the new sections of the runners stuck down and most of the fillets done. We shall see.
          Click image for larger version  Name:	image.jpeg Views:	2 Size:	593.3 KB ID:	392515
          Last edited by builderdude; 11-12-2017, 09:24 AM.
          Dave
          Edmonds, WA
          "THE FIX"
          '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
          (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
          The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
          Misc. projects thread
          https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

          Comment


            #50
            Wow Dave I don't ever plan to take on a project this big but between you and Larry I sure am learning a lot.
            1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

            Mike

            Comment


              #51
              Looking good Dave. But I have a question. With a coat of epoxy brushed on, aren't you going to have to crawl in there again and sand the whole surface again before you glass over it?

              Is the 406 a powder?

              Comment


                #52
                Why yes I am Larry, thanks for reminding me, :P one of the drawbacks I guess. I thought the tank area would be a good place to "learn" how the epoxy behaves. The 406 filler is weird stuff to say the least. It's a super fine powder and "floats" on top of the epoxy mix when added. It's takes a bit of working/stirring the epoxy to finally get it mixed in. The other fillers and my grindings mix in fairly easily. The 406 is also bad stuff to be breathing, I wear a chemical respirator when using it. Colloidal Silica. After mixed it will stand off the side of the mix cup 1 1/2" without sagging.
                Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	282.0 KB
ID:	392516
                Last edited by builderdude; 11-11-2017, 07:44 PM.
                Dave
                Edmonds, WA
                "THE FIX"
                '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
                (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
                The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                Misc. projects thread
                https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                Comment


                  #53
                  Getting to know the characteristics of the epoxy was a good idea. It gives you an idea of how much working time you had with it. That was one of the things I had to get used to in the beginning.

                  Did the silica seem to extend the time it took for the epoxy to cure? It does when I add filler to the poly resin.

                  Keep at it Dave, it'll be second nature to you soon.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Not sure if it does, but I wasn't really looking for stuff like that. Maybe I'll learn more today.
                    Dave
                    Edmonds, WA
                    "THE FIX"
                    '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
                    (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
                    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                    Misc. projects thread
                    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Keep notes of the temperatures your working in and the curing times. It will help refresh your memory if you go long periods without working in the boat.

                      As temps go up the cure time will shorten.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Click image for larger version

Name:	image_332.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	408.6 KB
ID:	392519Click image for larger version  Name:	image_333.jpg Views:	1 Size:	446.7 KB ID:	392520Click image for larger version  Name:	image.jpeg Views:	1 Size:	525.1 KB ID:	392638 Got in the boat today, sanded the the back half of what I did yesterday to prep for the repairs to the rear section of the fuel tank area. I also cut a piece of 3/4 PVC to stick in the bottom of the aft bulkhead to replace the one that was glassed in crooked. I had also cut into it when removing the old material.

                        Started in the center and worked outward. Stuck the PVC drain in with some thickened epoxy and used the rest of my small batch to start the fillets.
                        Then onto sticking the outer tank runners. I used the 403 filler today for bonding the new plywood runners and found it works great for fillets as well. I think I like it better, much easier to mix too.
                        Accidentally made a hockey puck as I forgot about my mix while I was working on the PVC drain tube.
                        I also have a puck from yesterday too.
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	image.jpeg Views:	2 Size:	229.4 KB ID:	392517Click image for larger version  Name:	image.jpeg Views:	2 Size:	593.3 KB ID:	392518
                        Last edited by builderdude; 11-15-2017, 08:14 AM.
                        Dave
                        Edmonds, WA
                        "THE FIX"
                        '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
                        (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
                        The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                        Misc. projects thread
                        https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                        Comment


                          #57
                          "LRCX 2750" post=548552 wrote:
                          I have a question. With a coat of epoxy brushed on, aren't you going to have to crawl in there again and sand the whole surface again before you glass over it?
                          Maybe not - many times I applied more over top of cured parts without washing off the blush, but if you are concerned, read this - Oh and I warned you about those hockey pucks!

                          Unless you're using WEST SYSTEM's blush-free 207 Special Clear Hardener, amine blush may appear as a wax-like film on cured epoxy surfaces. It is a by-product of the curing process and may be more noticeable in cool, moist conditions. Amine blush can clog sandpaper and inhibit subsequent bonding, but this inert substance can easily be removed.

                          To remove the blush, wash the surface with clean water (not solvent) and an abrasive pad, such as Scotch-brite(TM) 7447 General Purpose Hand Pads. Dry the surface with paper towels to remove the dissolved blush before it dries on the surface. Sand any remaining glossy areas with 80-grit sandpaper. Wet-sanding will also remove the amine blush. If a release fabric is applied over the surface of fresh epoxy, amine blush will be removed when the release fabric is peeled from the cured epoxy and no additional sanding is required.

                          Epoxy surfaces that have not fully cured may be bonded to or coated with epoxy without washing or sanding. Before applying coatings other than epoxy (paints, bottom paints, varnishes, gelcoats, etc.), allow epoxy surfaces to cure fully, then wash and sand.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Great thread Dave. I'm still thinking about purchasing the 3270 and putting myself in your shoes. Too bad you live on the other coast, I would come over and give you a hand and learn fiberglass on someone else's project!

                            Comment


                              #59
                              So I just got off the phone with West System tech support. As Timberwolf said, amine blush may appear as a wax-like film on cured epoxy surfaces. It is a by-product of the curing process and may be more noticeable in cool, moist conditions. I have been using a 500 watt halogen work light to see with and for a heat source in the bilge area to keep the temps up at night. I am not seeing any wax- like film on the surface of the cured epoxy the next day, just a clear hard epoxy layer. When I hit it with 60 or 80 grit it doesn't clog the paper and sands reasonably well. One thing I asked about when talking to tech support was the possibility of using 206(slow cure) or 207(blush free/ slow cure) hardener in the mix as an "end of the day coat" to keep from having to sand the next day. He said that many professional shops do this to eliminate the prep time of cleaning and sanding the next day.

                              I'm not really sure I need to worry about it. The tank area is the largest area to have to prep, and the hardest to access( laying down to get all the way in there). Once I'm finished with it, the rest of the project is much more accessible for prep.

                              Off to lay some glass :cheer:
                              Dave
                              Edmonds, WA
                              "THE FIX"
                              '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
                              (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
                              The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                              Misc. projects thread
                              https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                              Comment


                                #60
                                "rddelfino" post=548751 wrote:
                                Great thread Dave. I'm still thinking about purchasing the 3270 and putting myself in your shoes. Too bad you live on the other coast, I would come over and give you a hand and learn fiberglass on someone else's project!
                                Those were my exact thoughts when Larry started his rebuild. Let us now what you decide to do, sounds like that boat has lot of newer stuff installed. Would love to see some pics of it if ya get a chance
                                Dave
                                Edmonds, WA
                                "THE FIX"
                                '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
                                (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
                                The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                                Misc. projects thread
                                https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X