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Big dealer mistake - Table holders not sealed on Element XL-gctid816549

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    Big dealer mistake - Table holders not sealed on Element XL-gctid816549

    I recently noticed that our Element XL was not performing as it had. RPMs were down, top speed had lost about 6-8 mph, she felt sluggish...

    As I had installed underwater lights, I though that I had badly sealed them and that water had gotten in the sponsons. So I took the boat out this morning and proceded to drill a small hole in both sponsons. Result: No water whatsoever. (Kinda reassured me that my underwater light installation had been done properly...)

    But then, what was wrong? As I didn't know whether the center hull was linked to the sponsons, I decided that the best was to try to remove the table holders installed on the main deck by the Bayliner vendor after i had asked for this accessory to be installed when I ordered the boat last year. Surprisingly, the holders came off very easily. And I basically discovered that water has been entering the center hull without notice as the holders were badly installed. I'd love to show pictures but the system keeps telling me 'File upload failed'

    Basically, I'm guessing the guys didn't seal the table holders with enough 5200. So every time I've been washing the boat or that it has rained, or the the kids have been coming on board wet, some water has been falling into the center hull. And that hull isn't empty. It's got ply and foam. But not closed cell foam. So I now basically have a floating water filled sponge...

    I've just written to the seller. I hope he does what he needs to do. I don't think there's anything other to do than replace the boat.

    Any other ideas guys?

    Nick
    2016 Bayliner Element XL with Mercury 115 four stroke Pro XS
    Geneva, Switzerland

    #2
    If it was dealer installed I would think they are responsible. Hopefully they do the right thing.

    If you were in the US, Boat US helps members with claims. Maybe you have a similar organization if you run into any difficulty.
    Phil, Vicky, Ashleigh & Sydney
    1998 3055 Ciera
    (yes, a 1998)
    Previous boat: 1993 3055
    Dream boat: 70' Azimut or Astondoa 72
    Sea Doo XP
    Sea Doo GTI SE
    Life is short. Boats are cool.
    The family that plays together stays together.
    Vice Commodore: Bellevue Yacht Club

    Comment


      #3
      ill buy it.

      Then i will raise the bow and somehow suck all the water out. Maybe cut a hole and install a hatch maybe a 5-6 " round one.

      http://www.basspro.com/TH-Marine-Sur...ductextensions

      I might leave the hatch open and blow air into it for a few days till i know it's dry.
      Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

      1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

      '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

      Manalapan N.J

      Comment


        #4
        If I could just upload picture like before, you'd see how bad it is in there. The ply has started rotting and is all soft. The only real way would be to separate the top and bottom molds from each other and replace all the waterlogged foam and wood. But in my case, as this is clearly a dealer mistake and an 18 month old boat, I'm not going to settle for anything less than a full hull replacement.

        I've spoken to him and he's now assessing the situation with the Bayliner factory in Poland and his insurance company. Hopefully we'll have positive news by the end of the week.

        Nick
        2016 Bayliner Element XL with Mercury 115 four stroke Pro XS
        Geneva, Switzerland

        Comment


          #5
          Here are some pictures for those interested:










          Attached files

          2016 Bayliner Element XL with Mercury 115 four stroke Pro XS
          Geneva, Switzerland

          Comment


            #6
            Oh boy.
            ..........
            Matt Train
            BOC Site Team
            Chicagoland, IL

            Comment


              #7
              Still under warranty ?
              Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

              1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

              '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

              Manalapan N.J

              Comment


                #8
                Wow. Yeah I hope that's under warranty. That's so much extra weight if that's like It throughout the hull. I am so sorry man.
                1994 Bayliner Capri 1850, 3 liter Mercruiser, 9.9 Johnson kicker.
                1987 Wellcraft Antigua 265, Mercruiser 383 Stroker V8.
                Pulls with Ext. Cab 2006 GMC Sierra 2500 HD

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well, I bought it in May 2016 and these holders were installed by the dealer upon my request as the boat didn't have them factory installed.

                  So 'under warranty' is kinda irrelevant as this is a mistake that dates back to before I actually started using it.

                  The dealer seems to be cooperating as he has contacted his insurance company. I just hope they quickly send an expert to examine the damage and decide on how they are going to sort this out.

                  In my view, it's pretty clear: blatant dealer error putting insufficient sealant around a critical accessory which lead to water entering a sealed portion of the hull not equipped to handle water (no drain, non treated wood, open cell foam). I just hope it works out in the end...

                  Nick
                  2016 Bayliner Element XL with Mercury 115 four stroke Pro XS
                  Geneva, Switzerland

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I hate to say it but some of the stuff I'm seeing from recent Element owners isn't very encouraging.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Don't get me wrong. I love our Element XL. For the price, it's a great family day boat with a great and very versatile design. I don't actually see any other boat in that price bracket with better (or even equivalent) great features.

                      And to be perfectly honest, every glitch or problem I have had has come from the dealer's work. Basically everything they touched or installed was badly done or wrongly installed :

                      - Enertia prop wasn't tightened properly (had about 1/2 inch of play in it - I had to dismount and re-tighten it)

                      - Dual tank switch was leaking (I had to ask for it to be replaced by a proper tank selector switch)

                      - Mercmonitor was badly connected and badly setup (I had to rewire and re-initialize it)

                      - Radio wiring went straight to the battery and didn't go through the battery switch (Haven't changed that yet)

                      - And now the table holders not sealed properly.

                      I'm wondering whether to write to Bayliner after this is over to let them know they have a very very low quality dealer there...

                      Lets get through this mess first though...

                      Nick
                      2016 Bayliner Element XL with Mercury 115 four stroke Pro XS
                      Geneva, Switzerland

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I am curious if you think the sponson area holds similar materials (open cell foam, unsealed plywood,etc). Since both areas were not intended to get wet, I would imagine both areas have the same materials inside.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well that's a very good question... Especially since the 'fix' that is proposed to those who find out they have water in the sponsons is to add extra drain plugs. Meaning, Bayliner reckons that having water in that area is not threatening to the hull integrity.

                          My quick answer is I don't know what's in the sponsons. But, in all logic, since no water in meant to be in there, the center hull structure and the sponson's should be the same. There is conflicting info on that front though. I have seen picture before the extra drain plug installation which seems to indicate that there is foam and other that show an empty space. Now whether that means that there is also non treated ply...? Can't be certain. The really worrying thing is that the breaching of those closed areas is very easy. My example with the holders in one way, but there are many others like for the gas tank holding braces. If these aren't properly installed (or moved for one reason or another) you can easily end up having holes in the floor. And since the tank area is not drained, you can end up filling the sponson below and nothing will alert you to this.

                          One thing is for sure, water in those closed areas is bad bad news. From what I can see about the construction method in my hull, it definitely isn't Boston Whaler. Then again, the MSRP isn't the same either. You get what you pay for... I am very surprised that Bayliner doesn't put huge warning signs in the boat or in its owners manual. I'm also very surprised they haven't taken this M hull back to the drawing board to ensure the closed hulls can't be inadvertently breached.

                          Nick
                          2016 Bayliner Element XL with Mercury 115 four stroke Pro XS
                          Geneva, Switzerland

                          Comment


                            #14
                            "fishbayers" post=817341 wrote:
                            I am curious if you think the sponson area holds similar materials (open cell foam, unsealed plywood,etc). Since both areas were not intended to get wet, I would imagine both areas have the same materials inside.
                            Why would you care? Remember, your not buying one because of the terrible design. Stop being a troll.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              mrjeff, I will keep my response to your message short. I am not a troll. I have an interest in this topic and I am asking technical questions about this issue and trying to offer insight. Perhaps you are joking (I do not follow your posts, even though it appears you follow mine). If you are not joking, you are violating Rule 1 of the Forum rules with your last post.

                              Regarding the topic:

                              I agree that breaching the closed areas on the Element hulls seems to be easy when performing mods, the base for the table being a good example. Is this typical of boat hull designs or do other hulls utilize a different design? I am curious if the installation of a table mount would contribute the same issues if not sealed properly on other boat hulls or is there something different about the Element hulls? Either way, I would not expect sealant to be adequate in protecting a critical area like this. It seems a gasket would be needed, with adequate fasteners that apply consistent pressure to the gasket. I am also curious how the factory would have installed the table.

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