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    #46
    Excellent thanks for that Info, I will run a compression test - nice to have those values as a baseline.

    They did have the original book and the addenda that included the 260B/175, I downloaded a copy of that and the spec sheet from Bayliner web too. They too gave me the Service manual you referenced, and like i said all the service receipts both of you had done...this is how I figured out it was your boat previously.

    I'll back track the wiring, that was what I figured it might be and yes the rotary battery selector switch is still in there.

    30yr old boat..the motor is tired for sure, but if babied into a rebuild not dead. The engine looks great, original pain intact, not a leak anywhere - I popped an inspection mirror all around it. Compression test will sort out a ring scored cylinder issue, like i said i had an old GM350 just like this that I ruptured the diaphragm on the mech pump and it flooded my oil pan too..

    Again thank you very much for being an accessible resource

    Dave
    2450 Sportcruiser '86
    Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
    VP275

    Comment


      #47
      Always. Seeing the pic of her made my heart flutter....she still means something to me after all these years, and we made a lot of ridiculously awesome memories on her.

      If you do need to repower, I don't know what your budget would be, but one suggestion:

      If you sense she's getting tired, I advise you pull the engine before she goes kaput, while she is still worth money to someone who needs an engine for a freeze damaged boat. Sell that on Craigslist. And then invest in one of these from MichiganMotorz:

      http://www.michiganmotorz.com/vortec...ment-p-58.html

      Assuming you get a grand for the old engine, that makes the new engine extremely palatable, and you get a warranty to boot.

      The other thing I would do to the boat once you get her sorted and want to start adding performance is trim tabs. I don't know if they mounted the pair I had bought for the boat, and if they didn't then I am assuming you didn't get them, but this boat had tabs optional, and I really think it needs them. You can either buy new, or you can call some place like Lanier Marine Liquidators down in Atlanta and have them pull a set off any of their junked Bayliner cruisers they have down there.

      THe last suggestion I have is this....and it's a bolt on if you find a lower unit!




      Matt Train
      BOC Site Team
      Chicagoland, IL

      Comment


        #48
        Wow you just reminded me, She told me she had replacement trim tabs still in a box and I looked at the boat and said, there are none what are they replacing. I still need to go back over there and pick up a miscellaneous box of stuff she said she had in the garage. If I get them, they will be installed..
        2450 Sportcruiser '86
        Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
        VP275

        Comment


          #49
          I bought them off someone who pulled them off a 1987 2450 Ciera Sunbridge. Since that hull is the exact same one as the 1986 Sportcruiser from the rubrail down, they should be a direct bolt on. (put another way: the 1986 Sportcruiser was a preview of the new-for-1987 2450 Ciera Sunbridge.) If you look at the transom, you can see the indentations where they would be installed.

          But they are used, and they did come from a salt water boat, so test them before you start drilling. I seem to recall they were bottom painted blue too, so they would need to be stripped.
          Matt Train
          BOC Site Team
          Chicagoland, IL

          Comment


            #50
            Seized up tight as a drum...water in cylinders 1&6 and 2qts in the oil pan, No winterization? overheat meltdown? doh. Now have diesel soaking in the cylinders to try and free her to try and get a compression, leakdown test prior to a dissassembly of intake, exhaust and heads to have a better look, if a major meltdown/cracked whatever or gasket failure.

            Looking like a little more serious of an overheat and tow-in, condition. My be in contact with that recommended motor place in MI for a re-power over the winter.
            2450 Sportcruiser '86
            Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
            VP275

            Comment


              #51
              "Neo" post=756565 wrote:
              Seized up tight as a drum...water in cylinders 1&6 and 2qts in the oil pan, No winterization? overheat meltdown? doh. Now have diesel soaking in the cylinders to try and free her to try and get a compression, leakdown test prior to a dissassembly of intake, exhaust and heads to have a better look, if a major meltdown/cracked whatever or gasket failure.

              Looking like a little more serious of an overheat and tow-in, condition. My be in contact with that recommended motor place in MI for a re-power over the winter.
              This just makes me angry. There's no excuse for that on these engines when the water pump is on the front of the engine. The engine was plenty healthy at the time. THe temp gauge worked just fine, too - when I water tested the boat with them, we took it on a 4 hour cruise down to Chicago and back from Worth.

              Damn that makes me mad.....It sounds like they cooked it and cooked it good - and possibly blew a head gasket. At this point I would be very suspect of the engine, even if you do get it un-stuck.

              SO you have a choice to make....how much of your money do I get to spend here?

              Given the condition of the rest of the boat, and the fact that the OD has been gone through and should be in good working order, I would advise you to do a proper (i.e. - not from a junkyard) repower. The boat is a $5,000 boat minimum in running condition as-is. Anything else in this condition and with these accomodations are $10,000 +...I already looked. So you have quite a bit of room here if you want to dump some money into this thing.

              If money is tight (and isn't it always?) I would pull that engine, repower with a new MM engine, and once you get the boat running well again, pull anything that's good off the old engine like the carb, the electronic dist, etc, and Craigslist it off for anything you can get to recoup some of the cost for the repower.

              The upshot here is you will end up with a boat that has an engine warranty, and frankly that's worth quite a bit to me.

              If you do repower, I would also replace the rubber elbow connectors from the riders to the Y pipe. They likely cooked those as well.

              Sorry about this my friend. Again, the good news is you have plenty of equity in the boat to justify the repower.
              Matt Train
              BOC Site Team
              Chicagoland, IL

              Comment


                #52
                Still not freed up, I went to step 2 and added a half cup of ATF to each cylinder. I'm planning to start taking the topend off tomorrow, if it does free up and the cylinders/heads/block are not trash it will need at minimum a regasketing, Fel-ProMarine is only $102.

                I do plan to repower in the spring to get the warranty across an entire season, so I am still hopeful that I can get this old girl in operation for some fall boating on the river. I agree I cant touch a boat this size in this condition for what I can get a new 5.7 power plant for, so that decision is made.

                Good call on the exhaust tubes..they look like half shrunk shrink tubing right now.

                No need for sorry, I knew what I was gambling on when I jumped on the deal. I'm an optimist, I hoped for minimal wrenching, but expected that I was in for some work.

                And look what showed up next to the boat yesterday, look familiar.



                2450 Sportcruiser '86
                Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
                VP275

                Comment


                  #53
                  Well I'll be damned. Still has the blue bottom paint on it too.

                  Please find a way to get that off, if you don't mind. It'll clash with the navy of the Sunbrella. :P

                  I am not very techy, but if you can, try and hook them up and make sure they work. If they don't, Bennett was the vendor for those, and they have excellent customer service for replacement parts. Just tell them you have an '86 2450 Ciera. The stock mounting point for the rocker switches on Sportcruisers with the tabs option was immediately in front of the shifter.

                  Hopefully with the receipts and me as a background, you've got enough info to know what the boat needs. I sold the boat for $7,000, and I think you can still make a solid case for that number today given where used boats are priced these days....especially if you repower with MM and have a warranty. We know the drive is (or damn well should be) good - and the entire steering system was gone through with a zero feedback helm and new cable. Repower next spring, craigslist off the old engine (or parts) to minimize the budget hit, and then do the vinyl when you have time and budget. You can probably get away with the rear bench and sunpad only for now. ONce done, that boat may well outlast you for thousands less than anything else you can buy right now. So yeah, it sucks, you gotta put cash in it now....but think of the potential. The bones are still good.

                  In addition to the exhaust rubber couplers, I would also plan to look at the PDS bearings, since you're going to be pulling those anyway. Plenty of threads here on those, or let me know and I can facilitate a convo with Rick (2850 Bounty) directly and he can walk you through it. The boat was clearly a freshwater boat it's entire life, so I wouldn't expect any issues with corrosion.

                  Besides that, the structure should still be sound, including the transom and stringers. They were that way when I sold the boat and I don't think they stored her in water in that time. SO if the floors are still sound, the hull should be too.

                  For fun, here's some stock ads/photography from Bayliner. The boat was so new in 1986 they only had a line drawing of it in the brochures, but these came out after those were printed. Mine had the red boot stripes when I bought it but they were cracked, patched, and generally looked like s**t so I removed them.







                  You might also notice the gel coat was patched in spots, specifically up front, and along the starbord side about 5 feet forward of the transom. I believe the boat was scratched or sustained light gelcoat damage there at some point.

                  And another pic of an airborn '88 2655 since..well, it's awesome:


                  Matt Train
                  BOC Site Team
                  Chicagoland, IL

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Yes I will, I have access to a sandblast cabinet and some nitric acid for re-passivating the SS.

                    I wouldn't put those on such a nice looking boat in that condition...little to Beverly Hillbillies for my tastes. I'd be embarrassed to trailer it to the launch looking like that.

                    PDS bearings...OK I need to educate myself, I'll break out my Google-Fu. Like the gimbal bearing on a merc?

                    Structure is definitely sound, some of the seat plywood is on my to-do over winter list..I'm a bit of a retent if im going to invest time into something.

                    Like it better without the red stripes, i had no idea they were on the hull.. only red on it is the interior piping.

                    She gave me two corian tables too, I need to get replacement tubes, but thats an anywhere item. claims to have a bimini for it and some rope/tow-behind tube toys etc.. its like Xmas every-time i go over there a new box shows up.
                    2450 Sportcruiser '86
                    Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
                    VP275

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Great if it has a Bimini. It didn't when I had it, and we suffered for it.

                      PDS bearings:

                      Yes, like a gimbal. VP doesn't use gimbal bearings on these old AQs. It's good news because you don't need to align the engine like you do on gimbal based systems, it's a fixed geometry, but it also means the Primary Drive Shaft bearings (PDS) need to eventually be replaced, it's bad news if they fail, and they require pulling the engine to do. Also, I don't think you need to pull the whole drive here, just the upper transmission. You can see if you look at the back of the boat the engine literally sticks through the transom plate, and the drive bolts to that, rather than through a gimbal. If it weren't for the PDS bearings they would be maintenance free, but once you do them, they will last for another 30 years.

                      HEre's a few threads to get you started....Rick is our resident VP guy, and can walk you through this job drunk and blindfolded. (Not a bad idea to do bellows and inspect the U joints too...again, you're already in there. The drive's input shaft was replaced, so we're just talking everything in front of the drive)

                      http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/in...ings-and-seals

                      http://baylinerownersclub.org/index....s-bearing-help

                      Strongly suggest Kim at Canvas Plus when you tear into the plywood. Like i said, she'll make you replacement seat skins based on the actual Bayliner colors and patterns. A few threads here on that as well.
                      Matt Train
                      BOC Site Team
                      Chicagoland, IL

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Excellent, thank you for the thread links...I'll do some reading and get the parts ordered..I'm already all work no play (yet) at this point, whats another few little PM's.
                        2450 Sportcruiser '86
                        Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
                        VP275

                        Comment


                          #57
                          "Neo" post=757305 wrote:
                          Excellent, thank you for the thread links...I'll do some reading and get the parts ordered..I'm already all work no play (yet) at this point, whats another few little PM's.
                          Hang in there. She's a great boat, and will be even better when you're done.
                          Matt Train
                          BOC Site Team
                          Chicagoland, IL

                          Comment


                            #58
                            How are things...any improvement with the engine room?
                            Matt Train
                            BOC Site Team
                            Chicagoland, IL

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Well, shes topless and i hope to remove her heads tomorrow and see better what is going on...ordered a FelPro marine gasket set so I'll do the valve seals and o-rings too while on a bench, that is if they come back from fluxing OK. The exhaust manifolds and risers look great, freeze plugs intact, lots of sand, gravel and rust flakes flushed out, but a long back and forth water and compressed air flush they're flowing like a triple bypass, with oversize stents. I've ordered the PDS bearings and seals since I'll be sitting with a 300lb shortblock in a few days, I'll pluck the block out or move it 6in forward and do the job while I've got it apart. I doubt this top end has ever been off, looks like I'm cracking original paint seals on everything.

                              *Still planning on a repower in the spring, just trying to salvage some end of season puttin if I can for a few busted knuckles.
                              2450 Sportcruiser '86
                              Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
                              VP275

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Well, so much for optimism...complete lack of maintenance and winterizing ..allegedly out last season. hmm..this looks systemic issue...her powerplant getting picked out next week and off to the machine shop.

                                Pictures are not for the feint of heart.







                                Machine shop owner, honest guy says "Dont Bother" save your money, buy a crate motor. So i'm going shopping.

                                The upside is i have the PDS bearings and seals on will call pickup today,...$32 =tax for SKF / Timken
                                2450 Sportcruiser '86
                                Repower - Vortec 5.7 '16
                                VP275

                                Comment

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