Rusting hardware.-gctid372521

[Guest]

My boat is a 2010, and the bolts for the swim platform are already beginning to rust. I thought I read somwhere that Bayliner uses all stainless hardware. I'm hoping that I can get the dealer to replace them while it's in the shop for another more major issue. Does anyone know if Bayliner boasts that it uses all stainless hardware? I can't seem to find it in writing anywhere.

[boatworkfl]

Not all stainless is the same.

[Guest]

and even the best stainless can rust if treated incorrectly at any point in time

give them a hard time and hopefully they will fix it ?

[Guest]

That is why it is called "stainLESS", not "stainFREE". It isn't unusual at all for stainless to show slight rust stains. Use Flitz paste on them regularly. Awesome stuff.

To test the bolts, put a magnet on them. If the magnet really grabs well, then it is not stainless.

[Chief_Alen]

Or they used 2 different metals that are coming into contact with each other.

[boatworkfl]

Copied from an online source.

Some alloys, particularly 410 and 18-8 types, which include 302 and 304SS, may exhibit magnetic properties after being subjected to the severe stresses produced when cold forming (for example: forming the head during fastener manufacturing processes). This is especially true when cold forming smaller items such as screws. Cold forming occurs in the wire drawing, forming, and thread rolling process. Each of the processes will, typically, create enough martensite (a change from austenite) to produce a measurable degree of magnetism.

STAINLESS STEEL INFO

"What you need to know"

(Probably more then you ever wanted to know!)

The following is a discussion of the various types of stainless steel. For other terms and their definitions you will encounter when dealing with stainless steel click here.

18-8: 300 series stainless steel having approximately (not exactly) 18% chromium and 8% nickel. The term "18-8" is used interchangeably to characterize fittings made of 302, 302HQ, 303, 304, 305, 384, XM7, and other variables of these grades with close chemical compositions. There is little overall difference in corrosion resistance among the "18-8" types, but slight differences in chemical composition do make certain grades more resistant than others do against particular chemicals or atmospheres. "18-8" has superior corrosion resistance to 400 series stainless, is generally nonmagnetic, and is hardenable only by cold working.

304: The basic alloy. Type 304 (18-8) is an austenitic steel possessing a minimum of 18% chromium and 8% nickel, combined with a maximum of 0.08% carbon. It is a nonmagnetic steel which cannot be hardened by heat treatment, but instead. must be cold worked to obtain higher tensile strengths.

The 18% minimum chromium content provides corrosion and oxidation resistance. The alloy's metallurgical characteristics are established primarily by the nickel content (8% mm.), which also extends resistance to corrosion caused by reducing chemicals. Carbon, a necessity of mixed benefit, is held at a level (0.08% max.) that is satisfactory for most service applications.

The stainless alloy resists most oxidizing acids and can withstand all ordinary rusting. HOWEVER, IT WILL TARNISH. It is immune to foodstuffs, sterilizing solutions, most of the organic chemicals and dyestuffs, and a wide variety of inorganic chemicals. Type 304, or one of its modifications, is the material specified more than 50% of the time whenever a stainless steel is used.

Because of its ability to withstand the corrosive action of various acids found in fruits, meats, milk, and vegetables, Type 304 is used for sinks, tabletops, coffee urns, stoves, refrigerators, milk and cream dispensers, and steam tables. It is also used in numerous other utensils such as cooking appliances, pots, pans, and flatware.

Type 304 is especially suited for all types of dairy equipment - milking machines, containers, homogenizers, sterilizers, and storage and hauling tanks, including piping, valves, milk trucks and railroad cars. This 18-8 alloy is equally serviceable in the brewing industry where it is used in pipelines, yeast pans, fermentation vats, storage and railway cars, etc. The citrus and fruit juice industry also uses Type 304 for all their handling, crushing, preparation, storage and hauling equipment.

In those food processing applications such as in mills, bakeries, and slaughter and packing houses, all metal equipment exposed to animal and vegetable oils, fats, and acids is manufactured from Type 304.

Type 304 is also used for the dye tanks, pipelines buckets, dippers, etc. that come in contact with the lormic, acetic, and other organic acids used in the dyeing industry.

In the marine environment, because of it slightly higher strength and wear resistance than type 316 it is also used for nuts, bolts, screws, and other fasteners. It is also used for springs, cogs, and other components where both wear and corrosion resistance is needed.

Type Analysis of Stainless Type 304

Carbon 0.08% max. Silicon 1.00% max.

Manganese 2.00% max. Chromium 18.00-20.00%

Phosphorus 0.045% max. Nickel 8.00-10.50%

Sulfur 0.030% max.

316: For severe environments. Of course, there are many industrial processes that require a higher level of resistance to corrosion than Type 304 can offer. For these applications, Type 316 is the answer.

Type 316 is also austenitic, non-magnetic, and thermally nonhardenable stainless steel like Type 304. The carbon content is held to 0.08% maximum, while the nickel content is increased slightly. What distinguishes Type 316 from Type 304 is the addition of molybdenum up to a maximum of 3%.

Molybdenum increases the corrosion resistance of this chromium-nickel alloy to withstand attack by many industrial chemicals and solvents, and, in particular, inhibits pitting caused by chlorides. As such, molybdenum is one of the single most useful alloying additives in the fight against corrosion.

By virtue of the molybdenum addition, Type 316 can withstand corrosive attack by sodium and calcium brines, hypochlorite solutions, phosphoric acid; and the sulfite liquors and sulfurous acids used in the paper pulp industry. This alloy, therefore, is specified for industrial equipment that handles the corrosive process chemicals used to produce inks, rayons, photographic chemicals, paper, textiles, bleaches, and rubber. Type 316 is also used extensively for surgical implants within the hostile environment of the body.

Type 316 is the main stainless used in the marine environment, with the exception of fasteners and other items where strength and wear resistance are needed, then Type 304 (18-8) is typically used.

Type Analysis of Stainless Type 316:

Carbon 0.08% max. Silicon 1.00% max.

Manganese 2.00% max. Chromium 16.00-18.00%

Phosphorus 0.045% max. Nickel 10.00-14.00%

Sulfur 0.030% max. Molybdenum 2.00-3.00%

[Mocoondo]

Are you in salt water?

If so, everything metal on your boat will eventually rust if not properly cared for.

A good thorough washdown after each time in salt water is absolutely mandatory if you expect anything on your boat to maintain a respectable appearance.

[Guest]

Without knowing, it could be an after factory ladder or it could have been removed and put back on somewhere in the past so it might not be factory??

The post that suggests using a magnet is the best way to find out, even a small fridge magnet will do, if it sticks then it isn't SS.

worst case take the old bolts off while you still can and replace, it should only cost a couple of $ and a bit of your time to get it all good again.

[Guest]

I am seeing signs of a similar issue on my 2011, the washers under the screw heads that connect the swim ladder to the swim platform are showing signs of rust. I just plan to replace them with new SS washers this spring, should be a quick and inexpensive fix. If I were taking the boat to the dealer for anything, I'd probably complain and ask them to do it but it's not worth the trouble all by itself.

Regards,

Jeff

[boatworkfl]

Macca wrote:
Without knowing, it could be an after factory ladder or it could have been removed and put back on somewhere in the past so it might not be factory??

The post that suggests using a magnet is the best way to find out, even a small fridge magnet will do, if it sticks then it isn't SS.

worst case take the old bolts off while you still can and replace, it should only cost a couple of $ and a bit of your time to get it all good again.

Some lower grades of stainless steel are magnetis, read my long previous post.

[Guest]

boatworkfl wrote:
Some lower grades of stainless steel are magnetis, read my long previous post.

Technically correct however this mainly relates to the less common grade 302 and 304 series as stated; this type of SS is mainly used in the food industry and industrial type tanks and pipes. You can tell this type of SS easily as it does not have the bright shine the 316 has. The 300 series SS tends to look more like brushed Ally and is dull in appearance.

Although you can mechanically introduce magnetism the levels tend to be very low and a magnet would not stick or be drawn as the levels are just too low for a normal household mag to be attracted.

In my experience 316 SS if the most common and is generally used for most marine fittings etc.

However not knowing what Bayliner use there could be some cheaper 302ss fittings used hence the corrosion starting to show. (I hope I am wrong but a quick check last night on my 185 showed all fittings nonmagnetic and luckily not rusting although she hardly see's salt water)

[boatworkfl]

Macca wrote:
Technically correct however this mainly relates to the less common grade 302 and 304 series as stated; this type of SS is mainly used in the food industry and industrial type tanks and pipes. You can tell this type of SS easily as it does not have the bright shine the 316 has. The 300 series SS tends to look more like brushed Ally and is dull in appearance.

Although you can mechanically introduce magnetism the levels tend to be very low and a magnet would not stick or be drawn as the levels are just too low for a normal household mag to be attracted.

In my experience 316 SS if the most common and is generally used for most marine fittings etc.

However not knowing what Bayliner use there could be some cheaper 302ss fittings used hence the corrosion starting to show. (I hope I am wrong but a quick check last night on my 185 showed all fittings nonmagnetic and luckily not rusting although she hardly seeÔÇÖs salt water)

If you buy 316 bolts, get your wallet out, most grades are 304, lower grades are common, remember: Exposure to air is what helps SS not corrode.

Read this!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=stainless+steel+corrosion+exposure+to+air&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.estainlesssteel.com%2Fcorrosion.shtml&ei=DquQT_nBOuXk6QHgm9mFBA&usg=AFQjCNG4_K9kfjgWhRs-VPL1srXMkCRvJQ

[Guest]

Wow, this is news to me. I had no idea that there are different grades of stainless. Thanks for the info. I guess the big bolts that attach the swim platform to the transom are stainless, since they fit the description of having rust stains. The hardware for the swim ladder, however, are crap and are already covered in rust. The boat is back at the dealer, because I found water in the transom when drilled for smart tabs. Yay. They said that they would also look at the rusted hardware. It will be interesting to see if they replace any of it. Of course I'm more interested to see what they say about the water logged transom. Grrr...

Thanks again.