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    Heydey boat owners?

    0 topics 0 comments....interesting...being that this line of boats was to put the entire competition to shame based on price and performance...have they sold any of these ugly floating refrigerators?
    Hell, Michigan (yes we really live in a city named "Hell" in Michigan)
    2012 BR 185 - 3.0 TKS
    1999 Chaparral 233 Sunesta Ltd., 5.0 Volvo
    1985 Harris Flotebote Classic 240
    1993 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR
    1993 Yamaha Waverunner III
    1995 Yamaha Waverunner III GP
    1995 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR PRO

    #2
    No surprise, I suppose. I refer to this line of boats as "Hey-nous."

    I think part of the problem is that Bayliner's target demographic is new boat owners. The Heyday line is a very specialized series of boats, for hardcore wakeboat customers. Hardcore wakeboat customers will likely look elsewhere. Of course the question is whether customers will look to Bayliner to save tens of thousands of dollars.

    I am not a typical bayliner customer, but I buy bayliners because they are cheap, versatile boats that are easy to use, service, and sell. Hey-nous fails the "versatility" test for me (and the appearance test, but that is subjective).

    Comment


      #3
      Providing a "Devil's Advocate" point of view -

      Whatever they sell, they are part of the Bayliner family, will most likely be new or relative new to the boat ownership fold, and we should welcome them in when they find their way here.

      I don't have visibility into how well they are selling, and I tend to agree with the single-focus point of view with the boat (I require all my big purchases to be multi-taskers) but we should approach them with open minds. The boat market is fluid and changing annually.
      Matt Train
      BOC Site Team
      Chicagoland, IL

      Comment


        #4
        The first one I saw was last summer in a rental fleet. That may be their target demographic to get them on the water. It didn't look terrible, but I would be adding it to my fleet anytime soon.
        Dan
        1999 Bayliner 3055
        2003 Triumph 150 CC
        2016 Yamaha VX Delux

        Comment


          #5
          Speaking to the guys at one of the largest marine stores here in southeast Michigan, a Bayliner dealer as well as well as other makes, they have told me that the response is not all that great, or what it was hyped up to be. As I mentioned in another post previously, when asked the why the customer won’t buy the boat, some say that on our inland lakes, they. Are getting banned by either thenlake association or the DEQ/DNR primarily due to waterfront or shoreline damage from the wakes produced. Another reason is that maynare saying they would rather have a used brand name wakeboat. Last reason I was told, is that it was pleasing to the eye of many. Personally I agree in that the looks are hideous...but hey I also don’t tlike thenlook of the newer bowrider period...with the “almost pontoon” like bow seating area..
          Hell, Michigan (yes we really live in a city named "Hell" in Michigan)
          2012 BR 185 - 3.0 TKS
          1999 Chaparral 233 Sunesta Ltd., 5.0 Volvo
          1985 Harris Flotebote Classic 240
          1993 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR
          1993 Yamaha Waverunner III
          1995 Yamaha Waverunner III GP
          1995 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR PRO

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by RobMick View Post
            Speaking to the guys at one of the largest marine stores here in southeast Michigan, a Bayliner dealer as well as well as other makes, they have told me that the response is not all that great, or what it was hyped up to be. As I mentioned in another post previously, when asked the why the customer won’t buy the boat, some say that on our inland lakes, they. Are getting banned by either thenlake association or the DEQ/DNR primarily due to waterfront or shoreline damage from the wakes produced. Another reason is that maynare saying they would rather have a used brand name wakeboat. Last reason I was told, is that it was pleasing to the eye of many. Personally I agree in that the looks are hideous...but hey I also don’t tlike thenlook of the newer bowrider period...with the “almost pontoon” like bow seating area..
            One of the reasons I looked elsewhere than Bayliner for my new boat was exactly that reason - looks. Bayliner made a decision to value usability over style on their newest generation of boats, and given the market, I can't say as though I blame them. But the VRs are "high riders" in terms of freeboard and overall height, and it means they don't fit into suburban garages like my new boat will. They are also, to my eye, really awkward from some angles, the VR6 being the worst offender. I think Bayliner needs to go back to work on the styling department. A great case in point is the Element E21 with the windshield. It just looks like they never even bothered.

            I want a traditional V hull with a classic point to the bow.

            And the shoreline damage is a great point, and something I also share concern on. Bayliner and Heyday are HQ'd in Knoxville, and they have some really large lake systems down there where wake boats can and are used to their full potential. Here in the midwest, however, we have smaller lake chains and my home waters simply aren't a great place to go wake surfing....and make life hell for the rest of the people who aren't doing that and just want to enjoy the water.

            The used vs. new boat thing is another axe for me to grind, and a pretty in-depth topic.

            In the automotive market, there is enough volume to absorb a significant number of people automatically buying used based on the advice they read in financial and internet forums. The marine market is much smaller, and very different. I really believe that the "buy used" mindset is currently and literally killing the industry, and driving up prices on used boats unnaturally. This issue is admittedly multi-faceted, and also the dealers share a large part of the blame because the cost model for boats is far from transparent, unlike a car. With a car, you can find the invoice price, get a good idea of selling price, and even find the model you want sitting on a dealers lot....all from your favorite recliner in your bathrobe. Boats? I had one website that actually turned out to be accurate, but I had to withstand some seriously inaccurate advice from online "experts" who later I found out were actually dealers. I had to drive over 100 miles away to even find an example of the boat I wanted to buy, and test drives were not in the cards. I am finding that to be more of the rule rather than the exception, by the way....some dealers are better than others, but if you are like me and you want a specific brand and model, you are confined to the dealer policies that sell that boat.

            I also feel buyers are somewhat at fault too, because they don't educate themselves or understand how the business model works. Some people look at a $35,000 used boat and a $50,000 MSRP new boat and automatically say "the new boat is too rich for my blood". I examined this pretty in depth for 20 - 23 foot bow riders. I found in my experience that used boats and new boats aren't significantly different (for the class of boat I am buying anyway) when you look at purchase price, financing, service, storage, etc, and you break it down to what it will actually cost me on a monthly basis from a cash flow perspective. Whatever I save on the front end with a used boat (both in actual price, financing terms, etc) gets more than made up by service and maintenance on the back end, and the limitations in financing options that comes from a used boat. Broken down to a monthly cost basis (which is ultimately all I really care about, even though I am NOT a "payment buyer"), the new boat and used boat is basically the same cost to me a month, with some minor variance that I can account for by looking at the benefits of buying new....warranty and choice being chief among those benefits. The trade off usually is you have to finance it a little longer, but not significantly longer. Some would say "gahh, financing, blah, I pay cash, upside down *crotch grab* GAHH!" but if you throw even 5% down, you can pretty well get around the depreciation curve issue.

            Anyway....unsolicited opinion from me.
            Matt Train
            BOC Site Team
            Chicagoland, IL

            Comment


              #7
              Matt...agreed on all points. If they ever start a “used boat factory” let me known and I will call them and order up a used boat EXACTLY how I want it, not just what is available out there.good point about the inability to get a “test” ride as well is a big issue I have heard before.....the dealers want to you to buy the boat, sign on the dotted line and then do a sea trial...
              Hell, Michigan (yes we really live in a city named "Hell" in Michigan)
              2012 BR 185 - 3.0 TKS
              1999 Chaparral 233 Sunesta Ltd., 5.0 Volvo
              1985 Harris Flotebote Classic 240
              1993 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR
              1993 Yamaha Waverunner III
              1995 Yamaha Waverunner III GP
              1995 Yamaha Waverunner III VXR PRO

              Comment


                #8
                Got some work to do on my post count but....

                IMO, teaming with Heydey was a desperate move to enter the wake-surfing market (inboard). Most people who have bow-riders can reproduce similar type wakes for boarding with ballast, but not surfing due to I/O safety. My next boat will be an in-board for this reason. 0.00% chance it will be a Heydey. However, I would consider another I/O if it had the Volvo Forward Drive. Crazy to think Mercury has not produced something similar.

                Michael
                Huntsville, Alabama
                2009 Bayliner 195 Sport 4.3 TKS
                1979 Basstracker 50hp Mercury "Duck Slayer"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mcolvert View Post
                  Got some work to do on my post count but....

                  IMO, teaming with Heydey was a desperate move to enter the wake-surfing market (inboard). Most people who have bow-riders can reproduce similar type wakes for boarding with ballast, but not surfing due to I/O safety. My next boat will be an in-board for this reason. 0.00% chance it will be a Heydey. However, I would consider another I/O if it had the Volvo Forward Drive. Crazy to think Mercury has not produced something similar.

                  Michael
                  1. Bayliner was going to enter the wakeboat market with or without Heyday. The marriage was one of convenience and opportunity, and the result (the Heyday WT series) is, like it or not, a much more compelling product than what I *heard* was on the drawing board.

                  2. Merc sits on their laurels. We've known this for nearly a decade. Nearly everything they have come out with is a poor, belated copy of a Volvo innovation. I was ready to blow the "leader" horn after driving the 4.5L V6 -it is absolutely excellent when it's paired with a Bravo 3 - but then I drove a boat with the Volvo Gen V engine and it was Game Over, Man. Volvo is lighter, has an aluminum block, standard closed cooling, easy flush, easy winterization, and direct fuel injection and VVT.

                  Merc doesn't care, and has enough market share (artificially) not to care...they're going to sell engines regardless of how "good" they are. They sell "old", "proven" designs for roughly the same price as their superior competition, and pad their bottom line.

                  Their outboards are REALLY damn good, by the way - I would probably choose a Verado I6 over damn near anything else - so I don't get the apathy towards the stern drives. The Alpha One is so damn old it should be approaching middle management. It's time for something new, Merc.
                  Matt Train
                  BOC Site Team
                  Chicagoland, IL

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by RobMick View Post
                    Matt...agreed on all points. If they ever start a “used boat factory” let me known and I will call them and order up a used boat EXACTLY how I want it, not just what is available out there.good point about the inability to get a “test” ride as well is a big issue I have heard before.....the dealers want to you to buy the boat, sign on the dotted line and then do a sea trial...
                    It's another reason why I see people bragging here on BOC about the used boat they bought and all the money they saved over new, and I want to smack them. This industry is not big enough to support mass-purchases of used boats when people COULD have bought new, and we would have a lot more choice if people would stop acting like they are being smart with their money by buying used.

                    If my experience is anything to go off of, all you need to do is put a little more sweat into the deal and you can get exactly what you want, brand new. There's a place for used boats if ALL you can buy is used...but if you can spend $30,000 or so on a used runabout, you can easily buy a new boat too.
                    Matt Train
                    BOC Site Team
                    Chicagoland, IL

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I don't agree about buying new. I can afford to buy new and the reason I can is because I let someone else absorb the loss you take buying new. And new is only for a few seconds and then its used and priced accordingly. I have bought a couple new but I have owned many boats and the vast majority has been used.
                      Doug
                      Started boating 1955
                      Number of boats owned 32
                      Bayliners
                      2655
                      2755
                      2850
                      3870 presently owned
                      Favorite boat. Toss up. 46' Chris Craft, 3870 Bayliner

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by dmcb View Post
                        I don't agree about buying new. I can afford to buy new and the reason I can is because I let someone else absorb the loss you take buying new. And new is only for a few seconds and then its used and priced accordingly. I have bought a couple new but I have owned many boats and the vast majority has been used.
                        Doug
                        I respect your opinion, but here's the bottom line: We don't have Bayliner cruisers anymore because of that attitude.

                        And no amount of reasoning fixes that.

                        Buy used cars and trucks if you must, but if you can buy new, then support our marine industry. They need a lot of help these days. There are buying tools out there that will help you get a good deal, and there's 20% markup in the MSRP these days. There's no reason why you can't bargain hard, put some cash down, and get ahead of the depreciation curve on a new boat.

                        None.
                        Matt Train
                        BOC Site Team
                        Chicagoland, IL

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                          I respect your opinion, but here's the bottom line: We don't have Bayliner cruisers anymore because of that attitude.

                          And no amount of reasoning fixes that.

                          Buy used cars and trucks if you must, but if you can buy new, then support our marine industry. They need a lot of help these days. There are buying tools out there that will help you get a good deal, and there's 20% markup in the MSRP these days. There's no reason why you can't bargain hard, put some cash down, and get ahead of the depreciation curve on a new boat.

                          None.
                          You NEVER get ahead of that curve, simply because it IS a depreciating asset, Finance 101.
                          Jeff & Tara
                          (And Ginger too)
                          Lake Havasu City, AZ

                          2000 Bayliner 3388
                          "GetAway"
                          Cummins 4bta 250s

                          In memory of Shadow, the best boat dog ever. Rest in peace, girl. July 2, 2010

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Matt, one reason boats are in short supply is because we went in to a deep recession that lasted for years. The middle class was the big losers and they are the people who buy new boats. You, I, or anyone else who could afford a new boat couldn't keep them afloat. It wasn't just Bayliner but many other boat mfg. bit the dust. Boats are not necessary and when money is tight they are the first to go.
                            Imo if you can't pay cash for a boat, you better look hard at buying one. I have had 32 plus boats and only one was financed and that was for a short time. They make it easy to finance a new boat, car, Rv. but that doesn't make it a good financial thing for a person. It only adds a lot to the cost.
                            Plus and this is a big plus, the boat mfg. simply priced themselves out of the market. The average middle class person with a family cannot afford the cost of a cruiser today. They are priced well beyond the ability of what middle class left can afford.
                            I always bargain hard for anything I purchase. It just means I write a smaller check and have something left over for another thing.
                            And no I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I was raised poor and earned everything we have with hard work and maybe some small amount of fiscal smarts.
                            You get a big jump on the depreciation curve by letting someone else take the first hit.
                            Doug
                            Started boating 1955
                            Number of boats owned 32
                            Bayliners
                            2655
                            2755
                            2850
                            3870 presently owned
                            Favorite boat. Toss up. 46' Chris Craft, 3870 Bayliner

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Here is another thought. If you buy new you don't always, maybe seldom get the boat you really want. Actually most don't yet know what they want. In any event you are forced to buy what you can afford to make payments on.
                              So you get trapped into many years of payments, maybe 15 or more and twofootitis hits in a year or two. Where are you now Matt? You have been on this forum long enough to have seen this many times over.
                              When you buy used you are able to get a larger boat, often for less than you pay new. I don't owe the boating industry a damn thing. Buy new to support the industry.You jest. I buy and spend my money to support me. What you suggest is a form of welfare for the industry. Buy something for that reason? You really can't mean that.
                              Years ago I went from an 18 foot to a 22 foot to a 30 foot to a 46 foot boat in a period of about 6 years. If I had bought them all new I would have been out of boating and broke long ago. Actually the 18' was new.
                              Doug
                              Started boating 1955
                              Number of boats owned 32
                              Bayliners
                              2655
                              2755
                              2850
                              3870 presently owned
                              Favorite boat. Toss up. 46' Chris Craft, 3870 Bayliner

                              Comment

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