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    Element XL towball weight

    I'm looking at replacing my tow vehicle, but the vehicle I'm most interested in has the limitation of 100kg towball weight. My boat is some distance away, so I'm hoping someone has been through the same process and can advise me of the actual weight to save me a trip.
    I have an 2015 Element XL, 115hp Mercury on a Karavan trailer.
    can anyone help?
    Peter Walter-Smith
    Riverport of Goolwa, South Australia
    2014 Bayliner Element XL
    115HP Mercury EFI

    #2
    For non metric people 100kg = 220 lbs
    Present Boat- 2018 VR5 4.5/200hp Mercruiser
    Last Boat- 1998 Capri 1950CL 3.0 Mercruiser

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by greebo View Post
      I'm looking at replacing my tow vehicle, but the vehicle I'm most interested in has the limitation of 100kg towball weight. My boat is some distance away, so I'm hoping someone has been through the same process and can advise me of the actual weight to save me a trip.
      I have an 2015 Element XL, 115hp Mercury on a Karavan trailer.
      can anyone help?
      10 to 15 percent of the trailer wait is supposed to be on the ball. That boat all by itself weighs around 2000 lbs. (907kg)
      When you add a tank of gas, an anchor, all the misc stuff, and the trailer weight...….you may exceed the 100kg limit.
      Be very careful.
      Present Boat- 2018 VR5 4.5/200hp Mercruiser
      Last Boat- 1998 Capri 1950CL 3.0 Mercruiser

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by vr5200 View Post
        10 to 15 percent of the trailer wait is supposed to be on the ball. That boat all by itself weighs around 2000 lbs. (907kg)
        When you add a tank of gas, an anchor, all the misc stuff, and the trailer weight...….you may exceed the 100kg limit.
        Be very careful.
        That's what I figured. From what I can find on the web the total mass is about 1245kg (boat and trailer).Obviously 10% would be 125kg. But European recommendations seem to be around 5 to 8% rather than the 10% general rule here and in the US. I think because they tend to tow at lower speeds. I only tow short distances and wouldn't exceed 80km/h (50 mph) but to be safe I don't want to exceed manufacturers recommendations. I might be able to adjust the towball weight with judicious loading behind the axle. I guess I was hopeful that someone knew the figures. Seems like I'll have to drive down and weigh it myself with bathroom scales to get a base figure in the next few days.
        As a matter of interest, the vehicle I'm looking at is a diesel Kia Sportage, towing limit 1900kg but with a 100kg towball weight limit in Australia.
        Peter Walter-Smith
        Riverport of Goolwa, South Australia
        2014 Bayliner Element XL
        115HP Mercury EFI

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by greebo View Post

          That's what I figured. From what I can find on the web the total mass is about 1245kg (boat and trailer).Obviously 10% would be 125kg. But European recommendations seem to be around 5 to 8% rather than the 10% general rule here and in the US. I think because they tend to tow at lower speeds. I only tow short distances and wouldn't exceed 80km/h (50 mph) but to be safe I don't want to exceed manufacturers recommendations. I might be able to adjust the towball weight with judicious loading behind the axle. I guess I was hopeful that someone knew the figures. Seems like I'll have to drive down and weigh it myself with bathroom scales to get a base figure in the next few days.
          As a matter of interest, the vehicle I'm looking at is a diesel Kia Sportage, towing limit 1900kg but with a 100kg towball weight limit in Australia.
          I wonder if the lower ball European ball number is because many of those vehicles are lighter and have a shorter wheelbase than the average vehicle in the US.
          That has me wondering what the US Kia Sportage can tow.......but I don't think we have a diesel and on a diesel SUV I presume the suspension is different since a diesel engine weighs more than a gas engine.
          Present Boat- 2018 VR5 4.5/200hp Mercruiser
          Last Boat- 1998 Capri 1950CL 3.0 Mercruiser

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by vr5200 View Post

            I wonder if the lower ball European ball number is because many of those vehicles are lighter and have a shorter wheelbase than the average vehicle in the US.
            That has me wondering what the US Kia Sportage can tow.......but I don't think we have a diesel and on a diesel SUV I presume the suspension is different since a diesel engine weighs more than a gas engine.
            It's not what you can PULL. It's what you can STOP. When they calculate the tow limits of a vehicle, the braking capability is usually the deciding factor. Hell, I can PULL my Element E16 with a riding lawn mower. But I sure as heck can't STOP it once it gets rolling good.

            This is why you'll often see 2 different tow limit numbers. One for a trailer without brakes and one for a trailer with brakes.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by CparkerE16 View Post

              It's not what you can PULL. It's what you can STOP. When they calculate the tow limits of a vehicle, the braking capability is usually the deciding factor. Hell, I can PULL my Element E16 with a riding lawn mower. But I sure as heck can't STOP it once it gets rolling good.

              This is why you'll often see 2 different tow limit numbers. One for a trailer without brakes and one for a trailer with brakes.
              He is well under his 1900 kg max weight.....his issue is tongue weight...……..too much can cause the combo to fishtail and jackknife if pushed to the extreme......but I am not convinced that if he is just a little bit over the relatively low value of 220 lbs that it would cause problem.

              In the old days we would install air shocks on a RWD sedan if the rear end sagged a bit, but we were still safely allowed to tow the load. But those cars had a much longer wheelbase.
              Present Boat- 2018 VR5 4.5/200hp Mercruiser
              Last Boat- 1998 Capri 1950CL 3.0 Mercruiser

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by vr5200 View Post

                I wonder if the lower ball European ball number is because many of those vehicles are lighter and have a shorter wheelbase than the average vehicle in the US.
                That has me wondering what the US Kia Sportage can tow.......but I don't think we have a diesel and on a diesel SUV I presume the suspension is different since a diesel engine weighs more than a gas engine.
                I wonder the same too.
                I just did an internet search that showed US specs as 1650lb ( about 749kg) which is our unbraked tow capacity. A petrol (gas) Sportage here has a 2.4 litre motor with a braked tow capacity of 1500kg. But it still has the same 100kg tow ball limitation. I am also considering that version. I have concerns re towing off boat ramps with a cvt and there are really only few options here with a traditional auto in a mid-size SUV with a half way decent towing capacity.
                I don't think stopping really comes into the equation in this case. Unbraked tow capacity by law here can't exceed 749kg. The Karavan trailer has hydraulic over ride disc brakes fitted that are OK here for up to 2000kg. So I'm all right there. I think the only real concern is my ball weight, which I'll have to check.
                An 8% towball weight would be just under 100kg based on a theoretical 1245kg total trailer mass, so I'm close to what is required.
                Perhaps I can achieve the required ratio by moving my boat slightly rearwards on the trailer, or maybe the axle is capable of being repositioned to redistribute the load. I can't really consider any options until I get an opportunity to weigh the trailer tongue to see what the actual figures are.
                Peter Walter-Smith
                Riverport of Goolwa, South Australia
                2014 Bayliner Element XL
                115HP Mercury EFI

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by greebo View Post

                  I wonder the same too.
                  I just did an internet search that showed US specs as 1650lb ( about 749kg) which is our unbraked tow capacity. A petrol (gas) Sportage here has a 2.4 litre motor with a braked tow capacity of 1500kg. But it still has the same 100kg tow ball limitation. I am also considering that version. I have concerns re towing off boat ramps with a cvt and there are really only few options here with a traditional auto in a mid-size SUV with a half way decent towing capacity.
                  I don't think stopping really comes into the equation in this case. Unbraked tow capacity by law here can't exceed 749kg. The Karavan trailer has hydraulic over ride disc brakes fitted that are OK here for up to 2000kg. So I'm all right there. I think the only real concern is my ball weight, which I'll have to check.
                  An 8% towball weight would be just under 100kg based on a theoretical 1245kg total trailer mass, so I'm close to what is required.
                  Perhaps I can achieve the required ratio by moving my boat slightly rearwards on the trailer, or maybe the axle is capable of being repositioned to redistribute the load. I can't really consider any options until I get an opportunity to weigh the trailer tongue to see what the actual figures are.
                  A couple of thoughts come to mind...........
                  Those CVT's are delicate compared to a traditional multispeed transmission with internal clutches/bands/drums...…..I do hope your towing is over short distances without any major grades.
                  Some CVT fluid actually becomes (on purpose) very thick when under high pressure. Even if your CVT fluid is lifetime, you may need to change it more frequently to keep it from getting damaged. You are going to have a heart attack when you see how much some OEM CVT fluid costs.....do not deviate and use any aftermarket CVT fluid.

                  Yes, you might be able to make a trailer adjustment (not radical) in case the tongue weight is just a little bit too heavy.

                  If moving the boat back renders the transom tie downs useless you can buy a big adjustable band to run across/over the rear of the boat and attach to 2 spots on the trailer. You may have to add an extra eye on each side in just the right spot on each side to use the band.
                  Present Boat- 2018 VR5 4.5/200hp Mercruiser
                  Last Boat- 1998 Capri 1950CL 3.0 Mercruiser

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi greebo. Nice to see your posts.

                    Unfortunately, my boat is in storage for the winter while your summer is just beginning.

                    My only contribution here would be for you to make sure that all is legal. Accidents happen when you don’t expect them and the responsibility can quickly turn against you if your setup is not up to manufacture standards. So, it’s not only important that your vehicle can do the job, it’s also important that it does it legally.

                    Take care,
                    on and off the water

                    Oakplank
                    Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
                    2014 Bayliner Element with Mercury 60 HP EFI Big Foot OB
                    12 foot aluminum fishing boat

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by vr5200 View Post

                      A couple of thoughts come to mind...........
                      Those CVT's are delicate compared to a traditional multispeed transmission with internal clutches/bands/drums...…..I do hope your towing is over short distances without any major grades.
                      Some CVT fluid actually becomes (on purpose) very thick when under high pressure. Even if your CVT fluid is lifetime, you may need to change it more frequently to keep it from getting damaged. You are going to have a heart attack when you see how much some OEM CVT fluid costs.....do not deviate and use any aftermarket CVT fluid.

                      Yes, you might be able to make a trailer adjustment (not radical) in case the tongue weight is just a little bit too heavy.

                      If moving the boat back renders the transom tie downs useless you can buy a big adjustable band to run across/over the rear of the boat and attach to 2 spots on the trailer. You may have to add an extra eye on each side in just the right spot on each side to use the band.
                      Thanks, this is exactly the reason I am looking at a new vehicle.
                      Currently I have a Mitsubishi ASX with a CVT. Its rated at 1300kg so is legal (just). Although I only tow very short distances to launch and retrieve, i have concerns as to what strains I put on the transmission when retrieving, to say nothing of the deficiencies of front wheel drive on steep slippery boat ramps.
                      Both the Kia's I'm looking at here have conventional auto transmissions and all wheel drive.
                      And Oakplank, you must realize that by virtue of my previous occupation I am very mindful of legal and safety issues.
                      I think I've got a real good reason to go to Goolwa and do some weighing of the trailer. I think its also about time the mulloway will be schooling in The Coorong so two birds with the same stone.
                      Another interesting fact, the Kia's sister (Hyundai Tuscon) has 1800kg tow capacity with 140kg tow ball for the diesel version which has a conventional auto, but there isn't a petrol (gas) motor with a conventional auto, only CVT and DCT's so are not suitable for my needs. The Tuscon diesel is also a fair bit dearer but I might have to go that way if I can't solve the ball weight dilemma.
                      Peter Walter-Smith
                      Riverport of Goolwa, South Australia
                      2014 Bayliner Element XL
                      115HP Mercury EFI

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Is using a weight distribution hitch a possible solution? That takes weight off the ball but transfers it through the entire vehicle.

                        I would go that route before adding weight to rear of boat as that makes it an unstable pull at any speed.
                        2008 H210SS Four Winns
                        Volvo Penta 5.7 GISX
                        Prior: 1997 2050SS Bayliner
                        Brad / Texas Gulf Coast

                        Comment


                          #13
                          A weight distribution hitch might be a solution but not sure how it would cope with the folding drawbar.
                          I guess until I get actual figures I won't know.
                          I must say that in its current state the trailer tows in a very stable manner. I am very mindful of the consequences of speed when towing (or stopping) and have a self imposed limit of about 90k/h (say 55mph). My rig would be slightly heavier at the rear than the norm as I have a 90 litre (24 US gallons) petrol (gas) capacity and that would obviously have some effect on the tow ball weight (lighten it somewhat). And of course a boat trailer with its length and rearward placed axle is normally a pretty stable configuration as well.
                          (Hey wouldn't it be be simpler to have a standard system of weights and measures?
                          While we are at it standard nomenclature and spelling would help as well.)
                          Anyway I'll get some accurate figures and see where that leads me.
                          I'll post them here when I get them.
                          Regards Peter
                          Peter Walter-Smith
                          Riverport of Goolwa, South Australia
                          2014 Bayliner Element XL
                          115HP Mercury EFI

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'd be very careful about being too light on the tow ball (we call it "tongue weight"). I know your specs read differently from ours but if you've ever seen a trailer start to fishtail because it was too light on the ball, it's frightening. And EXTREMELY hard to recover from if you've never experienced it. Recovery is even harder if your trailer doesn't have brakes.
                            Seriously.... I wouldn't straddle the edge on this. It's a fine line you're drawing and crossing it even once is a danger to you, your passengers, and anyone around you on the road.

                            Oh and on a practical note... I used to have a Hyundai Santa Fe. 6 cyl, front wheel drive, with factory tow package. Pulling a pontoon boat that had me almost exactly at the tow limit of the vehicle. Putting the boat IN the water was no problem. Getting it OUT of the water was an adventure.

                            I'm now driving a Silverado with an 8cyl and 4 wheel drive. MUCH better

                            Comment


                            • TX H210 SS
                              TX H210 SS commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I agree with this totally.....those tongue compression brakes are useless if trailer starts the fishtailing.

                              Only a controller override where you can bump trailer brakes only will get you out of that.

                              In may be preaching to the choir, but that single axle is set that far back to allow for 60 percent of weight of load to be in front of axle. Shifting weight to rear isnt a safe answer. In my opinion, if answer can be made at the hitch then a larger hitch weight capacity vehicle is needed.

                            #15
                            If dead set on that vehicle.....I would sell trailer and get a tandem fitted for the boat. That would solve issue, but may be cheaper to upgrade vehicle.

                            I got a Ram 4x4 with 10,000 lb tow capacity and still had to make alterations to get the tow ride how I wanted it.....loaded boat and trailer is 5000 tops...had to add airbags to stop the truck from squatting. Being you would be maxing or exceeding max hitch weight....that may be another issue to correct with your vehicle choice. My issue was the new model Rams have coil springs in rear instead of leaf springs. They claimed it was a new innovation!....I told salesman, yeah it's a new innovation...coils just like the 1968 Chevrolet truck we had
                            2008 H210SS Four Winns
                            Volvo Penta 5.7 GISX
                            Prior: 1997 2050SS Bayliner
                            Brad / Texas Gulf Coast

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