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Short sea trial today, (some engine issues)

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    Short sea trial today, (some engine issues)

    Well, I went out in C-ya with my father- and brother-in-law this evening. I buffed her out above the waterline Friday and yesterday, put the new name on her and she and I shared a drink. After getting the old gas out and a new starting battery in, she fires right up.





    "Tinkbug" is my youngest daughter's nickname. It evolved from Tinkerbell to stinkbug with a few variations in between. She has been "Tinkbug" for the last couple of years, so since it stuck, I thought I would honor her with it on the boat. Plus it was my way to try to get her to like the boat. Maybe. She is 7 and autistic (very mild), but she isn't sure she will like the boat.

    I still need to change the oil in the engine and outdrive, but I had to get the engine fired up to get the oil warm. New plugs and wires will go in. The only issue I had this evening was the locking bar on the outdrive didn't release when I tried to raise it when we put the boat on the trailer at the ramp. I had found a spring loose on it and put it back in place. That spring brings the little bar back up. I think that serves to keep the outdrive in place when in reverse. What is the correct way to get it to release at the ramp? Is the linkage out of adjustment? Sorry for no pictures but I will get one or two tomorrow. It was pretty close to dark when we got back home. I wanted to go to the ramp when there would be very few people there. Good thing, too! Docking was, shall we say... interesting. Fwd, rev, fwd, rev, steer, bump... I remembered the old saying, only go as fast as you want to hit. I was trying to go starboard side to on a dock that was into the current (very light), but ended up port side to on the dock to the left. Loading onto the trailer was interesting, as well. Guides will be added soon! Roller trailer and strakes on the bottom that have to be in just the right position. I may need to adjust the rollers out a bit.

    Can we say wandering steering? I knew we could! Wow, was she all over the river at low speed. She is also very sensitive to loading, but then again, I only have about 15 gallons of gas. My b-i-l would step around over the engine and she would list back and forth. Gonna have to keep that in mind. His 17' bass boat is not nearly that sensitive. He and I can walk all around on it and it barely moves.

    It was darn nice to get her on the water for the first time, though. I was pretty proud. My family and I are looking forward to making some good memories. She may not be our last boat, but she is our first.
    Justin
    1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
    AQ225D w/ 280
    MMSI 338355691
    St. Joseph, Michigan

    #2
    I’m jealous about the boat ride. One thing about about a boat, it’s always something.
    P/C Pete
    Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
    1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
    Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
    MMSI 367770440

    Comment


    • builderdude
      builderdude commented
      Editing a comment
      Have no idea the things you speak of🤣

    #3
    One thing I forgot to mention was that the steering was very heavy when in Fwd, and very light in Rev. Any thoughts on that?
    Justin
    1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
    AQ225D w/ 280
    MMSI 338355691
    St. Joseph, Michigan

    Comment


      #4
      ..................
      Originally posted by C-ya View Post
      I still need to change the oil in the engine and outdrive, but I had to get the engine fired up to get the oil warm. New plugs and wires will go in.
      NOTE: the 280 s/p drive requires 30W engine oil..... not heavy gear oil.
      Heavy gear oil can cause damage to the lower gear unit's slinger pump drive pins. If the drive pins were to shear off, you will loose the slinger pump action, of which will lead to upper gear unit over-heating.

      If you were in the warm Florida waters, you can use 40W engine oil.



      The only issue I had this evening was the locking bar on the out drive didn't release when I tried to raise it when we put the boat on the trailer at the ramp. I had found a spring loose on it and put it back in place. That spring brings the little bar back up. I think that serves to keep the out drive in place when in reverse.
      Correct!
      You will have one center lift spring, and two latch hook over-centering springs.
      The center lift spring keeps the latch hooks up against the set pin.
      The two over-centering springs are there to allow the latch hooks to release in the event of an "impact".


      What is the correct way to get it to release at the ramp? Is the linkage out of adjustment?
      As the mechanical Lift Out unit lowers (extends) the vice rod, the pressure plate at the bottom depresses against what VP calls a thrust sleeve.
      That thrust sleeve depresses the linkage rod that releases the latch hooks from the "set pin".
      Make sure that the pressure plate and thrust sleeve are OK.



      Can we say wandering steering? I knew we could! Wow, was she all over the river at low speed.
      Yep, the ole low speed wondering. Try to NOT over-correct!


      One thing I forgot to mention was that the steering was very heavy when in Fwd, and very light in Rev. Any thoughts on that?
      When you say "heavy", do you mean that the helm wheel pulls to Port or Starboard?

      Your 280 lower unit has a very effective trim fin/torque tab.
      If the drive pulls towards Port, and although it may seem to be counter-intuitive, move the trim fin/torque tab towards Port.
      If it pulls towards Stbd, move the trim fin/torque tab towards Stbd.

      Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
      2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
      Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
      Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
      Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

      Comment


        #5
        My comments and pictures below.

        Originally posted by 2850Bounty View Post
        Correct!
        You will have one center lift spring, and two latch hook over-centering springs.
        The center lift spring keeps the latch hooks up against the set pin.
        The two over-centering springs are there to allow the latch hooks to release in the event of an "impact".


        What is the correct way to get it to release at the ramp? Is the linkage out of adjustment?
        As the mechanical Lift Out unit lowers (extends) the vice rod, the pressure plate at the bottom depresses against what VP calls a thrust sleeve.
        That thrust sleeve depresses the linkage rod that releases the latch hooks from the "set pin".
        Make sure that the pressure plate and thrust sleeve are OK.


        OK, picture of the linkage and latch. What do I adjust or how do I make sure it moves enough to unlatch when I try to raise the drive?





        The middle spring was off and I put it back on the other day when I was changing the anode.

        One thing I forgot to mention was that the steering was very heavy when in Fwd, and very light in Rev. Any thoughts on that?
        When you say "heavy", do you mean that the helm wheel pulls to Port or Starboard?

        Your 280 lower unit has a very effective trim fin/torque tab.
        If the drive pulls towards Port, and although it may seem to be counter-intuitive, move the trim fin/torque tab towards Port.
        If it pulls towards Stbd, move the trim fin/torque tab towards Stbd.

        No, the steering effort is high when going forward slowly. When in the reverse, the steering effort is very light.

        My trim tab is turned in a stbd/port orientation from front to rear and I have a RH prop. I noticed someone else who posted a picture of their drive/prop setup with a LH prop and theirs was pointing the same way. Not sure which way is correct but with prop walk, I can't see both of them being correct unless they are effective when at speeds where prop walk isn't too much concern.

        Justin
        1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
        AQ225D w/ 280
        MMSI 338355691
        St. Joseph, Michigan

        Comment


          #6
          ...........
          Originally posted by C-ya View Post
          My comments and pictures below.

          In your first image, the thrust sleeve lock nut is turned all the way onto the push rod.
          Try backing it off some, as to increase the stroke of the push rod.

          Another common issues is, that the bore for the lock nut is not quite deep enough, preventing the thrust sleeve from having enough travel.
          If you pull things apart, take a drill bit and slightly deepen the bore.


          In your second image, your latch hooks have lost their nice crisp, sharp points.
          Again, if you pull things apart, either replace them, or if you can build the material up via TIG weld, and then reshape them, they will be OK. .



          No, the steering effort is high when going forward slowly. When in the reverse, the steering effort is very light.
          You may have a rust damaged pivot tube and/or bushing/bearing issue.

          My trim tab is turned in a stbd/port orientation from front to rear and I have a RH prop.
          You cannot have both!
          The trim fin/torque tab will be turned one direction or the other, depending on which direction you are experiencing prop walk/steer torque.



          I noticed someone else who posted a picture of their drive/prop setup with a LH prop and theirs was pointing the same way. Not sure which way is correct but with prop walk, I can't see both of them being correct unless they are effective when at speeds where prop walk isn't too much concern.
          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

          Comment


            #7
            Originally posted by 2850Bounty View Post
            My trim tab is turned in a stbd/port orientation from front to rear and I have a RH prop.
            You cannot have both!
            The trim fin/torque tab will be turned one direction or the other, depending on which direction you are experiencing prop walk/steer torque.
            I was talking about its orientation when looking along its length. The front right corner is to stbd, the left rear corner is to port.



            Justin
            1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
            AQ225D w/ 280
            MMSI 338355691
            St. Joseph, Michigan

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by C-ya View Post

              I was talking about its orientation when looking along its length. The front right corner is to stbd, the left rear corner is to port.
              When talking about a trim fin/torque tab (and it's direction/orientation), our concern is what the trailing edge does to the water flow.

              As per how yours is adjusted now, it is adjusted as to correct a Port side steer torque.


              .
              Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
              2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
              Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
              Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
              Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

              Comment


              • C-ya
                C-ya commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks. I'll pay attention to which way it pulls, if any.

              #9
              I took the boat out Saturday evening after a great morning of fishing on my brother-in-law's boat. Fifty-six fish total between two adults and an 8 year old.

              Anyway, it wasn't a great outing. The previous weekend when we went out, I had put in fresh plugs with the old wires, cap, and rotor still in. It ran pretty darn good. No stumbling, no almost dieing when in between Fwd and Rev. This past Saturday, not so much. Before we went out, I changed the plugs to the set I wanted in (NGK), pre-gapped at 0.030". The book says 0.028". Are they that sensitive? It stumbled and idled rougher than it did before. I also changed the wires, cap, and rotor. It died a couple of times while near the dock, and it seemed to be running richer as I could smell the exhaust a bit more than last week. I had to "floor it" to get it to start twice after it died.

              The worst part was once we got out to the big lake. There were some decent rollers, 4-6 feet, but not too close, so we ventured past the pier heads and turned south to follow the NW wind and be somewhat sheltered. Rollers coming from behind but a nice ride. I advanced the throttle and about 2,500 rpm, it started stumbling. I pulled back to 2K and the engine smoothed out some but it didn't feel like we were accelerating. Nothing from the engine when called upon to go to higher rpms and no more speed. It also seemed like it didn't really want to go much above 2,500. I put a new prop on to replace the prop that was on it with the nicely rolled edges so I don't think it is a spun hub. Could something in the flywheel/flexplate be bad (vibration damper)? The drive itself? We were able to make "no wake speed" in and out from the dock at 1,400-1,600 rpm with no problem.

              Steering was still "heavy" but not as much wandering with the tabs down. Also Rick, the adjuster nut re-adjusted itself back down so I had to go in the water to release the drive to get it to raise for trailering. Now I see why that center spring was off! At least I knew what to do this time.

              What is the normal range of throttle lever movement to get carb linkage movement? Mine will go to about 45° before the linkage starts to move. Is that normal or not? I'm not sure if the linkage is out of adjustment or if the cable is stretched or some other issue.

              Thanks for any thoughts. The boat shop that I want to use is 3.5 weeks out for repairs so anything I can check may be helpful and maybe even avoid a service visit.
              Justin
              1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
              AQ225D w/ 280
              MMSI 338355691
              St. Joseph, Michigan

              Comment


                #10
                Originally posted by C-ya View Post
                I took the boat out Saturday evening after a great morning of fishing on my brother-in-law's boat. Fifty-six fish total between two adults and an 8 year old.

                Anyway, it wasn't a great outing. The previous weekend when we went out, I had put in fresh plugs with the old wires, cap, and rotor still in. It ran pretty darn good. No stumbling, no almost dieing when in between Fwd and Rev. This past Saturday, not so much. Before we went out, I changed the plugs to the set I wanted in (NGK), pre-gapped at 0.030". The book says 0.028". Are they that sensitive? It stumbled and idled rougher than it did before. I also changed the wires, cap, and rotor. It died a couple of times while near the dock, and it seemed to be running richer as I could smell the exhaust a bit more than last week. I had to "floor it" to get it to start twice after it died.

                The worst part was once we got out to the big lake. There were some decent rollers, 4-6 feet, but not too close, so we ventured past the pier heads and turned south to follow the NW wind and be somewhat sheltered. Rollers coming from behind but a nice ride. I advanced the throttle and about 2,500 rpm, it started stumbling. I pulled back to 2K and the engine smoothed out some but it didn't feel like we were accelerating. Nothing from the engine when called upon to go to higher rpms and no more speed. It also seemed like it didn't really want to go much above 2,500. I put a new prop on to replace the prop that was on it with the nicely rolled edges so I don't think it is a spun hub. Could something in the flywheel/flexplate be bad (vibration damper)? The drive itself? We were able to make "no wake speed" in and out from the dock at 1,400-1,600 rpm with no problem.

                Steering was still "heavy" but not as much wandering with the tabs down. Also Rick, the adjuster nut re-adjusted itself back down so I had to go in the water to release the drive to get it to raise for trailering. Now I see why that center spring was off! At least I knew what to do this time.

                What is the normal range of throttle lever movement to get carb linkage movement? Mine will go to about 45° before the linkage starts to move. Is that normal or not? I'm not sure if the linkage is out of adjustment or if the cable is stretched or some other issue.

                Thanks for any thoughts. The boat shop that I want to use is 3.5 weeks out for repairs so anything I can check may be helpful and maybe even avoid a service visit.
                "I also changed the wires, cap, and rotor. It died a couple of times while near the dock, and it seemed to be running richer as I could smell the exhaust a bit more than last week. I had to "floor it" to get it to start twice after it died."
                Please recheck the firing order and wire assignment as well as the ignition timing.
                Also check to see if one plug is not firing.
                Northport NY

                Comment


                • C-ya
                  C-ya commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I'll try to check the plugs and wires this afternoon before it rains. I'll have to dig my timing light out.

                #11
                C-ya
                You had an engine that was running suitably the prior weekend from idle to planning speeds with no issues.
                One week later the same engine stumbles, will not start well, lacks rpm, lacks power and appears it is 'rich' in fuel.
                I really doubt its the plugs unless they are out of spec on heat and/or reach by a longshot.
                That leaves the work you did with the wires, cap and rotor between the time you had a good running engine and now.

                "Rich" might mean its not firing on one plug or more or they are wired on the wrong cylinders (two wires swapped).
                Similarly lack of power and lack of rpm could indicate a miss or cross wired cylinders or some timing changes.
                If it were me I would completely retrace the work i did in between the time the boat ran well and now. Good luck
                Northport NY

                Comment


                  #12
                  smitty477, good point on the wires. I did them one at a time, but I pulled the old wire off the old cap and put the new wire on the new cap. I double checked every one, but I could have swapped 2. I agree that it should still idle and run good like you are saying. I may try the old plugs for grins and giggles. They are Champion so I didn't want to leave them in for long knowing I had NGKs coming.

                  As far as planing, I didn't take it above 1,600 rpm the first time out. It was a just a "does it float, start, stop, turn, go in fwd and rev" type trip on the water. No high speed, no trip to the big lake, just a couple circles on the river by the dock. Starting was super easy the first trip, and it isn't terribly hard now on a cold start.
                  Justin
                  1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
                  AQ225D w/ 280
                  MMSI 338355691
                  St. Joseph, Michigan

                  Comment


                    #13
                    I’ve added “engine issues” to your title.
                    Questions:
                    1-have you ever had the boat up on plane with an rpm range around 3200-3800?
                    2-have you done a compression test on this engine?
                    3-how old is the fuel in the tank?
                    4-do you have a fuel/water separator filter installed and has it been changed recently?
                    5- have the points/condenser been replaced and dwell set?
                    6- does the mechanical advance in the distributor work correctly?
                    Dave
                    Edmonds, WA
                    "THE FIX"
                    '93 2556
                    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

                    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                    Misc. projects thread
                    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                    Comment


                      #14
                      See answers in the quote.

                      Originally posted by builderdude View Post
                      I’ve added “engine issues” to your title.
                      Questions:
                      1-have you ever had the boat up on plane with an rpm range around 3200-3800?
                      No. It has only been in the water twice since I have owned it.

                      2-have you done a compression test on this engine?
                      No

                      3-how old is the fuel in the tank?
                      About two weeks. I siphoned about 30 gallons of stinky, yellow fuel (all that was in the tank) and added 15 gallons of no ethanol 91 octane.

                      4-do you have a fuel/water separator filter installed and has it been changed recently?
                      Just a fuel filter with a new element. Looks stock, mounted on the side of the engine above the fuel pump.

                      5- have the points/condenser been replaced and dwell set?
                      Pertronix

                      6- does the mechanical advance in the distributor work correctly?
                      Unknown. I haven't put a light on it yet.
                      Justin
                      1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
                      AQ225D w/ 280
                      MMSI 338355691
                      St. Joseph, Michigan

                      Comment


                        #15
                        I just checked the firing order. It is correct, but number one is 180° out from where it "normally" is. I don't really want to pull the distributor and rotate everything as I don't know where my oil pump priming tool is and I don't have an old dizzy handy.
                        Justin
                        1984 2150 Ciera "C-ya"
                        AQ225D w/ 280
                        MMSI 338355691
                        St. Joseph, Michigan

                        Comment


                        • builderdude
                          builderdude commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Doesn’t really matter where the distributor is clocked as long as firing order is correct. 👍🏼
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