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TOPIC: Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 18 Sep 2017 21:50 #1

  • Gerd1ff
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Hi all,

Still getting comfortable in playing around with my 2000 Bayliner 2455 Ciera.
When being out yesterday at some point I almost felt like I was going to tip it over sideways and sink it.
I have dual prop and 5.7 engine.

Are there any maneuvers I need to avoid? Recommendations / warnings?

Is there a way to actually sink it by stupid maneuvers on a lake?
I only had one more person on and not loaded a lot.

Thank you :)

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Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 18 Sep 2017 21:57 #2

  • flyman219
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I think you need to drive and handle the boat accordingly. It's much more top heavy than a ski type hull. I would tend to error on the conservative side when taking on a cornering maneuver.

Mike

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2004 Bayliner 285 350 MPI Bravo III
2007 Bayliner 192 Discovery 3.0 135HP (sold)
2000 Ciera 2455 sold
Redmond, Washington
The one on the Left (Wet) Coast

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 18 Sep 2017 22:57 #3

  • Pcpete
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Now that you have learned some of the limits where you get uncomfortable with the boats attitude, don't do that. I'm not trying to be mean or make fun of you, most all of us know that point where maybe we are pushing the limit. Usually it's weather related, but sometimes you need to maneuver out of a situation, like when someone is not following the rules of the road and you have to suddenly change course to avoid a collision.
Can you swamp it or turn it over? If you try hard enough, I think you can. Are you going to accidentally do it? Not if you are being a responsible (and sober) skipper. That you are concerned is a good thing, the water is a dangerous playground. Sorry if I sound a bit old and probably too much like my, or most anybody's father, but I've checked both of those boxes.
You have a nice boat, enjoy it.

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P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
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Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 19 Sep 2017 05:05 #4

  • davesisk
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Ya know...we have several times made our way from Carolina Beach south on the Cape Fear River (toward Southport, NC or Bald Head Island, toward the ocean)...and in the case where the current is coming in but the winds are going out, we get some surprising following seas (ie. waves coming from behind the boat) going out toward the ocean from the river. As you may or may not know, following seas can be a little scary...they can lift the stern of some boats out of the water (taking the rudders partially out of the water, such that you have no steering), pointing the bow downward where it can plow into the water, and with the right frequency vs boat speed, actually cause a boat to capsize (surfing down a wave, end up turning sideways since you have no steering because the rudders aren't in the water, with the bow already near plowing into the water...it's definitely a white-knuckle kind of feeling, especially 10 feet or so up on a flybridge). When I feel the bow start to wander or the rudders feel like they might loose their grip, I 1) slow down (you want your boat speed to be quite a bit less than the wave speed...let the waves pass you), and 2) use the trim tabs to raise the bow a little (forcing more of the stern to stay more buried in the water).

Could following seas big enough capsize a 38 footer? You bet...they've capsized boats much bigger than that. What do you do? You recognize the situation you're in or about to be in, and you take corrective action well before you get into hot water.

Now, I know following seas aren't what you were asking about, but I'm just trying to make a point: If you are feeling uncomfortable with how the boat is reacting, then you probably should be. Take corrective action. An awefully good rule of thumb for when you don't know what to do is: slow down. (That way, if anything bad does happen, it'll happen a lot slower and with generally much less destructive results.)

My advice would be this: Go easy as you get to know the boat and it's limits, and stay well away from those limits. If you haven't taken any kind of boater safety class, go do that. That 24 footer is a fairly large, heavy, and powerful boat. You're the captain, and you can potentially do a lot of damage with something that size, weight, and power....and as the captain, you have a responsibility to keep your passengers safe, as well as yourself. The last thing you want is for a fun day on the water to turn into a disaster that could have been avoided.

Stay safe!

HTH,
Dave

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Last Edit: by davesisk.

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 19 Sep 2017 17:58 #5

  • Sea Q
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tipping a boat
Any boat can and its always good to know your limits before you get into that bag of doo .
I saw a 30 foot fish boat slow sink in a whirlpool up north so everything is possible
I had a large whirlpool form on the bow of our 90 footer had punch the power while the props had water to get thru as the boat listed 10 deg
You have to have your wits about you

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Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 19 Sep 2017 20:46 #6

  • Gerd1ff
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Thanks to all of you,

I'm fairly new to this but just a few comments from my side.

I only maneuver a boat when sober.

I will take a boating safety class.

When it almost tipped it was on a calm lake and I think I had the trip tabs too far one way and wanted to make a turn.
Now what I've noticed is that maneuvers are the opposite than on a car. If I am tipping to the right I actually need to turn to wheel to take a left turn. In a car this would ensure to roll over but due to the prop pointing the other direction this straightens me back up. Correct?

All of your advice is appreciated. I take no offense. There is always stuff to learn... and I like to learn!

Any recommendations on certain boating classes? I am sure there are plenty different ones out there...

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Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 19 Sep 2017 21:22 #7

  • pjumper
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Not sure how much experience you have boating. I've had new boaters on my boat who look terrified when the boat sways. Remember its like a cork in the water it will Bob and sway. On a calm lake you are quite safe on a 24 ft boat. It would be hard to flip. You need to get your sea legs. The boat will take more than you think.

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2000, Trophy 2359
Ontario/Florida

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 19 Sep 2017 23:19 #8

  • Centerline2
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Gerd1ff wrote: If I am tipping to the right I actually need to turn to wheel to take a left turn. In a car this would ensure to roll over but due to the prop pointing the other direction this straightens me back up. Correct?...


when accelerating, turning the wheel to the left should cause the boat to lean to the left, and vice versa when turning to the right....
there are only a few of scenarios that will allow the boat to tip to the outside on a turn, and that is, #1, being top heavy.. #2 turning away from a beam sea or wave... #3 trim tabs improperly adjusted, #4.. coming off plane and turning hard one way or the other, and especially when the stern wave catches up with you....

if under steady power running across calm water, and you turn the wheel and the boat leans any direction but into the turn, something is dangerously wrong.

when trimmed properly, the boat is very forgiving, but if its leaning outward on the turns, a wave could catch you and easily cause a broach or throw you from the helm....

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1989 Bayliner 2556, 5.7 OMC Cobra
Last Edit: by Centerline2.

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 20 Sep 2017 03:23 #9

  • builderdude
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Sounds like you may have had just one trim tab down while making an agressive turn, that scenario could be quite uncomfortable.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 20 Sep 2017 04:29 #10

  • Davidlyne
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+1. That would be my thoughts as well

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David
1999 Bayliner 1750 Capri. 3l Mercruiser Alpha

2014 Yamaha VX Cruiser
Last Edit: by Davidlyne.

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 21 Sep 2017 20:22 #11

  • Gerd1ff
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I guess I had no idea what a severe effect trim tabs can have lol.

I also think I need to grow some sea legs and realize the potential of my boat. At the same time I need to be respectful not to push it too far.........

Thank you for everybody's advice!

Actually one more question: having both trim tabs down or at least one on the wake surf side should get me a better wake, right?

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Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 21 Sep 2017 20:43 #12

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No, tabs down will lift the stern giving you less wake for surfing. Tabs up drive up and boat plowing will make a larger wake. More people in the stern will help also.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 21 Sep 2017 21:34 #13

  • davesisk
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Gerd1ff wrote: Actually one more question: having both trim tabs down or at least one on the wake surf side should get me a better wake, right?


Sounds like we've found the problem. ;) If you have the (for instance) the starboard (right) tab down/port (left) tab up, then turn to starboard (right) at a high speed, the down trim tab is going to interfere with the boat leaning into the turn like it should. Trim tabs lift the stern and push the boat up on plane...if you're wakeboarding, put both trim tabs up and let the boat plow along in the water.

HTH,
Dave

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Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 23 Sep 2017 12:20 #14

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2252 Ciera Express
I am also a new owner this summer. We have done all we can to get used to the handling and the movements of the boat. Whether that it movement we intended or movement created by moving water or current. One of the most difficult things was the trim tabs for me. I believe I understand them but I have learned that each time I have a significant changes in speed I reset them and start over. This is because I have found the tabs at one speed have a dramatically different effect than at another speed. Just ring to learn, understand and have safe fun.

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Kevin

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 23 Sep 2017 14:58 #15

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Agree, while I'm on plane the trim tab buttons are the most used device. I Bump those buttons constantly, not just for list control but also to force the bow down in rougher water.

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Dave
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.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Tip over and sink 2455 Ciera 23 Sep 2017 20:45 #16

  • Zarn
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As builderdude said he bumps the trim tab controler a lot of new to trim tabs or new to boating push the controler button for say 10seconds or until they feel the trim tab take affect then release they've gone to far and spend most of their time over correcting the list I leave the dock/ramp with tabs up and adjust the bow height using the trim on the the outdrive once the boat is on the plane you will find it lists to port unless you have duoprop due to prop torge that's when I bump the tabs to balance the boat and do very miner adjustments using trim tabs to get best boat speed v's engine rpm but I do as builderdude says bump the button wait for a bit if need to bump the button again.

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Daniel Drummond.
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Carbed 5.7 alpha one.
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