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TOPIC: filled crankcase with the garden hose

filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 14:30 #1

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What was supposed to be a quick run to get ready for the lake turned into a nightmare. I hooked up the hose to the water intake to run the boat, opened the valve and went to fire up the motor. While I was getting into the boat I fell off, broke my left wrist, and my wife ran me to the hospital.

Sooo, I forgot to shut the water off on my way to the ER. I didn't remember until I got home and heard the water running. I shut it off and climbed in, reached under with my good arm and pulled the oil drain plug and that is where it sits.

The trim was still up since I never made it to the dash. Water was dumping out of the dip stick tube. I am guessing that even though the hose wasn't on full bore, that it still hit a point where it built full pressure (90 lbs+) and something gave.


This makes for a really strange problem, I know. My Volvo Penta shop manual doesn't cover idiots filling the motor with water.

Here are my questions:

What gasket is the week point in this system (SB chevy/ VP 280 outdrive)? I am assuming I will probably need an intake gasket set and timing cover gasket set, and I doubt that it blew through a head gasket.

or, did my motor just fill from back flushing through the exhaust system (the outdrive was up)?

if the water pump isn't turning, does it build head pressure?

Any ideas or any help is appreciated. Normally, I wouldn't think twice about ripping the motor out and doing a complete overhaul, but like I said, I am one armed at the moment. More than getting ready for the lake I would just like to save what I can and keep from turning my motor into a rust ball. At very least I am going to give it three oil changes and disconnect the water pump so I can run it dry for a few minutes each time and try to get the residual water out. Time of course is of the essence and its been 2 days.


BTW, Hi, my name is Sean, site newbie, bla bla bla:(

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 14:51 #2

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SJ Bikesaws;311521 wrote: ... While I was getting into the boat I fell off, broke my left wrist, and my wife ran me to the hospital.


ouch - :hammer



SJ Bikesaws;311521 wrote: ... Here are my questions:

What gasket is the week point in this system (SB chevy/ VP 280 outdrive)? I am assuming I will probably need an intake gasket set and timing cover gasket set, and I doubt that it blew through a head gasket.


behind water pump? may have a cracked block?

SJ Bikesaws;311521 wrote: ... or, did my motor just fill from back flushing through the exhaust system (the outdrive was up)?


obviously the leg intake water has no direct pathway to the oil pan from the outdrive. even tilted if something gave way in the drive unit so as to allow intake water to flow into the exhaust path it would simply flow out the prop and not buidup in the engine.

SJ Bikesaws;311521 wrote: ...
if the water pump isn't turning, does it build head pressure?


i would say no it's a circulating pump not a pressure pump.

SJ Bikesaws;311521 wrote: ...
BTW, Hi, my name is Sean, site newbie, bla bla bla:(


welcome, yada, yada, yada

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:08 #3

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SJ Bikesaws;311521 wrote: What was supposed to be a quick run to get ready for the lake turned into a nightmare. I hooked up the hose to the water intake to run the boat, opened the valve and went to fire up the motor.


A little more information is required here.

How exactly did you hook up the hose?

What type of boat and motor?

You should be able to leave a hose running all day long and not end up with water bubbling out of the oil dipstick tube. Something else is obviously wrong here.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:30 #4

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I've had a hyrdolocked engine before(came off plane too fast then shut the engine down- it gulped in. I'll never do that again)Anyway, I pulled the plugs spit the water out, changed the oil and let it run for 45 mins. Then I changed the oil again and let it run 45 mins in between each. I did that 5 times in one day. That engine still runs like a champ.

good luck

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:32 #5

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OK, SBC.... Volvo drive... Correct?
Drive being UP certainly didn't help matters much. :hammer

You had water back up in the exhaust system and enter the non-running engine through a few open exhaust valves...... Correct?
So this water entered via a few cylinders and piston rings! Correct?

NOTE: Engine has not yet been run, correct?
If not, water/oil has not yet entered some components!
NOTE: if not yet run, you will not need to change the filter first time around!
You will not be able to remove all water from a single oil change!
When you run it for the first time, and after the first oil change, any residual water will now mix with the new oil.... sorry, but no way around this!

NOTE: Once run, you'll have water that needs to be removed from piston rings and cam follower internals...... it's going to require several oil changes.

Buy some inexpensive oil and filters.
Let it come up to operating temperature for each change.


I'd NOT disconnect any of the sea water system..... the Pump, Impeller or any portion of it.
Running this dry for any length of time will damage your rubber exhaust components and the exhaust bellows.
If you want to remove those items..... and run it "Dry"...... then short runs would be OK..... but SHORT runs only.
But this is a lot of work to do!
I'd not do this!



Since it did not run under load.... my guess is that it may survive just fine.


Sorry to hear about your wrist! Bummer!

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:36 #6

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As others I am not exactly sure how water would get from the cooling water intake on the drive to the motor. I'm guessing it's something stupid that would have been obvious with the water on.

I highly doubt the garden hose pressure would be enough to blow out any gaskets or seals on the motor, definitely not the head gaskets which are set up for combustion pressure.

I'd drain it ASAP from the oil pan and spray fogging oil wherever I could, perhaps blow some compressed air wherever I could too. When refilled with oil I'd add a healthy amount of mavel mystery oil or something similar for a bit of extra protection. You want to run it as soon as it's safely possible to dry everything out with heat.

Hope your wrist is ok.... can always get a motor but not a new wrist!

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:38 #7

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Mocoondo;311543 wrote: A little more information is required here.

How exactly did you hook up the hose?

What type of boat and motor?

You should be able to leave a hose running all day long and not end up with water bubbling out of the oil dipstick tube. Something else is obviously wrong here.


Closed the freshwater intake valve and screwed the hose into the T (like I always do). This is on a 85 1950 Bowrider, 305 chevy with a Volvo Penta 280 outdrive. Also, this was the first time this year for messing with the boat after being set up for the winter. I have had it for four or five years now but never had a problem like this, but I have never left the hose running on it for 5 hours either. I also pipe it full of antifreeze for the winter by funneling it into the hose connection and running it until I see green blow out of the outdrive (don't tell the E P A).

I know its an old boat but I am by no means a rich guy, I worked hard to buy this boat and I love owning it. I am sort of crushed by it right now (pun intended). If it needs a new motor then I will speed up the production of the 383 4 bolt motor I have tucked away for it.

I am grasping at straws. If I cant make an easy fix it will ruin my family vacation I had planned for the week following the 4th of July. I don't even care as much about the broke arm as I do the broke boat.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:47 #8

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BTW, thanks everyone for the replys.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:52 #9

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SJ Bikesaws;311563 wrote:

  1. Closed the freshwater intake valve and screwed the hose into the T (like I always do).

  2. I also pipe it full of antifreeze for the winter by funneling it into the hose connection and running it until I see green blow out of the outdrive (don't tell the E P A).

  3. I am grasping at straws. If I cant make an easy fix it will ruin my family vacation I had planned for the week following the 4th of July. I don't even care as much about the broke arm as I do the broke boat.

  1. I know these engine/drives inside/out.... I've not heard of a "fresh water intake valve" before! Can you explain?

  2. Very risky way to winterize your engine, IMO.... been discussed here many times! (Since it's summer now, this can be discussed in another thread if need be.)

  3. "Never fear..... the party is not over yet" .... I think that short of a broken wrist, the party is still on!

Did you read my previous post?

Get well too!

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 15:56 #10

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Nice looking boat.

Since you have a camera, can you take a photo of this fresh water intake valve that you speak of?

I've seen many different boats, but never one with such an arrangement.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:02 #11

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I'll bet you'll be fine. Water can get into the cylinders through the an open exhaust valve.

Pull the plugs. Turn the engine over a few rotations by hand. Drain the oil. Spray the cylinders with winterizing oil. Turn over a few more times by hand. reinstall plugs. Refill with oil and warm up, using the garden hose for cooling. Shut down and change the oil once more. Watch things for the next few days of operation.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:03 #12

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2850Bounty;311578 wrote:

  1. I know these engine/drives inside/out.... I've not heard of a "fresh water intake valve" before! Can you explain?

  2. Very risky way to winterize your engine, IMO.... been discussed here many times! (Since it's summer now, this can be discussed in another thread if need be.)

  3. "Never fear..... the party is not over yet" .... I think that short of a broken wrist, the party is still on!

Did you read my previous post?

Get well too!


Hmmm, its tough for me to explain the valve without a pic and I am by no means a boat expert. I don't know if they come with this arrangement or if it was added later by a previous owner. There is a 2 inch hose for the water intake between the outdrive and the pump, mine has a ball valve to shut off the intake from the outdrive completely, then in front of it has a tee with another ball valve to open from the garden hose. I like the system much better than the muffs I had to use on my first boats.

I did read your prev. posts, and I'm still hoping it is something stupid and simple. I also plan on doing something about it tonight.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:05 #13

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Mocoondo;311579 wrote: Nice looking boat.

Since you have a camera, can you take a photo of this fresh water intake valve that you speak of?

I've seen many different boats, but never one with such an arrangement.


I will, it will be a few hours and I will snap a pic when I go home for lunch.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:17 #14

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SJ Bikesaws;311589 wrote: Hmmm, its tough for me to explain the valve without a pic and I am by no means a boat expert. I don't know if they come with this arrangement or if it was added later by a previous owner. There is a 2 inch hose for the water intake between the outdrive and the pump, mine has a ball valve to shut off the intake from the outdrive completely, then in front of it has a tee with another ball valve to open from the garden hose. I like the system much better than the muffs I had to use on my first boats.


Ouch.

That's obviously an aftermarket install by a previous owner. Creative, but at the same time, one quick way of getting water into the wrong side of your engine, or cooking an engine should you accidentally leave the valve closed.

I'd follow Ricks instructions in terms of draining, refilling, running, draining, refilling, running until all traces of water is out of the engine.

Then I'd get a new hose from the drive to the pump and get rid of that shutoff valve arrangement. As you can see, nothing good can come of that. In the future, if you want to run your engine on the hose, pull the hose off the drive and stick the end into a bucket, run your garden hose into the bucket of water and run the engine that way. It's a little bit of a goatrope, but sure beats the goatrope you are going to have this evening. :)

The good news is that I suspect your engine will be fine after you get all the water out.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:18 #15

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SJ Bikesaws;311589 wrote: Hmmm, its tough for me to explain the valve without a pic and I am by no means a boat expert. I don't know if they come with this arrangement or if it was added later by a previous owner. There is a 2 inch hose for the water intake between the outdrive and the pump, mine has a ball valve to shut off the intake from the outdrive completely, then in front of it has a tee with another ball valve to open from the garden hose. I like the system much better than the muffs I had to use on my first boats.

I did read your prev. posts, and I'm still hoping it is something stupid and simple. I also plan on doing something about it tonight.

OK, sounds like you have a home made version of a "Salt-a-Way" kit, or sump'n similar!
I'd encourage you to use the entire Volvo system for when running at home. There are good reasons for this!

The "valve system" that you have on board is primarily for use while the boat is in the water.... salt water, I may add!
It allows you to flush with potable water without sucking salt water in with it. It is a great idea for those who moor their boats in salt water!


Again, (and without sounding too gruff on this).... but this should not be used to introduce Anti-Freeze into your engine for winterizing purposes...... Flushing.... yes! Winterizing a big NO!
But like said.... another topic for another day, perhaps!

I'm sure that your engine will be fine. Like most others here..... just do several changes to purge the H2O from the oil and components. :D

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:24 #16

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Mocoondo;311602 wrote: ................................... That's obviously an aftermarket install by a previous owner. Creative, but at the same time, one quick way of getting water into the wrong side of your engine, or cooking an engine should you accidentally leave the valve closed. .................................

I'd follow Ricks instructions in terms of draining, refilling, running, draining, refilling, running until all traces of water is out of the engine.....................

Then I'd get a new hose from the drive to the pump and get rid of that shutoff valve arrangement. ...............

The good news is that I suspect your engine will be fine after you get all the water out.

Ditto!

Although I doubt that he's mooring this size boat, it could be useful.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:27 #17

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2850Bounty;311610 wrote: Ditto!

Although I doubt that he's mooring this size boat, it could be useful.


In New Mexico? :D

Unless he's trailering to the ocean, I don't think there is much salt water in NM. :) I think he can safely get rid of the valves. :D

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:28 #18

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Mocoondo;311613 wrote: In New Mexico? :D

Unless he's trailering to the ocean, I don't think there is much salt water in NM. :) I think he can safely get rid of the valves. :D

Oooops! My bad! :hammer

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 16:32 #19

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Here in Alaska when a boat sinks and the engines are in otherwise good condition, the method is drain the water and change the filter, pull the plugs. spin the engine enough to spit out the water; (DO NOT SPIN THE ENGINE WITH THE WATER IN THE CRANKCASE) then refill the oil with a mix of red transmission fluid and light weight oil about 50-50, ATF & hydraulic fluid works great. A squirt of oil in the cyl's, spin the engine a few times, replace the plugs-run the engine a short time; then change the oil and filter; then repeat the 50-50 oil change cycle, run the engine to warm, not hot. Check the oil on the second change- the transmission fluid will pick up any water and look milky red on the first change the second should be much better looking, if milky red then one more time, if it looks ok then change the filter and oil and refill with your favorite oil, run the engine, check the dipstick if any milky oil is present it will show. Pat

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 17:00 #20

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Here is the system.

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I think this is what caused the problem. It always worked great for hooking up a water line quick, so I thought. But there is absolutely no way of getting pressure relief if the pump isn't moving that I see, or maybe if the thermostat was closed. At least with the muffs it would push out of the side before it would shell a gasket (my guess is the intake, that is the sloppiest fit section on a chevy).

As far as salt water, none here for 1000 miles. I will probably leave it on there but I doubt I will ever use it again. Also, living in NM means I am surrounded by other boat stupid people, so I can't get help around here.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 17:17 #21

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I highly doubt that you have ruined any of the GM gaskets.... it is unlikely that any pressure could have displaced a gasket, IMO. The system is far too open for this to have occured.... again, IMOO here.

Yeah, from the looks of your vavle system, I too would remove all of that and go back to OEM. That is an expensive OEM hose, BTW...... and it must be reinforced to prevent suction collapse.

One other aspect of this system over that of the muffs, is that when you flush, and then shut down, you would need to simultaneously shut this supply off as well..... in fact, shut this off a little bit ahead of when you shut down to prevent further water supply to a Non-Running engine...... much like the very same scenario that got you in trouble in the first place, but it may take longer to realize that you caused damage! (engine sitting with small amount of water in a cylinder, for example) :hammer

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 17:20 #22

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Yeah. I'd remove it in its entirety to be safe. Definitely a back-yard setup :) Muffs work.

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2005 Crownline 316 LS "The Lucille"

filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 17:23 #23

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Maybe the gaskets are ok, but how could I have a crankcase full of water if the didn't fail?

More than the water being in there, I am worried on how it got there in the first place.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 17:40 #24

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More than the water being in there, I am worried on how it got there in the first place.

  • water backing up into Manifold from the drive being tilted up.....
  • too much flow for the exhaust by-pass/relief...... ?????
  • several exhaust valves were open.....
  • Piston rings will allow a certain amount of water past them......
  • possible long shot here..... but you may even have an internally cracked exhaust man that does not necessarily pose a problem under normal conditions...... Hey..... I said a Long Shot! :kidding
How long were you away at the ER while the hose was ON?
I think there's your answer.

Don't panic yet!
Pull spark plugs......
Roll the engine over with some oil in each cylinder.....
Do the oil change....
run....
then change both oil/filter this time.....
run again........
check oil again.....
look for white milky-ness.......
change oil/filter again.....
run again........
Repeat if necessary......
Call me in the morning! :D




Now, take two pain killers..... go boating!


.

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filled crankcase with the garden hose 18 Jun 2009 17:46 #25

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Is it possible that the water pressure in the intake manifold crossover failed and dumpd the water into the crankcase? Pat

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