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TOPIC: 1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP

1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 17 Jun 2009 02:33 #1

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First of all i would like to say HI to everyone on this forum, im new to boating and have been on this site since i purchased my first boat, somewhat a year ago and i think its the best forum out there as far as information goes and a number of people with really good expirience.Is i said im new to this and i have a big issue, I bought this boat a year ago with a cracked block,previous owner did not witerized it properly and cracked block,anyways i bough it thinking ill rebuld the engine , upholstery was ruined so basicly i ended up doing the whole boat,engine,interior,gauges seats etc. I bough a car engine at a scrab yard taken off the head had my block rebuild , original head from the boat rebuilt changed all gaskets ,sparks wires ,pointer, distr cup ,starter etc. After we started the engine it was running rough so i pulled the boat to the marina and had the mechanics to tune the engine change oils and change couple of seals and berings between the outboard and transom.Paid over 1000 dollars and got my boat back but it would stall as soon as i put it in wated and try to accelerate, i brought it back to marina and they said it would be the carb so they got it rebuilt and they took the boat on the water but the problem is still there, checked fuel pump ,even ran it on seperate fuel tank just to make sure and still same problem, marks are at 10 deg idles at 600-650 rpm perfect, on muffs revs and all is good ,as soon as it gets load it chokes and dies,they said when they move their marks to 16 deg advance timing it runs better but still stalls, im at the point where i spent over 6000 dollars on everything and my boat still dies when on load and try to accelerate, i would like anybody with some knowledge and expirience to maybe point me in a direction as i know there are really smart people on this forum, PLEASE HELP , The way the boat turned out is amazing and i would really like to ride it after a year project and all this money spent, just if it wasnt for this problem im having, thanks in advance LUKE

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 17 Jun 2009 15:51 #2

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When you run on muffs, will the motor run in gear without stalling, or are you just running in neutral? If it will run in gear on muffs, it must be either an electrical, or fuel delivery, problem when the engine is under load. If the carb was overhauled, ALL filters were replaced, and the fuel pump delivery pressure was checked, I'd suspect an electrical problem. Did you swap out all of the old ignition parts? Something as simple as a faulty condenser could be causing the problem. Start with the simple, inexpensive parts, and work your way through the condenser, coil, points, high tension leads, etc. I'm assumming that you've checked your compression to eliminate a bad gasket on the rebuild.
The fact that the engine seems to run better at 16 degrees may indicate that the distributor may not be in correctly. Find tdc on #1 cylinder compression stroke, and ensure that the rotor lines up with perfectly with the # 1 high tension lead position on your distributor cap.

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Bob Hawes.
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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 17 Jun 2009 16:28 #3

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I stopped reading when I saw "car engine".

You are already 2/3rds of the way to what a proper marine repower would have cost you, and that would have been drop-in, turn-key.

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Matt Train
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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 17 Jun 2009 17:27 #4

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Recheck your cam timing

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Wayne
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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 17 Jun 2009 20:08 #5

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Only the block was from the car engine , head was marine so is the rest, my engine rebilder came by today and advanced timing by one tooth on cam ,will see if it fixes the problem.

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 17 Jun 2009 20:26 #6

  • Ifallsguy
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Had a similar stalling issue with my 89 Capri 2.4. Turned out the timing was 10 degrees retarded, and ran hot. Proper timing is TDC. Tuned up, reset timing and everything is running great.

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"THIN ICE"
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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 17 Jun 2009 20:48 #7

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szuwar;311167 wrote: Only the block was from the car engine , head was marine so is the rest, my engine rebilder came by today and advanced timing by one tooth on cam ,will see if it fixes the problem.


TO fix your problem, I would agree, you need to check your timing.

But to illuminate the point, there are companies out there that sell full repowers that are turn key and ready to go. You are within a grand of those packages as is, barring you finding anything else that is out of sorts.

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Matt Train
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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 18 Jun 2009 01:10 #8

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If you installed the COMPLETE car short block. Among OTHER things, your camshaft is the wrong one. An automotive cam and a marine cam are totally different therefore the mfg. timing WILL NOT work. Your valve timing is all wrong. :hammer

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 18 Jun 2009 02:32 #9

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Matt, don't treat the guy as a slinky - he's already spent the money, and is asking for help to get what he's already built running as well as it can.

And a car cam may not give as "ideal" valve timing as a marine grind would, but to say it won't work (at all?) is just plain wrong.

szuwar, bhawes gave you a good investigation plan to follow. You either aren't getting enough fuel when you hit the throttle or something's cutting your ignition then.

You need to tell us if you can shift into gear and accelerate the engine with NO load (out of the water, on muffs). If not, then your problem would likely be with the ESA (electronic shift assist) module, not the engine at all. If it does work ok out of the water the ESA still might be the problem though not enough fuel delivery would be more likely.

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 18 Jun 2009 03:11 #10

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av8mech;311315 wrote: If you installed the COMPLETE car short block. Among OTHER things, your camshaft is the wrong one. An automotive cam and a marine cam are totally different therefore the mfg. timing WILL NOT work. Your valve timing is all wrong. :hammer



the head and cam was just rebult and it is a marine ,taken from old engine ,all that is automotive is the block and thats it.The marina guys ran the boat on a seperate tank to eliminate gas problem

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 18 Jun 2009 03:25 #11

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MikeValent;311339 wrote: Matt, don't treat the guy as a slinky - he's already spent the money, and is asking for help to get what he's already built running as well as it can.

And a car cam may not give as "ideal" valve timing as a marine grind would, but to say it won't work (at all?) is just plain wrong.

szuwar, bhawes gave you a good investigation plan to follow. You either aren't getting enough fuel when you hit the throttle or something's cutting your ignition then.

You need to tell us if you can shift into gear and accelerate the engine with NO load (out of the water, on muffs). If not, then your problem would likely be with the ESA (electronic shift assist) module, not the engine at all. If it does work ok out of the water the ESA still might be the problem though not enough fuel delivery would be more likely.


thanks for all replies guys, well on muffs i can shift perfectly into gear and accelerate as well with no prob, but on load in water engine has no power . What we did today we took off timing cover and when alined timing marks on bottom and top i was getting 10 deg timing instead of tc 0 , so when i alined it to tc 0 , top on camshaft was off by little less than a tooth ,so the timing was retarded, and when accelerated the max i could get from a timing strobe light with no load was10- 17deg advance by turning distributor, so i took the belt off ,allined marks and advanced by that one tooth on wheel,now on rev i get from 12 to 30 few degrees but the engine idles a little more rought than before,i dont know by what i was told these engines do run like that somewhat rough,my distribution cup is all the way back so now i get a 12 degree on idle ,650rpm,would like to have it on 10 .Another thing is hat the who knows how many times was the block shaved or the head on the boat ever done, if so they both lost a bit of metal and are sitting little low than original ,so the marks could be offf by slite bit ,just my thought, im thinking of anything i can at this point. It was raining today so couldnt check it in water but will soon.I hope i explained as much as i could for someone to understand my situation,thank a lot to everyone trying to help me .

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 19 Jun 2009 03:00 #12

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You might check for an intake leak. Or possibly a fouled anti-siphon valve (though doubtful).

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My restoration thread: http://baylinerownersclub.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23504
1988 2150 CF Bowrider
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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 19 Jun 2009 11:04 #13

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I once took and shaved the keyway slot on the crank gear till the marks lined up then filled the opening up with JB weld, let it sit overnight and never had another problem out of it. The proper fix was head shims. If memory serves me correct you can move the dist drive gear one tooth to get your dist in range.

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Wayne
'76, T1750 "Yellow Submarine"
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http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=456072

1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 20 Jun 2009 02:02 #14

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Hi all just to update, when changed the mark one tooth as i mentioned above, now the max rpm i get is around 1800 and no power from engine ,just drifting slowly ,max throtle and around 1800 - 2000 rpm, im at 12 degrees now ,cant get any lower at distributor , i can advance it to 32 or so ,please someone help, im stuck, what else should i check for , intake seems fine i was told ,but how do i check the intake manifold, its strange that out of water i can accelerate fine on muffs in gear, but on load i cant get past 2000 rpm and doesnt push .What would be a step by step procedure according to you guys, set both marks bottom and top , run and time it with strobe light to get tdc0 than advane it with distribuor to 10 , and should be fine , but it isnt, cound the rebuilder scred something with putting a wrong camshaft oposed to my original one ,because thats what im suspecting ,how do i tell a difference between automotive one.PLEASE SOMEONE HELP , i know there are good mechanics here HELP

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 20 Jun 2009 02:03 #15

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thanks will try to do that ,skip distr up one way

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 20 Jun 2009 02:57 #16

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With the drive out of the water, realize that the engine is running with no significant load either in neutral or in gear. That it will rev freely then means NOTHING.

I have no idea what you're doing trying to adjust the timing chain (belt?) so can't comment on that. And if it got rebuilt with a car camshaft I can't see that causing the problems you're having.

What's the story with the distributor? What's the timing advance at idle? What is it at 3,000 rpm? (checking without load is fine for this)

When you try to accelerate in the water, does the engine backfire at all? Or does it run smoothly and just seem to develop no power?

Calm down enough to break your posts into paragraphs rather than just typing everything in one big rush. Right now you're like a panicked woman who's talking so fast that she doesn't seem to be making sense. You need to be clear about whether you're referring to the cam timing or distributor timing, or carb concerns or... break the post into paragraphs. When you've finished the post, walk out of the room, do something else for a minute, then come back in and proofread what you've written. If it still makes sense to you, submit the post; if it now seems confusing, rework it until it's clear.

We can try to help, but anything you don't state - like the camshaft situation - we have to guess at, and we're likely to guess wrong. Keep at it and we'll try to help as much as we can.

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 20 Jun 2009 11:59 #17

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just wondering
does it bog down while in neutral or once in gear while in the water
you may have a drive problem instead of an engine problem

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 20 Jun 2009 13:27 #18

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MikeValent;311339 wrote: Matt, don't treat the guy as a slinky - he's already spent the money, and is asking for help to get what he's already built running as well as it can.
And a car cam may not give as "ideal" valve timing as a marine grind would, but to say it won't work (at all?) is just plain wrong.

szuwar, bhawes gave you a good investigation plan to follow. You either aren't getting enough fuel when you hit the throttle or something's cutting your ignition then.

You need to tell us if you can shift into gear and accelerate the engine with NO load (out of the water, on muffs). If not, then your problem would likely be with the ESA (electronic shift assist) module, not the engine at all. If it does work ok out of the water the ESA still might be the problem though not enough fuel delivery would be more likely.

Matt, I too agree with your content, but I must agree that the guy doesn't need to be beat up....... he's probably feeling badly enough on his own!

I also agree w/ Mike on the cam issue here. I don't not know this particular engine... so I'm limited as to any real knowledge on it. However,
while not ideal for marine use, it may work OK.......... but again, it could and/or may (that's "COULD" and/or "MAY") pose some over-lap issues re; water ingestion...... etc.
I'm sure he'll find out...... hopefully not the hard way.


szuwar, Please accept this as being a friendly suggestion here. I like helping as much as the next guy....... BUT your "run-on" sentences make me want to pass your threads up and move on to another.
Seriously, it makes it difficult to follow when we don't break thought patterns with good puncutation.
The only reason I posted here was due to a few of the responses by others.

So, I am offering you a few ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and a few ..................... to keep and use.
Here are a couple of ???????????? and I'll even toss in a few of these for you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here are a few spaces too....... (you won't be able to see them, but they are there)












You keep them.... I don't need them back! :kidding

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 25 Jun 2009 02:37 #19

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thank you all and appologize for throwing all this atyou all, i think i got it all solved.As i said my engine guys made a mistake adjusting timing belt, i corrected the timing on belt, and advanced little bit on distributor ,boat goes well now,has power. Just one more thing left is :

- as my first boat and no experience - is it normal for it to accelerate slow before it goes on plane

- on plane its all good
- stabilizer probably will help
- now i have another issue , is it normal for a brand new engine to be
at 200 - 220 degrees Frht,at speed and , 190-210 at idle.I understand that the engine might be running hotter than usual untill all insides wear in but 220.
- i got one of those ir temp meters just to make sure that my BRAND NEW GAUGE is working correctly before i start looking for something else. Some people tell me its normal some think its overheating. If it was overheating woudnt the gauge go all the way up ( 240 max on gauge) thanks for all the help

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1987 Bayliner Capri 2.3 OMC BIG PROBLEM HELP 25 Jun 2009 11:00 #20

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Sounds like it may have the automotive thermostat in it. Pull it and check the opening temp.

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Wayne
'76, T1750 "Yellow Submarine"
AQ130D, 280
MMSI# 338091747
http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn79/wingmanx1/bayliner/
My flybridge restore
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=456072
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