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TOPIC: Carb leaking fuel!

Carb leaking fuel! 21 Sep 2017 22:15 #51

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Here's a couple better photos. I have just over an inch between the shift and the fuel port.



Here it is shifted in forward gear. There isn't a lot of room.



I was planning on all steel line, but I may have to go to A1-15 with flared steel ends and brass fittings. Fun, fun, fun.

Overall, while I'm still having issues connecting the fuel line, I'm very pleased with how easily this has gone so far. Thanks, guys!

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
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Carb leaking fuel! 22 Sep 2017 03:15 #52

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Have a fuel line made with a banjo type fitting on the carburator end, should get you the clearance needed.

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Dave
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Carb leaking fuel! 22 Sep 2017 13:12 #53

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They sell those at autozone

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Carb leaking fuel! 22 Sep 2017 21:51 #54

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that shiny reman Eddy won't even last maybe 2yrs where salty... we would much rather prefer the green plastic linkage over that shiny brass...

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Carb leaking fuel! 22 Sep 2017 22:55 #55

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Ruffryder wrote: that shiny reman Eddy won't even last maybe 2yrs where salty... we would much rather prefer the green plastic linkage over that shiny brass...


Actually, it's not brass. It's coated steel, the same stuff they use on the Marine Series, ....or so they tell me. Now that I know how to change them out, if it is corrodes, it is going back.

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
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Carb leaking fuel! 02 Oct 2017 23:50 #56

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New problem! The carb leaks!

I installed the banjo bolt type of fuel connection, but when I fired it up, I had fuel dripping down the side of the carb. Unless I missed connecting something, it appears the gasket is leaking.



At first, I'd installed the carb without the adapter, but it leaked. However, I couldn't tell where it was coming from ....except that it was pooling under the STB side of the manifold. In fact, that entire side of the carb is covered in fuel.

Thinking about it this morning, I decided to use the adapter just in case there was something that would stop the leak. Fired it pagan, and it still leaks, and I'm talking about 1/8 cup in about 10 seconds.

This is a National Remanufactured carb bought off eBay. Am I missing something?

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin
Last Edit: by CptCrunchie.

Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 00:47 #57

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Just above your arrow is where the float bowl vent for that side is located, could it be coming from the vent? (Stuck float needle or similar) Sounds like the rebuild job didn't go well, maybe it should go back.
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Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 01:12 #58

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builderdude wrote: Just above your arrow is where the float bowl vent for that side is located, could it be coming from the vent? (Stuck float needle or similar) Sounds like the rebuild job didn't go well, maybe it should go back.


Thanks, Dave. That's what I'm thinking. I'll be calling them tomorrow.

Here's a photo of the side. Where might the vent be? And would a stuck needle valve leak that much fuel out the side?

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin

Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 01:46 #59

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Yeah return and try and get a marine coated one with the fuel inlet on the proper side.

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Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 03:23 #60

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If the float valve doesn't seat a ton of fuel will be forced out the vent opening, most will be drawn into the intake and flood the engine but some can leak down the outside as well. Have you run the engine with this "new" carb yet?

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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 03:27 #61

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yachtman wrote: Yeah return and try and get a marine coated one with the fuel inlet on the proper side.

As far as I know (and not sayin I do) the Edelbrock 1409, Carter AFB and Webber marine carburetors all use his location for the fuel inlet. I'm sure the carb can be machined for port side fuel inlet also.
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 03:54 #62

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builderdude wrote: If the float valve doesn't seat a ton of fuel will be forced out the vent opening, most will be drawn into the intake and flood the engine but some can leak down the outside as well. Have you run the engine with this "new" carb yet?


So the vent is inside the flame arrestor? That would explain the whole side being soaked with fuel.

I've started it a few times just to pressurize the fuel line. It runs for a few seconds, but it doesn't stay running. Once I saw it leaking, I shut it down and grabbed the fire extinguisher.

If the float is stuck, is there a quick remedy, or should I just return it? I'm thinking about removing the coil ignition wire, remove the arrestor and turn the engine over so I can see whether the vent is spewing fuel. Is there any danger in doing that?

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin
Last Edit: by CptCrunchie.

Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 05:58 #63

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CptCrunchie wrote:

builderdude wrote: If the float valve doesn't seat a ton of fuel will be forced out the vent opening, most will be drawn into the intake and flood the engine but some can leak down the outside as well. Have you run the engine with this "new" carb yet?


So the vent is inside the flame arrestor? That would explain the whole side being soaked with fuel.

I've started it a few times just to pressurize the fuel line. It runs for a few seconds, but it doesn't stay running. Once I saw it leaking, I shut it down and grabbed the fire extinguisher.

If the float is stuck, is there a quick remedy, or should I just return it? I'm thinking about removing the coil ignition wire, remove the arrestor and turn the engine over so I can see whether the vent is spewing fuel. Is there any danger in doing that?


Always a potential danger with a gasoline leak (fuel vapor) in the engine bay. With that said I'd probably do the same. Maybe disable the ignitin circuit at the back of the ignition switch, run the blower and have fire extinguishers at the ready just in case.
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Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 10:10 #64

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You have a mechanical fuel pump ?

Is there fuel in that yellow hose ?

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Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 15:16 #65

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Chief Alen wrote: You have a mechanical fuel pump ?

Is there fuel in that yellow hose ?


Yes, mechanic fuel pump mounted in the STB front corner of the engine. The yellow hose is the safety hose connected to the fuel pump in the event the membrane breaks, which keeps the fuel out of the bilge, .....but I'm sure you knew that. It is dry.

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
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HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
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Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 17:03 #66

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Just got off the phone with National. The tech recommended that I find a way to pinch the fuel line and run the engine until the carb runs out of fuel. Then remove the banjo nut and blast some compressed air into the fuel port. This is supposed to dislodge the needle/float.

I have three problems: I have nowhere to pinch off the line. Therefore, I have no way to stop the flow of gasoline through the fuel pump. And since the fuel pump is working, I'm reluctant to screw with it.

I asked him if I could just blast air into the fuel port, but he said there is nowhere for the float to move, so it won't dislodge. Since the thing is already leaking fuel, that doesn't make sense to my non-mechanical brain.

Question: If I did blast with air, wouldn't that force the fuel out the overflow, ...thereby loosen the float?

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin

Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 17:44 #67

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Tap the side of the carb with a wood handle hammer holding the metal of the hammer in your hand.

Tap, tap, tap not hit it like a cheating wife.

Bye the way national carb has a bad rep. Here do a search.

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Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 18:37 #68

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Do as chief says tap tap tap, might get lucky. If not back it goes. You shouldn't have these issues with a carb that's "ready to go"

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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 20:33 #69

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Well you could pinch off the fuel line that goes from the tank to the fuel filter.
For all this I would have looked around for a hot rod shop the knows Quadrajets and just get it rebuilt. Sierra is selling all new QJets (can't comment on quality). I've had mine done twice and wouldn't be against having it done again.
The only other carb that would work on the spread bore manifold is the Holley 4 bbl. OMC switched to them in 1990 or so and they were used by OMC/Volvo till the end of carb use. Personally if I could not get a good QJet that's what Id do...

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Carb leaking fuel! 03 Oct 2017 20:50 #70

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Well, I did everything you and the tech suggested. Decision time.

I just called National again and this time I talked to a non-Edelbrock tech. He suggested I return both carbs and they would rebuild the Rochester for the price of the Edelbrock, then ship it back to me. (He said they rebuild 10 Rochester carbs to one of any of the others, and they are currently out of Edelbrock 1409s. He also suggested that the issue I'm having is A-typical of Edelbrock carbs.) But that means a week to get them there, the 3 days they want to rebuild it, and another week to get it back here, and I still need my OMC guy to set it for another $150.

Then my OMC guy says that if the old butterfly valves are pitted - which they are - they will need replacing too, which apparently is more money than just the carb rebuild kit. The National guy, however, said the carb would come back looking like new for the cost of what I spent on the Edelbrock including shipping. I'm guessing they would replace the butterfly valves if that's what it needed. Yet, both my mechanic and the National tech said the old Rochester WOULD BE like new.

My OMC guy needs 4 days to bring in the parts, and another few days to rebuild it. Total cost with my OMC guy will be about $150 more than the $300 I paid National for the Edelbrock, but that includes a full tune-up.

DECISION: National just sent me a pre-paid return label. And since the Rochester is already off the engine, I'm dropping it off at my OMC guy this afternoon so he can order the parts. And considering I destroyed the well rusted metal fuel line getting it off, I'll be bring the rebuilt carb home to put it back on and remake the fuel line. Then the boat goes back to my OMC guy for a full tune-up, .....AND THEN I can finally go fishing!

Yanno, I went with the Edelbrock because that's what I had on my Chris Craft, and they were excellent. I also couldn't see the wisdom of rebuilding a 30 year old carb back to anywhere near serviceable, when for the same price, I could have an Edelbrock again.

What a hassle! Did I mention I hate doing mechanics? This is exact proof! I'm blown away that guys can hardly wait to spend their weekends doing stuff like this. My hat's off to them!

In hindsight, I should have listened to Wifey when she said, "You know you hate mechanics. Why not just let Chuck handle it." .....*heavy sigh* I'm thankful she's learned that 'I told you so' are fighting words. Now she just smirks and walks away shaking her head. ...And you pay, ....and you pay..... :whistle:

Thanks guys for all your assistance.

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin
Last Edit: by CptCrunchie.

Carb leaking fuel! 04 Oct 2017 03:34 #71

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I'm second guessing my decision. Tell me what you would do. This is what I took off because it was leaking fuel all over the manifold. If you saw this, would you rebuild it or simply replace it?



OMC guy says it likely isn't the throttle shaft, though there is some side-to-side play in the shaft. He doesn't do shaft 'bushings', but he will install a new carb kit. He also said this isn't the original carb, but a Sierra replacement. (I completely missed the label.) He looked it up and the replacement for this QuadraJet is $1000. Having just sent back the Edelbrock, it is out of the picture now.

I asked about a Holley, and my OMC guy said they are a good carb, but in his opinion, not as good as the QJet, mostly because the Holley has a diaphragm, ...whatever that means, ...where a QJet is mostly mechanical. He did, however, say that the Edelbrock was by far the simplest carb, though they have never been as well received by the industry like the Rochester is. He too echoed the National tech's comment about the brass floats being an ongoing issue with them.

I look forward your comments.

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin
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Carb leaking fuel! 04 Oct 2017 04:15 #72

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It is impossible for a raw fuel leak to occur from the point you have indicated with the arrow.
That is the secondary throttle shaft, a completely "dry" area until the secondaries open and even then it will be a partially atomized mixture.
If it was dripping from there it was running downstream from the primary side.
Also, the sloppy "primary" throttle shaft bores will only be seen on cars / trucks that have double return springs and have a lot of miles on them. They need to be real sloppy to create much of an issue and that issue will mainly show up as slow return and unstable idle due to the vacuum leak it creates.
I have been in and out of Quadrajets for a VERY long time and have bushed sloppy shafts many times but never on a marine carb, again, only on high mileage road vehicles.

My guess to your original problem:
Float did not seat and the overflow came out of the accelerator pump shaft bore in the upper housing, ran downstream dripping off of the secondary butterfly shaft / linkage.

That carb can be saved, it's just a matter of how much talent a true re-builder has. R&R'ing gaskets is not a "re-build."
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Carb leaking fuel! 04 Oct 2017 22:41 #73

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Well I can see your point, but you will never know if its re-buildable till they get it apart.
That looks to me like a Sierra Re-Man QJet. The new ones have a different part number and they don't cost near $1000. More like 550-600 or so. If I knew they were good I'd buy one in a minute, but I have not been able to find out anything about them.

www.marineengineparts.com/sierra-marine-...-jet-carburetor.html

this place is somewhat local to me, I got my exhaust from them (Riverhead Long Island)
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Carb leaking fuel! 12 Oct 2017 06:12 #74

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I just picked up the Rochester Q-Jet carb from my mechanic after he put a new kit in it. He said it still needs to be adjusted. Anyone know how many turns the set screws need?

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin

Carb leaking fuel! 12 Oct 2017 16:13 #75

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What I do, should get ya close.
Adjustments made with engine at operating temp: Open (counter clockwise) the idle mixture screws about 3 turns out from seated (don't crank them into the seated possition hard) then set the idle speed screw so she idles where she should (it'll likely be running very rich at idle here) then one at a time slowly turn the idle mixture screws in until you hear a slight change/decrees in rpm then back out 1/2 turn.
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
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