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TOPIC: what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits?

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 18:50 #1

  • Centerline2
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I want to have the start battery separate from the house circuits so that we dont end up "dead" on the hook somewhere.

my 2556 is an '88 and I have the wiring diagrams but I cant seem to work out the details of what needs to happen to separate the two systems from one another.

I dont even know where they are joined at so I dont know where to look. its not really a complicated or large electrical system so I dont think it should be too hard to do, but where to start?
I already have in place a blue sea dual circuit plus disconnect switch, with both batts connected properly to it, with one battery connected to the engine only, and the other battery connected to what I believe to be the origination of the house circuit. but the batteries still arent isolated from one another and im not sure where they are combined at, or what circuit to trace to find the link.

is it possible that the batt +/- goes to the fuse panel at the helm, and that the engine and all house circuits originate from under the helm? if so, do I need to run another hot wire to the helm from my dedicated house battery?... the grounds are, and will be, all common so its not a concern.

im absolutely certain this has been done many times, to all types of boats,. has anyone here done this to their boat?, and if so, what is the easiest way, or the proper way to do it? thanks

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1989 Bayliner 2556, 5.7 OMC Cobra
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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 18:58 #2

  • jongleur
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I isolated my reserve (not "start") battery with the ACR
as explained in this post. You use the house for
everything and if (and only if) it fails, you switch over
to the reserve battery and go on your way.

forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?thre...ghts-musings.137615/

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1994 2859 in Tacoma, WA
7.4 Mercruiser
Still learning about other systems
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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 18:58 #3

  • 2850Bounty
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We do not see this ( typically ) until we get up into 34 feet and above. In my opinion, and as per your thread title....... there's absolutely no need to do this on your size boat!

This is been discussed a number of times here on the BOC forums .


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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 19:15 #4

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jongleur wrote: I isolated my reserve (not "start") battery with the ACR
as explained in this post. You use the house for
everything and if (and only if) it fails, you switch over
to the reserve battery and go on your way.

forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?thre...ghts-musings.137615/


I have been using this type of setup for many years, i really like the ACR system in combination with a correct circuit barker from Blue Sea. Alternator always charging starter battery( only used for starter) and hose bank charged through automatic voltage sensing relay. Not very expensive solution either. On my 2556 have been planning to add a third bank but have not yet figured out best way to connect that one, maybe another ACR relay....

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Bayliner 2556 1990 project

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 20:46 #5

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The house and start banks connect at the MBSS.
I'm with Rick on the Keep It Simple idea, no need to rewrite stuff just manage your MBSS so your start battery is never being drawn upon until you need it to start the boat.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 20:50 #6

  • Car2n
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I do know exactly what you are talking about and would like to achieve the same thing on my boat.
I also went with the Blue Sea system (switch & ACR) and thought I had the house side isolated from the starter side but it turns out that everything was still coming off the starter battery and the house batteries were powering nothing.
I've got a couple different wiring diagrams but the one that looks best suited for my boat shows the helm panel coming off a wire harness that originates at the engine.
Look for a red-purple wire (and a black ground wire) within that main harness.
I have yet to do so myself but that's the game plan. (or I may just go back to the 1/both/2 switch and keep an eye on where I have it selected

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Wet'ever
1989 Avanti 2955
460 King Cobra

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 23:04 #7

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Yes, cabin wiring harness power is received from its connection to the the engines wiring harness. The engines wiring harness receives its power from whatever battery bank is selected at the MBSS. If your on the hook and MBSS is selected to #2 (house bank) your #1 bank (start) is not being drawn on and will be good to go if your house bank won't start your boat. Simply switch the MBSS to #1 and hit the key.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 23:20 #8

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builderdude wrote: The house and start banks connect at the MBSS.
I'm with Rick on the Keep It Simple idea, no need to rewrite stuff just manage your MBSS so your start battery is never being drawn upon until you need it to start the boat.


and this is exactly what im trying to do... as it is now, both batteries are being drawn from... and yes, I can disconnect one and leave it out of any of the circuits completely, but the idea is to have both large batteries in service to supply my house needs, and a smaller start battery that is only for starting and not being drawn from for any other purpose... I know there are pros and cons to it, and as rick said, "we dont typically see this on boats until around 34' and above".... what does length have to do with it?, other than that is the length where the manufactures feel its worthy of doing... in my opinion, the need is more dictated by how the boat is outfitted and used, not by the length of it.

.... but if the house circuit and the engine circuits come together at the MBSS, as you say, then it should be an easy separation... I will look there. thank you..

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1989 Bayliner 2556, 5.7 OMC Cobra

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 29 Aug 2017 23:41 #9

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Car2n wrote: I do know exactly what you are talking about and would like to achieve the same thing on my boat.
I also went with the Blue Sea system (switch & ACR) and thought I had the house side isolated from the starter side but it turns out that everything was still coming off the starter battery and the house batteries were powering nothing.
I've got a couple different wiring diagrams but the one that looks best suited for my boat shows the helm panel coming off a wire harness that originates at the engine.
Look for a red-purple wire (and a black ground wire) within that main harness.
I have yet to do so myself but that's the game plan. (or I may just go back to the 1/both/2 switch and keep an eye on where I have it selected


as I look deeper, I think the answer is to run another 10awg hot wire (or larger as the house load demands), to the helm from the battery that has been prepared as the house batt... then add another fuse panel there at the helm. at that point, all the house circuits can be placed on one fuse panel, while the engine components remain on the existing panel..
if the dual circuit plus switch is in place with the acr connected, its then only a matter of determining which battery is the running the house, and which one is running the engine...
the batteries themselves are connected at the MBSS, but by replacing the common MBSS with a dual circuit plus switch, the batteries have been placed on separate circuits, with only the common hot wire running to the helm keeping ALL the circuits joined....

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1989 Bayliner 2556, 5.7 OMC Cobra
Last Edit: by Centerline2.

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 01:08 #10

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As far as battery banks go: This is how your 2556 would have been set up from OEM. Both battery banks positive cables will connect to post 1 & 2 at the MBSS, The common post of the MBSS will deliver 12volt power to the starter lug via whichever bank has been selected. The starter lug is where the engine harness/hull harness recieves it's 12 volt power.
The wiring diagram also shows the onboard battery charger connections being made at posts 1 & 2 of the MBSS, this keeps from having multiple wiring connections at the battery posts. An auxilerary fuse panel is also shown connected to the MBSS, a good thing to do when adding extras like wash down pump, electric down riggers, fish finders ect.

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The following user(s) said Thank You: 2850Bounty, fishexit, Centerline2

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 01:33 #11

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Centerline2 wrote:

builderdude wrote: The house and start banks connect at the MBSS.
I'm with Rick on the Keep It Simple idea, no need to rewrite stuff just manage your MBSS so your start battery is never being drawn upon until you need it to start the boat.


and this is exactly what im trying to do... as it is now, both batteries are being drawn from... If that's the case then the MBSS is set to both 1 & 2 OR it's been incorrectly wired. and yes, I can disconnect one and leave it out of any of the circuits completely, but the idea is to have both large batteries in service to supply my house needs, and a smaller start battery that is only for starting and not being drawn from for any other purpose... IMO this is exactly what the MBSS is for, separating/isolating different battery banks I know there are pros and cons to it, and as rick said, "we dont typically see this on boats until around 34' and above".... what does length have to do with it?, other than that is the length where the manufactures feel its worthy of doing... in my opinion, the need is more dictated by how the boat is outfitted and used, not by the length of it. I'd agree, the larger boats typically have more stuff running onboard.

.... but if the house circuit and the engine circuits come together at the MBSS, as you say, then it should be an easy separation... like I said previously, if the MBSS is wired correctly you'll be able to separate the battery banks by rotating the switch. I will look there. thank you..

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 07:38 #12

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Hi everyone been away for awhile I see this aged separating batteries theatd is up again. I have seperated mine I highly recommend but it ment rewiring whole boat which I found to have merit just upgrading once you see how much is run off the purple wire over the years it's amazing how many toys you can ad to a boat that require power. I have ARC system left the motor harnesses running gauges trim etc but removed everything else to new circuit. I have a single start batt with 2 house batts. If you chose to do it go the whole way Google is your friend learn what your amp draw will be with everything on add a bit for new toys that come on the market then half it as you don't won't to drain your house bank below 50% the original system works but I might park in a bay for a night or 2 so I went with separate banks.

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Daniel Drummond.
Waitakere Auckland.
New Zealand.
2252 Hard Top.
Carbed 5.7 alpha one.

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 11:22 #13

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Like said...... until we get up into 34 footers and above, we will not see the house loads separated from the engine loads.
Let the engine harness and hull harness interface remain as is.

Take another look at my schematic in post # 10.
Look at how the MBSS directs 12 vdc battery power by way of which batt bank is selected at the time.


Switch your MBSS to #1 SLBB and start your engine. (SLBB = start load batt bank)
While the engine is warming up, several things occur:
...... your instrument panel, engine's starter motor, ignition system and all engine data devices will operate from #1
..... the Amp Hours removed from the starter motor load are now being replenished.
.... all 12 vdc on board demands are now powered via the MBSS "Common" connection.

Now switch to the #2 HLBB and go for an outing. (HLBB = house load batt bank)
...... your instrument panel, engine's starter motor, ignition system and all engine data devices will operate from #2
..... #2 will be now be receiving the alternator charge rate.
.... all 12 vdc on board demands are now powered via the MBSS "Common" connection.
..... #1 batt bank will now be IN RESERVE!


Through the use of some great BlueSea products, this can become more automated.

But again....... in my opinion there is no need to separate House loads from Engine loads.


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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 13:10 #14

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Centerline2 wrote: as I look deeper, I think the answer is to run another 10awg hot wire (or larger as the house load demands), to the helm from the battery that has been prepared as the house batt... then add another fuse panel there at the helm. at that point, all the house circuits can be placed on one fuse panel, while the engine components remain on the existing panel..
if the dual circuit plus switch is in place with the acr connected, its then only a matter of determining which battery is the running the house, and which one is running the engine...
the batteries themselves are connected at the MBSS, but by replacing the common MBSS with a dual circuit plus switch, the batteries have been placed on separate circuits, with only the common hot wire running to the helm keeping ALL the circuits joined....


That's pretty much what I did, but rather than swapping to a dual circuit switch, I simply added a SBSS beside the MBSS. I now have completely separate systems where I never have to mess with the MBSS, especially when I'm out fishing for the day using electric downriggers. I've sent you a PM.

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 14:16 #15

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Is my battery selector switch "make before break" or
"break before make"?

I have a 1994 2859.

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1994 2859 in Tacoma, WA
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Still learning about other systems
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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 14:54 #16

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You would need to go back in time quite a few years to find an MBSS that was not "make-before-break"!

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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 30 Aug 2017 17:40 #17

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I had an issue in my boat (1985 2160 Trophy) where my electronics (2 VHF radios, Raymarine a78 MFD, MilTech NMEA0183 to NMEA2000 converter for AIS) would shutoff whenever I started the engine due to voltage drop. I did the following:

Installed a BlueSeas ACR, ran a set of power cables with a SBSS from the "house" battery up to a new BlueSeas fuse box and then moved all my electronics to the new box. Now I leave my MBSS set to the "Start" battery, the ACR takes care of start isolation and keeping the batteries charged. Only switch the MBSS in emergency.

Edited to add: Just read Crunchie's post....that makes 2 of us.

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what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 31 Aug 2017 15:45 #18

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an FYI for those that dont know.... an MBSS or SBSS.. these are the most common type of batt switches... the Blue Sea Dual circuit plus switch is a single rotary switch like the common types, but instead of having to choose either circuit 1 or circuit 2 (or both), the dual circuit plus switch has 2 completely independent circuits that switch on at the same time when the dial is turned on, and they both switch off at the same time when turned off... and it also has a combine setting.... this switch used with an ACR allows for both battery banks to be on and in use at the same time, yet be completely isolated from on another so if one batt goes dead, ir doesnt affect the other... yet they both get charged whenever a charging source is active.....

yes, the same thing can be done by wiring in multiple switches, but by spending a few dollars more for a single dual circuit plus switch, its simply a matter of replacing one switch.... the part about trying to figure out all the wiring and how to separate it (as im doing) is going to be the same no matter how many switches you want to install.

after the install and proper connection of the DCplus switch, there is only a single switch with a simple on/off to remember to get both batts connected and charging independently, all the time...

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1989 Bayliner 2556, 5.7 OMC Cobra

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 31 Aug 2017 16:34 #19

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builderdude wrote: As far as battery banks go: This is how your 2556 would have been set up from OEM. Both battery banks positive cables will connect to post 1 & 2 at the MBSS, The common post of the MBSS will deliver 12volt power to the starter lug via whichever bank has been selected. The starter lug is where the engine harness/hull harness recieves it's 12 volt power.
The wiring diagram also shows the onboard battery charger connections being made at posts 1 & 2 of the MBSS, this keeps from having multiple wiring connections at the battery posts. An auxilerary fuse panel is also shown connected to the MBSS, a good thing to do when adding extras like wash down pump, electric down riggers, fish finders ect.


the picture is a great help in understanding the routing of the wires.... thank you

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1989 Bayliner 2556, 5.7 OMC Cobra

what is the best way to separate the engine circuit from the "house" circuits? 31 Aug 2017 21:48 #20

  • Zarn
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I typed in Bayliner wiring diagram into Google and found the correct boat real quick gave all the colour codes which I think is standard across Bayliner boats made separating real easy.

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Daniel Drummond.
Waitakere Auckland.
New Zealand.
2252 Hard Top.
Carbed 5.7 alpha one.
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