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TOPIC: Long or small block, 350

Long or small block, 350 25 Aug 2017 21:26 #1

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Not being mechanical, which one do I have? And is one better than the other, and why?

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
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Long or small block, 350 25 Aug 2017 21:37 #2

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Kevin, you have a small block Chevy 350ci as you listed,
Long block is an automotive term for an engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft (usually), and valve train. A long block does not include fuel system, electrical, intake, and exhaust components, as well as other components.
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Long or small block, 350 25 Aug 2017 21:55 #3

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Definitely not a short block, but it's a little more than a long block. :)
Fully dressed long block?
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Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 11:37 #4

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Complete drop in engine fully dressed.
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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 11:40 #5

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Kevin, although it is not necessarily an automotive term exclusively, Joon is correct .

An automotive or marine long block would be an assembled cylinder block with installed cylinder heads.
This would typically include crankshaft, rods, pistons/rings, camshaft, camshaft followers, timing chain & sprockets, cylinder heads with complete valve train, etc. ............. minus the tin-wear (oil pan & valve covers).
Some will include the front timing chain cover and harmonic balancer...... some will not!
www.google.com/search?q=SBC+long+block&s...ygC&biw=1777&bih=824

A short block would be an assembled cylinder block only....... minus the tin-wear.
Some builders are not including the camshaft, camshaft followers and timing chain/sprockets today..... so use caution and ask questions.
www.google.com/search?q=SBC+short+block&...ygC&biw=1777&bih=824



As for which is better...... there is no correct answer. It would depend on what the need is!



.
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Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 12:14 #6

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My thought, wasn't asked just gonna throw it out there.

A person buy's a complete engine from fuel delivery to pan, and coupler complete drop in engine, from say MM.

Something goes wrong, and believe me it happens alot, something goes.

MM will cover it, with the warranty, will Joe blow engine re-builder down the block cover his engine?

Buy a long block install all your old stuff something goes wrong, they have a out, it was your old elbow etc that went.

Buy a short block install your old cam or a " hot " cam or say a standard one bought somewhere else, will the manufacturer of the engine cover it ?

What does a boater really want ?

To go boating, and not have the boat on the hard after spending alot, to refit.

Me now today, i am searching for a boat that only needs a engine or outboard. really 2 engines.

Leaning towards twin outboards .

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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !
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Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 14:50 #7

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Thanks for your posts. I'm taking myself to school on the mechanical, fighting my belief that I will never understand this, so anything you can assist me with is extremely appreciated. TBH, I didn't quite understand Joon's post after reading green650's post. I thought long and short were actually different sizes of block.

So, if I understand this, a long and short block have the exact same block, but the long comes complete with everything except covers, and short comes as just the block so you can add whatever you want to it?

Mount Vernon Marine completely rebuilt this engine before I got it. Their machine shop donated a 5.7L block after the PO literally shattered the original 5.0L, to which they bolted the remaining working parts from the 5.0L. Reading this, ....



....which would mine be? Or at this point, does it really matter since it was pretty much pieced together?

And the comment, 'dropped in' means they rebuilt this on their bench, then put it in the boat? Why might this matter?

Also, there was some confusion when I purchased the boat that it may not be a Vortec. Reading this, would the choke comment verify that it is, indeed, a Vortec?



So, if it is a Vortec, and considering it now has oversize pistons, what might you guess the HP is? A best guess is fine.

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin
Last Edit: by CptCrunchie.

Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 15:26 #8

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Yes, Vortec top end. .040 over w roller camshaft, gotta be somewhere around 300 I'd think. You still running points in the distributor?

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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
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Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 15:41 #9

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builderdude wrote: Yes, Vortec top end. .040 over w roller camshaft, gotta be somewhere around 300 I'd think. You still running points in the distributor?


Yes. Almost had my mechanic switch to electronic ignition, but he talked me out of it because of the ESA and Cobra OD. Apparently, it is a nose-bleed of, "and you need to replace this, and this, and this...."

If I ever have to switch out the Cobra, I'm going with the VP DP-S, and I'll have him install the Mallory electronic ignition.

Tell me, at that point, how feasible is it to change it to fuel injection?

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin
Last Edit: by CptCrunchie.

Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 16:09 #10

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CptCrunchie wrote:
Tell me, at that point, how feasible is it to change it to fuel injection?


It is very feasible if you have a very fat wallet. Maybe 3-4 boat bucks?
Better off buying a new vortec with new carb and electric fuel pump from Michigan motors for under 5 boat bucks. I did that for my 2252 and it started quickly and ran like a raped ape. Still had to pump the throttle some times.
Now as for my 2859 with MPI, that thing fired up in a couple seconds every time! No throttle pumping. But, it's simply not worth converting from carb to fuel injection.
Sadly, I put my 2859 on the ferry to Alaska yesterday and now I am boatless other than my 10' dinghy.

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Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 16:35 #11

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green650 wrote: ....a raped ape.


ROTFL!!! There's a visual!

I read on another thread about racing mechanics going back to carbs. I have no issue with either, just thought injection was more fuel efficient, ...but that is simply cost prohibitive. Not sure there would be any other gain. I would like to replace the Cobra someday, which will allow to change the ignition. Otherwise, I've very happy with what I have. And 300hp? I've VERY happy with what I have!!

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"B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
MMSI: 367637220
HAM: KE7TTR
TDI tech diver
BoD, North Olympic Peninsula Puget Sound Anglers, Sequim, WA
Kevin

Long or small block, 350 26 Aug 2017 16:41 #12

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CptCrunchie wrote: Thanks for your posts. I'm taking myself to school on the mechanical, fighting my belief that I will never understand this, so anything you can assist me with is extremely appreciated. TBH, I didn't quite understand Joon's post after reading green650's post. I thought long and short were actually different sizes of block.

So, if I understand this, a long and short block have the exact same block, but the long comes complete with everything except covers, and short comes as just the block so you can add whatever you want to it?
Again, today things are slightly different.
What used to be a long block would include the rotating assembly, camshaft and cam followers, oil pump (in separate package), but as per my previous post you can see that not all are doing this.
IOW, ask questions when ordering!



Mount Vernon Marine completely rebuilt this engine before I got it. Their machine shop donated a 5.7L block after the PO literally shattered the original 5.0L, to which they bolted the remaining working parts from the 5.0L. Reading this, ....



....which would mine be? Or at this point, does it really matter since it was pretty much pieced together?
I don't believe that it matters. You ended up with a complete engine....... yes/no????

And the comment, 'dropped in' means they rebuilt this on their bench, then put it in the boat? Why might this matter?
One guess is as good as the other!

Also, there was some confusion when I purchased the boat that it may not be a Vortec. Reading this, would the choke comment verify that it is, indeed, a Vortec?
The intake manifold appears to be fastened to the cylinder heads via 8 bolts. If this is correct, they are Vortec cylinder heads. If 12 bolts, they are Pre-Vortec.
If Vortec, now the question becomes.......... which piston profile was used?
If the GM Full Dished pistons were used, the Vortec chambers may as well be D shaped.
If they used a LCQ style, the Vortec chambers can do their job.




So, if it is a Vortec, and considering it now has oversize pistons, what might you guess the HP is? A best guess is fine.
Marine Gasoline Engine Horse Power numbers are typically exaggerated in that these guys acquire the rating at an RPM that we DO NOT operate at.
Example: the first Marine SBC Vortec engine was advertised as having between 315-320 HP...... but when you looked further, the rating was taken @ 5,200 to 5,400 RPM.
So...... use caution when reading about HP numbers.

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Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set
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