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TOPIC: 1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 04 May 2016 04:48 #1

  • Fokemon
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Hi all
Another dumbie asking...
I am going to replace my power steering (cable) with hydraulic. I already have a hydraulic steering kit purchased, but have some hesitations... I am not able to go and see in next few days, so need to ask.
Has anyone done such a change? From appearance of cylinder, and remembering the power assisted cylinder, is it possible to utilize the power steering, and just change cable control to hydraulic? Or do you always need to remove power steering, when removing cable?
I have done such a work with outboard, but this is totally new for me...

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 04 May 2016 05:44 #2

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Fokemon wrote: Hi all
Another dumbie asking...
I am going to replace my power steering (cable) with hydraulic. I already have a hydraulic steering kit purchased, but have some hesitations... I am not able to go and see in next few days, so need to ask.
Has anyone done such a change? From appearance of cylinder, and remembering the power assisted cylinder, is it possible to utilize the power steering, and just change cable control to hydraulic? Or do you always need to remove power steering, when removing cable?
I have done such a work with outboard, but this is totally new for me...

Don't think that'll work, Rick explains how the PA works well in post 2 here:
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ring-wheels?start=25

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Dave
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Last Edit: by builderdude.

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 04 May 2016 05:51 #3

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Thanks. I will assume that I have remove the whole steering system. Unfortunately that means new belt to engine and removal of pump and cooler. And that requires better hands than mine...
Shame to remove working steering system, but for me the hydraulic is the only way to go.

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 14:30 #4

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I think I found a steering, which only replaces cable and leaves power assistance as it is.
Take a look at picture, spell if U can B)

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 16:15 #5

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The original mercruiser PA steering cylinder will not "couple up" to a hydraulic helm unit. OEM PA cylinder requires movement of the cable and cable jacket to activate It.

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Dave
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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 16:17 #6

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Fokemon wrote: Thanks. I will assume that I have remove the whole steering system. Unfortunately that means new belt to engine and removal of pump and cooler. And that requires better hands than mine...
Shame to remove working steering system, but for me the hydraulic is the only way to go.

I agree, I think the saying is: "If it ain't broke don't fix it" ;)

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Dave
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 17:30 #7

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But seems that installing an working autopilot and leave option for kicker is undoable, at least in all sources i have found. I doubt that cable pilot would cope with steering when main engine isn't running.
What have other fishermen done?
And mine is alpha one gen 2, it has been replaced.

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Last Edit: by Fokemon.

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 17:35 #8

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Fokemon:
What autopilot options do we have with PA cable steering if not using a kicker? I would like autopilot for trolling and do not use a kicker.

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 18:24 #9

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There's a list of all Teleflex kits for PowerAssist and Non-PowerAssist sterndrives at

www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=724

They offer different cylinders and helms for Bravo with PA and for Bravo without PA.
I am not sure whether by "with PA" they mean their own electric PA pump is present, or the original Mercruiser PA is present.
From what I am reading, their electric PA pump is a great option, it is tied in hydraulic system, and also works as an autopilot pump.
The only thing I don't like about it is the price.

And as you already mentioned, you can always go without the PA, downside is removal of PS pump and PA cylinder at the stern, new belt, and also it will have about 6 turns of the helm between hard over to port and starboard positions.

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Alex
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Last Edit: by fishaman. Reason: more info

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 18:25 #10

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IMO It could be changed to full hydraulic system but the OEM Mercruiser PA cylinder will need to be removed and replaced with the appropriate steering cylinder and mounting hardware that works with the newer hydraulic helm unit you've shown.
Can't help with the auto pilot stuff.

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Dave
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 19:25 #11

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My Raytheon ST5000+ auto pilot works with the 2452 OEM steering system...

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Doug ;}
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"Go Aweigh to" Photos < click on red letters... 2001 Bayliner 2452 w/6.2 HO (paid for)


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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 20:23 #12

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My friend changed to hydraulic steering and it was a straight forward job, the power steering is reacting to the movement of the cylinder and whether you move it by cable or hydraulic makes no fifference to the steering, you just get a better steering which locks in position when you make no corrections and also enables you to install an autopilot if wanted.
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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 20:38 #13

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mr.bent wrote: My friend changed to hydraulic steering and it was a straight forward job, the power steering is reacting to the movement of the cylinder and whether you move it by cable or hydraulic makes no fifference to the steering, you just get a better steering which locks in position when you make no corrections and also enables you to install an autopilot if wanted.

Only if main engine is running driving the OEM power steering pump Yes no??

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Dave
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 20:40 #14

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It looks like there are hydraulic steering cylinders made specifically to hook up to a Mercruiser power steering actuator. Take a look page 13: www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/343319g.pdf

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 21:15 #15

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Interesting topic, I have been thinking of getting a sitex autopilot with octopus remote drive. I have kicker connected to main drive. I also wondered if trolling with main engine off if the set up would work.

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Jim, Central pa, '98 2452

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 21:31 #16

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Norton Rider wrote: It looks like there are hydraulic steering cylinders made specifically to hook up to a Mercruiser power steering actuator. Take a look page 13: www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/343319g.pdf

Yup, I see it. This must be similar as to what mr.bent was referring. Perhaps the new aftermarket cylinder simply pushes the OEM cylinder through its motions weather the engine is driving the OEM pump or not, gotta admit I'm not sure how hard it'd be. If spending the money to purchase the aftermarket hydraulic steering system, why keep the OEM stuff in the loop at all? I'd think installing the aftermarket steering cylinder directly to the tiller arm of the drive would be a simpler way to go (page 7), and likely loose quite a few OEM pounds too.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 05 May 2016 22:14 #17

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builderdude wrote:

Norton Rider wrote: It looks like there are hydraulic steering cylinders made specifically to hook up to a Mercruiser power steering actuator. Take a look page 13: www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/343319g.pdf

Yup, I see it. This must be similar as to what mr.bent was referring. Perhaps the new aftermarket cylinder simply pushes the OEM cylinder through its motions weather the engine is driving the OEM pump or not, gotta admit I'm not sure how hard it'd be. If spending the money to purchase the aftermarket hydraulic steering system, why keep the OEM stuff in the loop at all? I'd think installing the aftermarket steering cylinder directly to the tiller arm of the drive would be a simpler way to go (page 7), and likely loose quite a few OEM pounds too.


The power steering pump and cylinder are there to assist in steering by reducing the force required to turn the steering wheel. The system does not really care how it is being actuated: cable or hydraulic cylinder. By eliminating the power steering you are eliminating the assist. The effort needed to turn the wheel will increase.

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 00:18 #18

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Norton Rider wrote:

builderdude wrote:

Norton Rider wrote: It looks like there are hydraulic steering cylinders made specifically to hook up to a Mercruiser power steering actuator. Take a look page 13: www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/343319g.pdf

Yup, I see it. This must be similar as to what mr.bent was referring. Perhaps the new aftermarket cylinder simply pushes the OEM cylinder through its motions weather the engine is driving the OEM pump or not, gotta admit I'm not sure how hard it'd be. If spending the money to purchase the aftermarket hydraulic steering system, why keep the OEM stuff in the loop at all? I'd think installing the aftermarket steering cylinder directly to the tiller arm of the drive would be a simpler way to go (page 7), and likely loose quite a few OEM pounds too.


The power steering pump and cylinder are there to assist in steering by reducing the force required to turn the steering wheel. I assume you are referring to the OEM Mercruiser PA cylinder and pump etc. and I completly agree The system does not really care how it is being actuated: cable or hydraulic cylinder. understood, and I agree again ;) By eliminating the power steering you are eliminating the assist. The effort needed to turn the wheel will increase. Agree again but my question is: if a fella is removing the cable driven helm unit to switch over to a hydraulic helm unit and an aftermarket steering cylinder then why keep the OEM Mercruiser stuff "in the loop" when you could simply steer the boat with the new aftermarket steering cylinder hooked directly to the tiller arm of the drive as they show on page 7 figure 2?

www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/343319g.pdf

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Dave
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.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 00:48 #19

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Answered my own question, page 17 figure 19. Looks like it'll bolt up to the original mountings on the Mercruiser transom assembly.
www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/343319g.pdf

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Dave
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 02:03 #20

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The reason for retaining the power steering is the ease of turning. It may be too hard to turn without the power steering.

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 02:17 #21

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IMO, Hydraulic Steering is far superior to Power Assist!


.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 02:22 #22

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2850Bounty wrote: IMO, Hydraulic Steering is far superior to Power Assist!


.

Rick, is this similar to what a lot of the VP driven cruisers had in the Mid 80's?

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Dave
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.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 03:55 #23

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As I mentioned, pilot is a must to me. I am mostly trolling for salmon with 14-18 rods, so there is no time for non-driver moments...
My thought has been, that the PA would remain, and if main is off, the force created by pilot pump (simrad rpu 80) would be enough even without PA being on. As the pump creates up to 50bar pressure, and normal helm pump only few bar, I assume that it is enough to turn the engine. And even kicker.
PA is really great when docking, moving the wheel is fast and makes things easier.
Seems that my secret dream of having PA and hydraulic with reasonable cost might be happening. Steering kit was only 760€ ($870), which is quite ok. At least on our price level. I happen to live in one of the most expensive countries....
Aarod76: there is pilots for cable with (I think you call it) helm drive. The pilots work unit is placed straight to steering wheel, so it would suit you. Simrad ap12 to mention one.

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 14:11 #24

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builderdude wrote:



Dave, I couldn't help but see the "notice" at the bottom of that page. I have been making the same suggestion for years, and some people get it….... sme do not.
Thank you for posting that… I will earmark this for future! :)



To the OP
I may not be following you….....
You have mentioned PA (power assist) and have also mentioned hydraulic steering.
While both incorporate the hydraulic principal, the two systems are very different regarding the way in which they function.

A true hydraulic system will easily allow for an autopilot installation.


.

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1992 2452 power steering to hydraulic 06 May 2016 20:15 #25

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Well, this language isn't my own, so there might be some misunderstandings... Sorry for that :)

I would be replacing only the cable with hyd.cylinder and steering with hyd.pump. As I have, maybe, figured it out, PA is actually the cylinder between cable and stern drive. With correct set, PA would work normally, and if main is shut off, still you are able to steer due to high torque of hyd.steer. Pilot should have no problems, as it uses a lot higher pressure than any hyd.steer system.
That would allow me to apply kicker with ezsteer bar, if needed.

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