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TOPIC: Element Hull Holding Water

Element Hull Holding Water 21 Jul 2016 21:19 #51

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oakplank wrote: Is there anyone on BOC that can organize a group representation that we Element owners can sign on to so that we, as a group, can forward our concerns to Bayliner management?
The time is now for Bayliner to acknowledge this issue and submit a fix. Drilling holes doesn't fix anything. Water will still enter the hull. The holes only allows the unwanted water to escape.
We need help from any legal beagle out there to put this together for us.


Good news. I just got a confirmation from Bayliner (Brunswick) that they will install the plugs on each sponsons of my Element.
I just knew that they would come through. It's all about customer service and I'm happy that Brunswick takes customer service seriously.

Now I just have to arrange an appointment with my dealer to get this done. Since my boat is in the water for the season, I will arrange now for a fall appointment.

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Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
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Element Hull Holding Water 22 Jul 2016 04:05 #52

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oakplank wrote:

oakplank wrote: Is there anyone on BOC that can organize a group representation that we Element owners can sign on to so that we, as a group, can forward our concerns to Bayliner management?
The time is now for Bayliner to acknowledge this issue and submit a fix. Drilling holes doesn't fix anything. Water will still enter the hull. The holes only allows the unwanted water to escape.
We need help from any legal beagle out there to put this together for us.


Good news. I just got a confirmation from Bayliner (Brunswick) that they will install the plugs on each sponsons of my Element.
I just knew that they would come through. It's all about customer service and I'm happy that Brunswick takes customer service seriously.

Now I just have to arrange an appointment with my dealer to get this done. Since my boat is in the water for the season, I will arrange now for a fall appointment.


Nice work. I have drained some water from the port sponson after every boating outing since I've had my sponson drains installed.

Enjoy :)

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element Hull Holding Water 23 Jul 2016 00:12 #53

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Hi,

I went to the dealer today and asked him if he knew anything this issue with the Element Hull holding water. He mentions that he's sold so many and this is the first time he's heard of it. Now, I have two transducers installed on my transom, one for the depth finder and for my Helix 5 sonar/gps. I'm thinking of removing one of the transducer and see if water comes out of the two screws they used to install it. Of course, I'll only know from one side of the boat. If water comes out, I'm going back to the dealer and let him know. Do those screws go deep enough that it penetrates the transom, so if there is water, it will come out of those screw holes? Was it your dealer that contacted Bayliner or did you, to get warranty repairs?

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Element Hull Holding Water 23 Jul 2016 01:10 #54

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TigerBoat wrote:

oakplank wrote:

oakplank wrote: Is there anyone on BOC that can organize a group representation that we Element owners can sign on to so that we, as a group, can forward our concerns to Bayliner management?
The time is now for Bayliner to acknowledge this issue and submit a fix. Drilling holes doesn't fix anything. Water will still enter the hull. The holes only allows the unwanted water to escape.
We need help from any legal beagle out there to put this together for us.


Good news. I just got a confirmation from Bayliner (Brunswick) that they will install the plugs on each sponsons of my Element.
I just knew that they would come through. It's all about customer service and I'm happy that Brunswick takes customer service seriously.

Now I just have to arrange an appointment with my dealer to get this done. Since my boat is in the water for the season, I will arrange now for a fall appointment.


Nice work. I have drained some water from the port sponson after every boating outing since I've had my sponson drains installed.

Enjoy :)


How much water are you getting?
My boat is in the water for the summer season and only comes out in October. I don't mind a bit of water as long as I can open the new plugs and drain the sponsons in the Fall, preventing ice in there during the winter. I would hate having to haul out the boat weekly just to drain the sponsons.

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12 foot aluminum fishing boat

Element Hull Holding Water 23 Jul 2016 22:30 #55

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oakplank wrote:

TigerBoat wrote:

oakplank wrote:

oakplank wrote: Is there anyone on BOC that can organize a group representation that we Element owners can sign on to so that we, as a group, can forward our concerns to Bayliner management?
The time is now for Bayliner to acknowledge this issue and submit a fix. Drilling holes doesn't fix anything. Water will still enter the hull. The holes only allows the unwanted water to escape.
We need help from any legal beagle out there to put this together for us.


Good news. I just got a confirmation from Bayliner (Brunswick) that they will install the plugs on each sponsons of my Element.
I just knew that they would come through. It's all about customer service and I'm happy that Brunswick takes customer service seriously.

Now I just have to arrange an appointment with my dealer to get this done. Since my boat is in the water for the season, I will arrange now for a fall appointment.


Nice work. I have drained some water from the port sponson after every boating outing since I've had my sponson drains installed.

Enjoy :)


How much water are you getting?
My boat is in the water for the summer season and only comes out in October. I don't mind a bit of water as long as I can open the new plugs and drain the sponsons in the Fall, preventing ice in there during the winter. I would hate having to haul out the boat weekly just to drain the sponsons.


Maybe 8 fl oz of water per outing

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element Hull Holding Water 24 Jul 2016 16:06 #56

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TigerBoat wrote:

oakplank wrote:

TigerBoat wrote:

oakplank wrote:

oakplank wrote: Is there anyone on BOC that can organize a group representation that we Element owners can sign on to so that we, as a group, can forward our concerns to Bayliner management?
The time is now for Bayliner to acknowledge this issue and submit a fix. Drilling holes doesn't fix anything. Water will still enter the hull. The holes only allows the unwanted water to escape.
We need help from any legal beagle out there to put this together for us.


Good news. I just got a confirmation from Bayliner (Brunswick) that they will install the plugs on each sponsons of my Element.
I just knew that they would come through. It's all about customer service and I'm happy that Brunswick takes customer service seriously.

Now I just have to arrange an appointment with my dealer to get this done. Since my boat is in the water for the season, I will arrange now for a fall appointment.


Nice work. I have drained some water from the port sponson after every boating outing since I've had my sponson drains installed.

Enjoy :)


How much water are you getting?
My boat is in the water for the summer season and only comes out in October. I don't mind a bit of water as long as I can open the new plugs and drain the sponsons in the Fall, preventing ice in there during the winter. I would hate having to haul out the boat weekly just to drain the sponsons.


Maybe 8 fl oz of water per outing


I'm still curious as to where the water is coming from? I looked at the rub-rail on mine and it looks well sealed with a clear sealer. Is there water in the bilge that is splashing into the sponsons when the boat. Is crossing heavy waves? Ill be curious to see how much (if any) water wil come out at the end of the season when they install my plugs.

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Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
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12 foot aluminum fishing boat

Element Hull Holding Water 27 Jul 2016 14:38 #57

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oakplank wrote: I'm still curious as to where the water is coming from? I looked at the rub-rail on mine and it looks well sealed with a clear sealer. Is there water in the bilge that is splashing into the sponsons when the boat. Is crossing heavy waves? Ill be curious to see how much (if any) water will come out at the end of the season when they install my plugs.


If I had to guess; I'd say that the water is likely coming from leaks within / near the fuel tank compartment area. I suspect that if you were to put an excessive amount of water in this space, that a portion of it will drain into the port sponson.

Again, this is only a guess.

I believe that Bayliner has previously stated that the sponson areas are sealed and water will not collect in the sponsons. Based on my own experience, as well as the experience of several others, this is just not the case.

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
Last Edit: by TigerBoat.

Element Hull Holding Water 08 Aug 2016 15:43 #58

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Just had a call from my marina this morning. Double good news. First, the sponson drain plugs are installed and second, they did not find water inside.
These are photos taken after the holes were drilled, but before the drain plugs were installed.

I was so worried that there might have been water trapped in there since late 2013 and that the wood inside was rotten.






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Element Hull Holding Water 09 Aug 2016 17:36 #59

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I mentioned in my previous post above that I suspected that the water may have been getting into the port sponson area of the transom via the gas tank compartment and that I drain a little bit of water out of the port sponson after most outings.

So, I decided to get my marine sealant out (shortly after making my previous post) and seal up all of the suspect looking areas (holes) in my gas tank compartment.

I took the boat out all day on Saturday and Sunday of last weekend (8/6/16 - 8/7/16) for tubing, riding, swimming, etc. After each of these outings, I pulled all 3 plugs and only had water drain from the center garboard drain.

So at this point, no additional water has made it into my sponsons since I applied additional sealant in my gas tank compartment area. B)

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
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Element Hull Holding Water 10 Aug 2016 15:03 #60

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TigerBoat wrote: I mentioned in my previous post above that I suspected that the water may have been getting into the port sponson area of the transom via the gas tank compartment and that I drain a little bit of water out of the port sponson after most outings.

So, I decided to get my marine sealant out (shortly after making my previous post) and seal up all of the suspect looking areas (holes) in my gas tank compartment.

I took the boat out all day on Saturday and Sunday of last weekend (8/6/16 - 8/7/16) for tubing, riding, swimming, etc. After each of these outings, I pulled all 3 plugs and only had water drain from the center garboard drain.

So at this point, no additional water has made it into my sponsons since I applied additional sealant in my gas tank compartment area. B)


Let's see if I understand. You had water entering the port side sponson through the gas tank compartment. You have sealed all the holes and now water no longer enters the port side sponsons. My question: how is water entering the battery compartment and where is the water going now? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just curious.

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12 foot aluminum fishing boat

Element Hull Holding Water 10 Aug 2016 15:39 #61

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oakplank wrote: Let's see if I understand. You had water entering the port side sponson through the gas tank compartment. You have sealed all the holes and now water no longer enters the port side sponsons. My question: how is water entering the battery compartment and where is the water going now? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just curious.


No worries. My "smart ass" detector didn't go off at all, LOL :cheer:

It is possible that I had water entering the port sponson from the port compartment which houses the gas tank. I believe the lower portion of the compartment is supposed to be watertight. This is the area that several folks have complained about having to regularly drain via shop-vac after boat outings. Water gets into the gas tank compartment whenever water is dumped onto the seating area above it (via rain, wet folks, spilled drinks, water toys, etc.). I suspect the lower portion of my port compartment may not have been fully sealed and may have been leaking into the port sponson area below, when water was present. I added a bit of sealant in the lower portion of the compartment in an effort to improve its watertight integrity. I am not yet positive that I have eliminated my port sponson water ingress issue. Time will tell.

The starboard-side battery compartment is a different animal all together. I believe the lower portion of this compartment has been designed to drain/flow straight into the bilge (no fuel there).

Curiosity & questions are welcome!

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
Last Edit: by TigerBoat.

Element Hull Holding Water 10 Aug 2016 17:16 #62

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Thanks TigerBoat for the explanation.
Oakplank

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Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
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12 foot aluminum fishing boat

Element Hull Holding Water 06 Sep 2016 14:20 #63

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oakplank wrote: Thanks TigerBoat for the explanation.
Oakplank


UPDATE: I ended up taking the family out for some boating fun on Saturday of this past labor day weekend. Lots of swimming, riding, etc.

At the end of the day, I pulled my three garboard drain plugs from the transom and again had some water (although not much) drain from the Port sponson.

I am still not sure how this water is getting in.

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
Last Edit: by TigerBoat.

Element Hull Holding Water 06 Sep 2016 16:23 #64

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Bayliner has come up with a solution to get the water out by installing the additional drain plugs. However, they have not come up with the reason that water is getting in nor a fix so that water will not enter going forward. WHY? Like someone posted, remove the sponson drain plug and blow smoke in there and see where the smoke leaks out.
It's obvious that Bayliner is aware of the issue, by installing the drain plugs. Is the next step not fixing the problem?
I'm glad that Bayliner has provided a way to drain the water with the additional drains. But, I would be happier if there would be no water getting in there in the first place.
This lack of a fix can back-fire with lost sales for this, otherwise, great boat.

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Element Hull Holding Water 06 Sep 2016 17:30 #65

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Drained about a gallon of water from the midline drain on Monday. (element '15, 160, 75) Most I've ever noticed in the past. Haven't drilled for water yet. waiting a little later in the month to remove the depth finder unit to see what drains before I mount smart tabs. Maybe want have to spend so much time at the dealer in October if I needs Drain instillation.

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Element Hull Holding Water 06 Sep 2016 17:36 #66

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oakplank wrote: I'm glad that Bayliner has provided a way to drain the water with the additional drains. But, I would be happier if there would be no water getting in there in the first place.


I'd also be happier if it wasn't getting in there at all. I honestly thought I had this issue fixed though when I added additional sealant to the lower portion of the compartment where the gas tank is stored.

I may have to look into using smoke to track down the leak path...

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element Hull Holding Water 06 Dec 2016 00:31 #67

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Hello everyone. First post. Upgraded from an aging 1995 seadoo speedster to a 2016 element 160 with the 75hp 4 blade. This topic has me concerned, and is so far the only negative I've seen about the boat. I did notice shotty silicone under the rub rail, boat is brand new not been in water yet.

For all of you wondering, I think I can say the transom contains wood, I'm not happy with that. Coming from a 100% fiberglass boat. I happened to look in where the bilge is and found sawdust, I'm assuming from the motor mount.

My question has anyone figured anything g out on this aside from drains? A tap with a finger and can easily tell there is a difference in material from sponson and transom vs hull.

I tried adding a picture but the file is too large.

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Element Hull Holding Water 08 Dec 2016 18:40 #68

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undieingbreed wrote: Hello everyone. First post. Upgraded from an aging 1995 seadoo speedster to a 2016 element 160 with the 75hp 4 blade. This topic has me concerned, and is so far the only negative I've seen about the boat. I did notice shotty silicone under the rub rail, boat is brand new not been in water yet.

For all of you wondering, I think I can say the transom contains wood, I'm not happy with that. Coming from a 100% fiberglass boat. I happened to look in where the bilge is and found sawdust, I'm assuming from the motor mount.

My question has anyone figured anything g out on this aside from drains? A tap with a finger and can easily tell there is a difference in material from sponson and transom vs hull.

I tried adding a picture but the file is too large.


Hey man i got a 94 speedster. the same as your 95. I'm considering a element 160 also. How do you like it? Room wise how big of a upgrade was it? how do they compare?

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Element Hull Holding Water 09 Dec 2016 00:34 #69

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I sold the speedster about 3 months ago. Sweet little boat, we had a blast with it but 4 adults was cramped.

I have not been on the water yet, just bought the element. But space wise.... wow, no comparison. Remember that 15' speedster is really 10-11' because the engine hatch, so off the bat a boat 1' bigger is really 5 feet bigger. Also gas will be great, going from a 27 gallon to a 12!!

Towing is similar, the element with the 75hp is give or take 3-400 lbs heavier, about the max comfortable tow for our older jeeps.

I can tell you from playing with the steering I may cry a bit. No more 1/2 turn of the steering wheel whiplash, takes about twice the input to control the outboard.

Care wise, even in the garage, my goodness, no more upside down maintenance. The radio is plenty for a bare option. A 6' person can just lay down across the back pad of the element.

I will however add, I always had water in the seadoo, I never cared, it's all fiberglass.. this one has wood, so well see.

The main thing that pushed us was the motors were needing some love and we didn't use it enough because we couldn't fit people. Now we can sit 6 people, a cooler, radio and drinks.

The lifetime warranty, and verification that this water issue will be covered has me worrying less.
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Element Hull Holding Water 09 Dec 2016 11:42 #70

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Again, the wood will be kiln dried treated wood and will resist rot if water is present.
Doug

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Dec 2016 14:16 #71

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worm wrote: Drained about a gallon of water from the midline drain on Monday. (element '15, 160, 75) Most I've ever noticed in the past. Haven't drilled for water yet. waiting a little later in the month to remove the depth finder unit to see what drains before I mount smart tabs. Maybe want have to spend so much time at the dealer in October if I needs Drain instillation.


Worm, just noticed you drained a gallon from the bilge area....... sounds totally normal...... just use the pump next time, itll be less than a gallon :evil:

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Element Hull Holding Water 19 Dec 2016 22:58 #72

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Is your boat the XL and if it is what are the smart tabs you used. I'm interested in putting them on. Thanks Tony

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Element Hull Holding Water 20 Dec 2016 01:26 #73

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tonyglock40 wrote: Is your boat the XL and if it is what are the smart tabs you used. I'm interested in putting them on. Thanks Tony

Tony, I put a se400 hydrofoil on my xl. It turned it into a completely different boat. No cavitation at all. I did lose about 2 miles per hour of top speed. It doesn't bother me for what I gained.

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Element Hull Holding Water 20 Dec 2016 16:18 #74

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mrjeff wrote:

tonyglock40 wrote: Is your boat the XL and if it is what are the smart tabs you used. I'm interested in putting them on. Thanks Tony

Tony, I put a se400 hydrofoil on my xl. It turned it into a completely different boat. No cavitation at all. I did lose about 2 miles per hour of top speed. It doesn't bother me for what I gained.


Does the hydrofoil add RPMs to the speed ratio? In another words, will I have a higher RPM at 30 mph compared without the hydrofoil?

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Element Hull Holding Water 20 Dec 2016 17:53 #75

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oakplank wrote:

mrjeff wrote:

tonyglock40 wrote: Is your boat the XL and if it is what are the smart tabs you used. I'm interested in putting them on. Thanks Tony

Tony, I put a se400 hydrofoil on my xl. It turned it into a completely different boat. No cavitation at all. I did lose about 2 miles per hour of top speed. It doesn't bother me for what I gained.


Does the hydrofoil add RPMs to the speed ratio? In another words, will I have a higher RPM at 30 mph compared without the hydrofoil?

I don't have a tach, so I never checked it that way.

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