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TOPIC: Element Hull Holding Water

Element Hull Holding Water 09 Jun 2016 16:26 #26

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I wonder if water will just continue to accumulate in there for ever or is there a limit as to how much water will get in?
I don't intend on installing tabs and don't want to drill holes unless I know there's water in there.
BTW where is the water coming from? If I knew that I would check to see if it's sealed properly. This is the third summer with the boat in the lake for the season (covered when not in use).
My concern is that water freezing while in storage for the winter causing unseen damage to the inner hull.
If water comes in you either stop it from coming in or you find a way for it to escape.
I wish Bayliner would man-up and send out a bulletin to all Element owners and dealers admiting there is a problem and offering a solution. Are the hulls not quarantee for life.

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Element Hull Holding Water 09 Jun 2016 17:05 #27

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I can only assume the water is coming in one of two places...a poorly sealed area along the rub rail or through a large enough "crack" in the flooring somewhere inside the boat. I installed smart tabs after my second season...so I think I'm ok, but I'd thoroughly look underneath the rub rails to ensure they are sealed tightly and then look around on the floor for any large crack or hole that could be the source of water penetration. I agree...I would not want to drill a hole just to check! Good luck to all and yes, let's home Bayliner gives us some info on this situation.

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Element Hull Holding Water 09 Jun 2016 18:09 #28

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efarstad wrote: I can only assume the water is coming in one of two places...a poorly sealed area along the rub rail or through a large enough "crack" in the flooring somewhere inside the boat. I installed smart tabs after my second season...so I think I'm ok, but I'd thoroughly look underneath the rub rails to ensure they are sealed tightly and then look around on the floor for any large crack or hole that could be the source of water penetration. I agree...I would not want to drill a hole just to check! Good luck to all and yes, let's home Bayliner gives us some info on this situation.


I could see a bad seal at the seam where the rubrail is installed due to improper manufacturing process. But, a crack in the floor. How can that many Elements have cracked floors?

Bayliner, wake up before this escalates to a major recall and bad press.

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Element Hull Holding Water 09 Jun 2016 21:35 #29

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oakplank wrote: I wonder if water will just continue to accumulate in there for ever or is there a limit as to how much water will get in?

My concern is that water freezing while in storage for the winter causing unseen damage to the inner hull.
If water comes in you either stop it from coming in or you find a way for it to escape.


Yes, freezing water expansion will likely damage the boat.

But, what about rot? I can't imagine that these areas within the transom have been designed to cope with holding water for extended periods of time :S

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Element Hull Holding Water 10 Jun 2016 14:13 #30

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efarstad wrote: I can only assume the water is coming in one of two places...a poorly sealed area along the rub rail or through a large enough "crack" in the flooring somewhere inside the boat. I installed smart tabs after my second season...so I think I'm ok, but I'd thoroughly look underneath the rub rails to ensure they are sealed tightly and then look around on the floor for any large crack or hole that could be the source of water penetration. I agree...I would not want to drill a hole just to check! Good luck to all and yes, let's home Bayliner gives us some info on this situation.


What about that access panel just aft of the fuel tank?

Have you (or anyone else) taken a look in there to see if there are potential paths for water to get where it shouldn't? That panel is certainly not watertight.

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Element Hull Holding Water 10 Jun 2016 16:03 #31

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Again, Bayliner's engineers should find the source of the problem and come up with a remedy which should be sent to all Element owners and dealers. They need to stop the water from entering that area, not telling us how to let it out.
If the roof leaks on your new house, you don't expect the builder to tell you that the solution is to put a bucket on the floor to capture the water.
Maybe it's time for all Element owners to group together and send our concerns to Bayliner as one with copies to the boating world (various boating magazines). They are obviously ignoring the issue with their reply to put a hole in our boats to let the water out. That doesn't fix the problem.

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Element Hull Holding Water 10 Jun 2016 16:35 #32

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oakplank wrote: Again, Bayliner's engineers should find the source of the problem and come up with a remedy which should be sent to all Element owners and dealers. They need to stop the water from entering that area, not telling us how to let it out.
If the roof leaks on your new house, you don't expect the builder to tell you that the solution is to put a bucket on the floor to capture the water.
Maybe it's time for all Element owners to group together and send our concerns to Bayliner as one with copies to the boating world (various boating magazines). They are obviously ignoring the issue with their reply to put a hole in our boats to let the water out. That doesn't fix the problem.


For a boat that keep in the water for the season that water will sit and build up for months. All the extra weight can't be good.

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Element Hull Holding Water 15 Jun 2016 19:09 #33

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For those of you wondering what the area behind the gas locker looks like, here is a picture one of our fellow Element owners snapped:



As you can see...it's just a flat area, similar to the other side that contains the battery. So unless there are cracks somewhere...I doubt water can seep into the transom.

I hope this is helpful to some.

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Element Hull Holding Water 15 Jun 2016 23:36 #34

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Thanks for the photo. looks like the place where the gas tank is located has wood underneath and that piece of wood doesn't look like its securely sealed (I can see the wood in this photo) thats how the water soak into the stringers area near to the transom. this area need to be sealed much better.

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Last Edit: by tito123tito.

Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2016 00:34 #35

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Just went to install Depth finder and sure enough after drilling holes on Starboard side water came out just like pictures on earlier post. Will Bayliner pay to have drain plugs installed? Mine sat all winter with water in them I assume, hopefully didn't damage anything else. Some one made mention that this area is wood and not even fiberglassed? I sure hope that is not true.

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2016 01:22 #36

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Is there anyone on BOC that can organize a group representation that we Element owners can sign on to so that we, as a group, can forward our concerns to Bayliner management?
The time is now for Bayliner to acknowledge this issue and submit a fix. Drilling holes doesn't fix anything. Water will still enter the hull. The holes only allows the unwanted water to escape.
We need help from any legal beagle out there to put this together for us.

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2016 02:15 #37

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Just tried to submit question with concerns to Bayliner Customer Support and got this strange error? Anyone else try this? Thanks

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2016 02:17 #38

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Element_Dan wrote: Just tried to submit question with concerns to Bayliner Customer Support and got this strange error? Anyone else try this? Thanks


Well, I guess you cant read in picture I attached, but its "The Owner this form has exceeded quota for form submittals for June? What the heck doe that mean?

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2016 15:08 #39

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Element_Dan wrote: Just went to install Depth finder and sure enough after drilling holes on Starboard side water came out just like pictures on earlier post. Will Bayliner pay to have drain plugs installed? Mine sat all winter with water in them I assume, hopefully didn't damage anything else. Some one made mention that this area is wood and not even fiberglassed? I sure hope that is not true.


My Element 160 is currently with the dealer having the port and starboard sponson garboard drains installed.

I will post a pic once I get her back.

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2016 18:04 #40

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Okay, I talked with both Bayliner Support andMarina today about the two issues I have.

1st - Water in Sponson area. BL realizes water is getting in there but don't seem overly concerned. The tech stated there is absolutely very little wood used in the Element and the wood used is Greenwood which is a pressure treated wood made for marine use and very resistant to rotting even if exposed to water. He noted dealers, when working with Bayliner Customer Support, will install drains on each Sponson if customer is seeing water there and/or concerned with it. This is not a big deal to me to have extra plugs, I was more worried about exposed wood in these areas. Tech support ensured there is no worry of that, any wood in there is Greenwood and covered with Fiberglass.

2nd- Cracks on the deck. BL realizes this is happening on some boats and tech stated it was from gel-coat that may be applier too thick and cause cracks as it cures. Again, tech was not concerned about it structurally and noted dealer will sand and re-apply jell coat in areas of crack. Again, stated that boat is 95 % fiberglass and not worry about wood that is boat. The only wood is used for bracing and that it coated.

3rd - Water in the Gas Tank area. BL knows about this, but really don't have fix other than you will need to vacuum out if water gets in there. Yes, bit of a pain but no big deal. Their hands are tied since this is portable tank and concerns of gas getting in there if customers fill while still in boat.

Although I'm not overly happy about the issues, they were very upfront and willing to help fix issues under warranty. I've documented everything of course in-case I keep boat for years and this causes issue in future. They did remind the boat structure and hull have lifetime warranty.

Just wanted to update everyone. I really do love this boat other than the couple oddities mentioned. I can't find similar boat this size (need to fit in my garage) and has this much room along with being able to pull skiers for under 20K.

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2016 18:07 #41

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TigerBoat wrote:

Element_Dan wrote: Just went to install Depth finder and sure enough after drilling holes on Starboard side water came out just like pictures on earlier post. Will Bayliner pay to have drain plugs installed? Mine sat all winter with water in them I assume, hopefully didn't damage anything else. Some one made mention that this area is wood and not even fiberglassed? I sure hope that is not true.


My Element 160 is currently with the dealer having the port and starboard sponson garboard drains installed.

I will post a pic once I get her back.


Let us know if Bayliner will be paying for the parts and labor.

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Element Hull Holding Water 17 Jun 2016 14:33 #42

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oakplank wrote:

TigerBoat wrote:

Element_Dan wrote: Just went to install Depth finder and sure enough after drilling holes on Starboard side water came out just like pictures on earlier post. Will Bayliner pay to have drain plugs installed? Mine sat all winter with water in them I assume, hopefully didn't damage anything else. Some one made mention that this area is wood and not even fiberglassed? I sure hope that is not true.


My Element 160 is currently with the dealer having the port and starboard sponson garboard drains installed.

I will post a pic once I get her back.


Let us know if Bayliner will be paying for the parts and labor.


Bayliner is paying for these to be installed by my dealer :)

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Element Hull Holding Water 17 Jun 2016 19:01 #43

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Does anyone know if this affects both Element 160 and Element 180 (XL)? Everything I have seen has been about the 160.
thank you.
Christopher

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Element Hull Holding Water 17 Jun 2016 23:23 #44

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How do they install these plugs from the outside only? They obviously can't get inside that area or we would all be able to see and pump the water out.
I hope they are not just screwing the plug into the outer stern with nothing at the back end to prevent the plug housing from falling out.
Should I assume they know what they are doing!!!

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Last Edit: by oakplank.

Element Hull Holding Water 18 Jun 2016 13:10 #45

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xxtoon wrote: Does anyone know if this affects both Element 160 and Element 180 (XL)? Everything I have seen has been about the 160.
thank you.
Christopher


I have the same question as Christopher. Does it affect the XL models also?
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Element Hull Holding Water 20 Jun 2016 13:36 #46

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TigerBoat wrote:

Element_Dan wrote: Just went to install Depth finder and sure enough after drilling holes on Starboard side water came out just like pictures on earlier post. Will Bayliner pay to have drain plugs installed? Mine sat all winter with water in them I assume, hopefully didn't damage anything else. Some one made mention that this area is wood and not even fiberglassed? I sure hope that is not true.


My Element 160 is currently with the dealer having the port and starboard sponson garboard drains installed.

I will post a pic once I get her back.


Check out my transom layout above. Three garboard drains, Smart-tabs, 4-blade Spitfire prop (13.4 x 15p) and the 75hp Merc outboard. The boat performs like a dream.

Feel free to ask questions. Go.

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
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Element Hull Holding Water 21 Jun 2016 05:22 #47

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Thanks for sharing. What trim tabs u got, 40lb or 60 lb?

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Element Hull Holding Water 21 Jun 2016 12:36 #48

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They are: Nauticus Smart Tabs SX 9.5" x 10" w/60lb Actuator - White

www.amazon.com/Nauticus-Smart-Tabs-60lb-...+nauticus+smart+tabs

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element Hull Holding Water 07 Jul 2016 13:32 #49

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Last night I installed Smart Tabs 60 lbs on my 2016 Element XL. The good news is I did not have any water.

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Element Hull Holding Water 07 Jul 2016 14:57 #50

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xxtoon wrote: Last night I installed Smart Tabs 60 lbs on my 2016 Element XL.


Hey xxtoon,

What speed(s) are you seeing when using your XL? How fast can she typically go when you take her out, and what is your preferred cruising speed?

Thanks in advance!

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
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